Fate of the Skybreakers post WaT

[Atlas333]

What do we think happened to the Skybreakers? I see two possibilities

1. The refounded oathpact becomes common knowledge and the skybreakers learn Nale flipped. I could see them following his example. (Additionally, Szeth could potentially become the new leader of the skybreakers assuming he doesn't go into retirement.)

2. The refounded oathpact doesn't become common knowledge and the skybreakers stay loyal to odium. If this is the case, how useful will they be without stormlight? Will the high spren be ordered to be enlightened so they can use war light?

No matter what I'm sure there will be skybreakers on either side of the conflict now that they don't have Nale to settle disputes and differing interpretations of the law.

Edited December 18, 2024 by Atlas333

[+robardin he/him]

I don't see how news of the New Oathpact could get out, as there were no non-Herald witnesses to it. Szeth was unconscious and Nightblood in an Investiture coma.

It would have to be some spren like The Wind to tell people, but as we learned from the epigraph selections of Knights of Wind and Truth, the Wind has not spoken to anyone since. And its author, Szeth's wife, even personally helped Szeth to bury Kaladin's body with burned-out eyes, assuming he had been killed by Ishu before vanishing with the other Heralds and all the Honorblades (well, excepting Jezrien's, which hadn't been there).

The only account of what happened with them was from what Nightblood told Szeth, who thought they were ended by Retribution (and their Honorblades subsumed, I suppose):

Quote

Gone, Nightblood said. I felt them being destroyed by... by something powerful, Szeth. Something amazingly powerful. More powerful than anything I've ever felt. A new god. That is him, in the sky.

 

[Elite01]

I agree, I don’t think the skybreakers will know what happened to Nale. With that said I think there will likely be schisms amongst the skybreakers. Some will follow retribution but without Nale around to keep the order together some splinter groups could form

[+robardin he/him]

1 minute ago, Elite01 said:

I agree, I don’t think the skybreakers will know what happened to Nale. With that said I think there will likely be schisms amongst the skybreakers. Some will follow retribution but without Nale around to keep the order together some splinter groups could form

In addition, with Nale's disappearance, some of Skybreakers who had sworn to follow Nale personally as their Third Ideal -- though Nale himself did not recommend it to Szeth -- might be "cut loose" from following the dictates of the Singers.

After all, even Nale himself admitted he was "rooting for them to lose" because he was still a Herald of Honor and all, and so opposed to them, but just kind of HAD to do what they said because they had the better claim to ruling Roshar. Which does some kind of nuts, and if the only reason these Skybreakers were following suit was because of their Third Ideal oath to do as he did, well he's gone now, eh?

[alder24]

19 hours ago, Atlas333 said:

What do we think happened to the Skybreakers? I see two possibilities

1. The refounded oathpact becomes common knowledge and the skybreakers learn Nale flipped. I could see them following his example. (Additionally, Szeth could potentially become the new leader of the skybreakers assuming he doesn't go into retirement.)

2. The refounded oathpact doesn't become common knowledge and the skybreakers stay loyal to odium. If this is the case, how useful will they be without stormlight? Will the high spren be ordered to be enlightened so they can use war light?

No matter what I'm sure there will be skybreakers on either side of the conflict now that they don't have Nale to settle disputes and differing interpretations of the law.

I think that if they were to somehow learn that Nale rejoined the Oathpact, they would abandon retribution. Many might join Urithiru or some other neutral party, but I think most might search for the dissenters just like Szeth. The dissenters will become a bigger faction in the future either way.

[+Oltux72 he/him]

On 12/18/2024 at 8:20 PM, Atlas333 said:

No matter what I'm sure there will be skybreakers on either side of the conflict now that they don't have Nale to settle disputes and differing interpretations of the law.

Which conflict? I am sorry, but this is important. The contest has happened. Very few, if any at all, Skybreakers denied the validity of the contract between Odium and Honor's representative. El followed it. Retribution followed it.

The original question has become moot. A valid peace treaty has ended the war. Now the treaty needs to be followed. I am afraid the Skybreakers will be almost unanimous in that regard.

[Treamayne]

I hope that the "rebel" Skybreakers Nale mentioned return in his absence and start helping the Order find their lost roots and original Oaths. Even if the truth of the reforged Oathpact isn't widely known it's possible that Nales spren could get information from the SR vision to the other highspren. . . (using Connection shenanigans to Navani contacting Sibling from inside a vision). 

On 12/18/2024 at 2:20 PM, Atlas333 said:

Will the high spren be ordered to be enlightened so they can use war light?

What makes you think they cannot use Warlight now? Radiants use Towerlight (mix of Storm and Life Lights), but it does not hold as well, vanishes quickly outside of the tower where it is perpetually renewed. Warlight (mix of Storm and Void Lights) should be the same - useable, but not as efficient, vanishes quickly without an easy source. The problem is that only Venli's Listeners know that you can pray for Warlight at midnight to fill spheres (and Venli will probably not notice a difference, since she already has a valid Connection to both Stormlight and Voidlight, but Jaxlim does not have a Voidspren in her Gemheart - so she'll probably be the first Radiant to test using Warlight). 

