Wind and Truth: Wells (Dawnshard Spoilers, can I do that?)

[M0rdak]

Soooooo 

If, let's say, Chasmfiends seek out the Shattered Plains for the "power" from a "well" (sorry I'm paraphrasing but feel free to correct me, plus we don't exactly know whose well that is but we're assuming it's Honor's right?) then would that put the third one in Aimia? I've seen people saying it's likely in Shin but Chiri-chiri needed to go to Aimia, is that bc of the power 'leak' from the Dawnshard or is it the same as the Shattered Plains bc they're drawn to the rhythms of Roshar? And would that mean they now have to find Rysn if it's from the DS?

[alder24]

1 hour ago, M0rdak said:

Soooooo 

If, let's say, Chasmfiends seek out the Shattered Plains for the "power" from a "well" (sorry I'm paraphrasing but feel free to correct me, plus we don't exactly know whose well that is but we're assuming it's Honor's right?) then would that put the third one in Aimia? I've seen people saying it's likely in Shin but Chiri-chiri needed to go to Aimia, is that bc of the power 'leak' from the Dawnshard or is it the same as the Shattered Plains bc they're drawn to the rhythms of Roshar? And would that mean they now have to find Rysn if it's from the DS?

Hello, welcome to the Shard.

The well below Narak is Odium's/Retribution's well. Honor's perpendicularity is unstable and it moves randomly across Roshar - Jasnah in WoR epilogue used it to go back to the Physical Realm. Cultivation's perpendicularity was in the Horneater's peaks. Now with Retribution being formed and with Cultivation out of the system, it's very likely that only one perpendicularity - the one under Narak - will remain on Roshar. 

We know that the reason for Larkins returning to Aimia is because only there exist a very special and potent type of Mandra, which they need to bond to fly. Dawnshards aren't like Shardpools - they don't leak. They are a weapon, a Command of vast power that existed way before Shards. Perpendicularities are a concentration point for investiture that leaks from the Spiritual Realm due to a Shardic presence in the world. 

WaT ch 90:

Quote

“All three have one of these?” Thude asked, dipping his axe again. “Honor, Cultivation, and Odium?”
“Honor’s pool moves around,” Venli said. “No one knows where Odium’s is. At least … no one did. The Fused talked about it, that Odium doesn’t trust anyone to know its location, after an event they wouldn’t speak of.”
It had been hidden, at least until now. Until …

Dawnshard ch 19:

Quote

“Larger greatshells need to bond mandras—you call them luckspren—to keep from crushing themselves to death with their own weight. The mandras of this place are special. Smaller, yet more potent, than the common breeds. It is no simple thing to make a creature as heavy as a lancer—or larkin, as they are now called—fly. Chiri-Chiri will need to return every few years until she is fully grown.”

Arcanum Unbounded the Dromidad System essay (not really a spoiler, just information about perpendicularities):

Spoiler

Quote

In general, perpendicularities are created by the presence of a Shard on the planet. The concentration of so much Investiture on the Cognitive and Physical Realms creates points of… friction, where a kind of tunneling exists. At these points, Physical matter, Cognitive thought, and Spiritual essence become one—and a being can slide between Realms.
The existence of a perpendicularity (which often take the form of pools of concentrated power on the Physical Realm) on a planet is a hallmark of a Shard’s presence

 

 

Spoiler

BlackYeti

Can I ask you about the body of a Shard in the Physical Realm? About the different states of matter. What determines the state of matter that they are in? Because I've been reading the bits very carefully, and I haven't noticed much in terms of temperature difference.

Brandon Sanderson

The idea for me working on this was that they transcend-- They permeate everything, right? They permeate all life on all the Realms. And that there are manifestations of them that leak out, and it's kind of like they make-- they appear there in the various states but-- When you say that you've got the gas, you've got the liquid, you've got the solid: but you've also got inside of you, and inside of that plant, and like-- they're everywhere. And so what determines it? In my head it's just like when some of that power permeates, some of it distills, just like water. There's some water in the air, there's some that freezes: that's temperature. But it's not always temperature whether it's in the air, or whether it's falling. Imagine a Spiritual version of humidity, that is influenced by what's happening on the Spiritual Realm and the Cognitive, and that's what you'll get.

Manchester signing (Aug. 6, 2014)

 

[M0rdak]

I completely forgot about the mandras, that's right

[Misterakko he/him]

At a guess, the event is Ba-Ado-Mashram’s partaking of the pool to become a minor god during the False Desolation.

Quote

“Honor’s pool moves around,” Venli said. “No one knows where Odium’s is. At least … no one did. The Fused talked about it, that Odium doesn’t trust anyone to know its location, after an event they wouldn’t speak of.”

Edited December 24, 2024 by Misterakko

[Leuthie]

On 12/24/2024 at 10:23 AM, Misterakko said:

At a guess, the event is Ba-Ado-Mashram’s partaking of the pool to become a minor god during the False Desolation.

The event was the shattering of the Shattered Plains. Honor attacked Odium and a resonance was created with Odium's perpendicularity that destroyed the largest city and created the Shattered Plains. See Honor's story chapters.

[teknopathetic he/him]

They say Honour’s well moves, making me think it’s connected to the moons somehow.
 

I wonder if Taravangian is allowed to use his Odium well. It’s owned by the singers now, so no? 

and if that is the case, I wonder if Honour’s well is allowed to merge with Odium’s. I’d guess no since the power has agreed to not interfere with land it doesn’t own. So, my guess is Honour’s well is still around too. 

Edited December 26, 2024 by teknopathetic

[Treamayne]

4 hours ago, teknopathetic said:

and if that is the case, I wonder if Honour’s well is allowed to merge with Odium’s. I’d guess no since the power has agreed to not interfere with land it doesn’t own. So, my guess is Honour’s well is still around too. 

This was shown in-story. Ch 146:

Spoiler

Venli ran past him to the building where, using Retribution’s gifted Light, she’d secretly made a passage downward, and had found the underground pool to be empty.

Now, with her mother and Bila, she reached the pool and found the strange too-thick liquid returning. Welling up from the ground. The color was different, a brilliant black-blue. A new tone accompanied it, pulsing to a new rhythm. The … Rhythm of War? She knew its name instinctively.

“What does it mean?” Thude asked

Hope that helps

[Nitpicking]

Above, people talk about Honor's Perpendicularity moving around. Remember, Dalinar used to explicitly open "Honor's Perpendicularity". And he moves around ...

[Isilel]

On 12/16/2024 at 11:17 PM, alder24 said:

Honor's perpendicularity is unstable and it moves randomly across Roshar - Jasnah in WoR epilogue used it to go back to the Physical Realm.

 

I thought that she used her Surge of Transportation in a spot where crossing between the realms was easier for some reason? Shouldn't Honor's Perpendicularity have been in the middle of a highstorm?

I have always wondered why worldhoppers didn't use it to cross to the Physical  farther west, where highstorms were weak enough not to be life-threatening

Edited December 30, 2024 by Isilel

[Treamayne]

3 hours ago, Isilel said:

I thought that she used her Surge of Transportation in a spot where crossing between the realms was easier for some reason? Shouldn't Honor's Perpendicularity have been in the middle of a highstorm?

I have always wondered why worldhoppers didn't use it to cross to the Physical  farther west, where highstorms were weak enough not to be life-threatening

I do not know if you have read the deleted scene or not (Jasnah - WoR) but her skill and Oaths were not yet strong enough to Elsecall from Shadesmar to the Physical Realm (plus, she was out of Stormlight when she arrived). She used Honor's Perpendicularity (clarified by WoB, called "transfer point" in text) because she needed a point where the Cognitive and Physical realm touched (the definition of a Perpendicularity). OB Ch 33:

Spoiler

“All Radiants have an attachment to Shadesmar,” Jasnah said. “Our spren originate there, and our bond ties us to them. But my order has special control over moving between realms. I was able to shift to Shadesmar to escape my would-be assassins.”

“And that helped with the knife in your storming chest?”

“No,” Jasnah said. “But surely by now you’ve learned the value of a little Stormlight when it comes to bodily wounds?”

Of course she had, and she could probably have guessed all of this. But for some reason she didn’t want to accept that. She wanted to remain annoyed at Jasnah.

“My true difficulty was not escaping, but returning,” Jasnah said. “My powers make it easy to transfer to Shadesmar, but getting back to this realm is no small feat. I had to find a transfer point—a place where Shadesmar and our realm touch—which is far, far more difficult than one might assume. 

WoB:

Quote

Edited for length, Relevance and Mistborn Spoilers removed:

Brandon Sanderson

Okay, he knows, so… We'll move on. *general outcry* Okay, fine. Umm, at the end of Words of Radiance.

Argent

There has to be one there because Jasnah has to leave somehow, right?

Brandon Sanderson

Yes, but Honor's Perpendicularity moves.

Questioner

Woah...so...Highstorm?

Brandon Sanderson

*makes non-committal noises*

Arcanum Unbounded Chicago signing (Dec. 6, 2016)

 

It's implied that Honor's Perpendicularity is only part of the Highstorm during the Highstorm, and otherwise is found unpredictably elsewhere on the continent when there is no active Highstorm. 

[Isilel]

1 hour ago, Treamayne said:

Honor's Perpendicularity is only part of the Highstorm during the Highstorm,

My understanding is that the highstorm was permanently circling the planet and Honor's Perpendicularity moved with it. There was always a highstorm _somewhere_. 

I took the "transfer point" for a place where Physical and Cognitive were particularly close for some reason. IMHO, if Jasnah meant Honor's Perpendicularity, she would have called it such. And yes, I read her deleted scene and IIRC it mentions something along those lines.

As for stormlight, I assumed that she managed to acquire some, along with the other gear she had when she re-appeared. As an Elsecaller accomplished at Transformation, I assume that she is great at high quality manifesting in Shadesmar and that she traded these services for stuff that she needed to survive and get back.