[QuantumAce]

42 minutes ago, Oltux72 said:

Which conflict? I am sorry, but this is important. The contest has happened. Very few, if any at all, Skybreakers denied the validity of the contract between Odium and Honor's representative. El followed it. Retribution followed it.

The original question has become moot. A valid peace treaty has ended the war. Now the treaty needs to be followed. I am afraid the Skybreakers will be almost unanimous in that regard.

The end of a war does not end all conflict. I It may be on a far smaller scale, but I expect to see ongoing clashes between the forces of retribution and Urithiru. We also have territories neither side directly controlled at the time of the conflict, and could see the rise of previously unaffiliated groups. 

Even in times of peace, a group of people that can fly and destroy tor degrade matter are pretty useful.  

 

 

[+Oltux72 he/him]

14 hours ago, QuantumAce said:

The end of a war does not end all conflict. I It may be on a far smaller scale, but I expect to see ongoing clashes between the forces of retribution and Urithiru. We also have territories neither side directly controlled at the time of the conflict, and could see the rise of previously unaffiliated groups. 

Even in times of peace, a group of people that can fly and destroy tor degrade matter are pretty useful.

It seems to me that a Skybreaker would be required to uphold a peace treaty, hence they are against the side breaking it. If that is a gray area, I would expect them to stay mostly neutral, as they are aware that not everything is a question of law.

[QuantumAce]

12 hours ago, Oltux72 said:

It seems to me that a Skybreaker would be required to uphold a peace treaty, hence they are against the side breaking it. If that is a gray area, I would expect them to stay mostly neutral, as they are aware that not everything is a question of law.

They can be mostly neutral in any area that has been universally agreed upon as a grey area, but that would be boring. Fortunately there a multitude of other scenarios where groups of Skybreakers could have different interpretations of who is at fault for violating the peace treaty, or even whether specific conflicts are a violation of the treaty. Brandon left plenty of room to position the Skybreakers in multiple groups on either side of the conflict, but I expect to see the alignment of the dissenters as a significant plot point. 

[MagicMaggot]

Are we getting a new Skybreaker pov, now that Szeth and Nale are gone? Else I doubt we'll really dive into it, just like we know very, very little about the other non-pov-orders. Which would make me suspect the status quo, with the Skybreakers upholding singer law on ancestral singer lands and thus serving Retribution, who will likely have his ways to keep his own troops functional. 

[Nitpicking]

2 hours ago, MagicMaggot said:

Are we getting a new Skybreaker pov, now that Szeth and Nale are gone? Else I doubt we'll really dive into it, just like we know very, very little about the other non-pov-orders. Which would make me suspect the status quo, with the Skybreakers upholding singer law on ancestral singer lands and thus serving Retribution, who will likely have his ways to keep his own troops functional. 

Szeth is planning to join up with the rebel Skybreakers.

[MagicMaggot]

8 hours ago, Nitpicking said:

Szeth is planning to join up with the rebel Skybreakers.

Ah, thanks, I must have missed that somehow. 

And I can't say I like it in the least. Szeth  up for another order of lawkeepers whose principles he doesn't even know at that point? I thought it was about not having to kill anymore, at least in part. I mean, it makes sense that the author would drag him into the action again, sooner or later, but at that moment? Hrm.

Oh well, but yeah, that answers my question about the Skybreaker pov... partially at least, considering we have no idea where those Skybreakers are supposed to have gone, or did I miss the hints on that one as well? If I didn't, I don't think he will find them in the offscreen years, he still has a wife to woo anyways, so this pov will probybly not help in establishing the Nale-Skybreakers starting position in book 6.

[Nitpicking]

2 hours ago, MagicMaggot said:

Ah, thanks, I must have missed that somehow. 

And I can't say I like it in the least. Szeth  up for another order of lawkeepers whose principles he doesn't even know at that point? I thought it was about not having to kill anymore, at least in part. I mean, it makes sense that the author would drag him into the action again, sooner or later, but at that moment? Hrm.

Oh well, but yeah, that answers my question about the Skybreaker pov... partially at least, considering we have no idea where those Skybreakers are supposed to have gone, or did I miss the hints on that one as well? If I didn't, I don't think he will find them in the offscreen years, he still has a wife to woo anyways, so this pov will probybly not help in establishing the Nale-Skybreakers starting position in book 6.

I'm not thrilled, myself. The rebels are yet another secret society, but this one pops out of nowhere for plot convenience. It's pretty deus ex machina.

[Treamayne]

3 hours ago, MagicMaggot said:

Ah, thanks, I must have missed that somehow. 

WaT Ch 135:

Spoiler

Szeth nodded. “You are the wrong spren for me, I’m afraid.”

“What?”

“If I am to choose, I do not choose you. The Skybreakers under Nin are wrong and as corrupted as Ishu’s touch on this land. You care not for people, only for rules. I do not care for your training styles, your philosophies, or the ‘truths’ you tell yourselves.” He paused, considering the next action, and decided it was right. “I will seek out the dissenters who live the old ways of the Skybreakers. There, I will find another spren. I release you from your bond. I wish we could have been friends.”

Immediately, Szeth felt a ripping sensation.

Hope that helps.