Lines on a Map

[Elder]

So, the political situation on Roshar.  Let’s hash this out:

90% of the continent belongs to Retribution’s Singer coalition including:

- a Conquered Alethkar

- a conquered Herdaz… though I’m not sure what happened at the end of that Interlude. Did the greatshell eat the Mink? Rescue him? Give him a ride out?  I think Retribution would have included it in his musings if they’d liberated it in the end.

- A defected Yah Keved… I didn’t hear about any particular concessions they got out of it. Taravangian seems to have given them to Odium as part of his deal to save Karbranth.  They probably have control over the kingdoms between Jah Keved and Azir by virtue of Conquest… I wonder how much sway they have over the Valley, especially now that Cultivation is gone.

- a willingly surrendered Iri and Rira, who were definitely under Singer rule…. Though the Iriali up and left.  That’s gotta be an awkward situation.

- The various former nations of the Azish “Empire.”  No idea what concessions they negotiated for their defection.  Has anything really changed for them? Are they more free or less? Can Retribution keep the peace between Emul and Tukar.

- The actual land of Reshi

- And of course Thaylenah.  They definitely got good concessions out of Odium.  Good enough that they’re probably the most privileged humans on Roshar. That won’t cause problems, I’m sure.

Outside Retribution’s control are:

- Urithiru, shielded, garrisoned with Knights Radiant, isolated.

- Azir itself, with its Unoathed shardbearers.  They may disturb Pax-Retributus, as virtue outside of oaths is kinda their thing.

- The Reshi Greatshell Isles, who are cooler than the ones on land.

- Narak, which seems awkward.  They own Retributions perpendicularity, the only way in or out of Shadesmar unless you have the surge of Transportation… and they have that too with the Reachers.  The Singers, at least the same and reasonable ones, approve of this, though there may be some dissention.

I’m not sure… does anyone own the Purelake?  Aimia?

[+Oltux72 he/him]

He also controls much of Shadesmar. And again, nobody cares about Natanatan.

[JustQuestin2004 he/him]

7 hours ago, Elder said:

I’m not sure… does anyone own the Purelake?

I think that Taravangian said something about conquering them or at least acquiring a contract from them like Theylenah.

7 hours ago, Elder said:

Aimia?

The only thing of true worth on there was the Dawnshard and a few sets of Plate and Soulcasters. Otherwise it's just too much work for nothing at all.

20 minutes ago, Oltux72 said:

He also controls much of Shadesmar.

Well, to follow in Taravangian's spirit of Loopholiness, does the Contract really include Shadesmar, or just the Physical Realm?

22 minutes ago, Oltux72 said:

And again, nobody cares about Natanatan.

Nah, he got a Contract with them, and Dawn's Shadow too.

 

7 hours ago, Elder said:

though there may be some dissention.

Speaking of which, that is an interesting question.

As per the rules of the Contract that Honor is effectively forcing Retribution to follow even if Dalinar broke it, it only stipulates that the war between the Coalition and Odium's forces has ended and that they cannot attack each other anymore.

But what about civil war? What is preventing that? Other than Retribution just smiting anyone who tries it, which in all honesty is probably the main reason why no one would try it.

But he's also not on Roshar at the moment and is in hiding, with him selecting an unknown Regent to act in his place (Probably El), so he won't be able to act so openly without the other Shards finding him and trying to kill him, so he'll be forced to let his other, less near-omnipotent subordinates handle that. 

So, there's still a chance that civil war can break out between Retribution's conquered nations without them being Smited on the spot.

[MagicMaggot]

1 hour ago, JustQuestin2004 said:

But what about civil war? What is preventing that?

Why would Retribution try to prevent it? (Enforced) Peace is for when he controls the cosmere, until then everything about him is still very much pro war. He still needs a warrior elite he can siphon off to send beyond Roshar. Border skirmishes or coups, even minor wars, are very much within his interests, as long as the casualties are within acceptable limits. 

Edited December 15, 2024 by MagicMaggot

[+Oltux72 he/him]

27 minutes ago, JustQuestin2004 said:

As per the rules of the Contract that Honor is effectively forcing Retribution to follow even if Dalinar broke it, it only stipulates that the war between the Coalition and Odium's forces has ended and that they cannot attack each other anymore.

But what about civil war? What is preventing that? Other than Retribution just smiting anyone who tries it, which in all honesty is probably the main reason why no one would try it.

Retribution controls the supply of Investiture and the Everstorm. So you won't get smitten, but starved, blown away or drowned.

That is not perfect. What we probably will see is a conflicht between the Fused and the rest of the Singers. I doubt they'll let ancient ghosts dominate them forever.

[Qianweilian He/him]

10 hours ago, Elder said:

- The various former nations of the Azish “Empire.”  No idea what concessions they negotiated for their defection.  Has anything really changed for them? Are they more free or less? Can Retribution keep the peace between Emul and Tukar

The thing is, there are several nations in the Empire that were never mentioned, like Alm, Desh, or even Marat. They were never mentioned as defecting, but never mentioned as controlled. It's unclear if "Azir" includes those nations, or just the one nation.

[alder24]

10 hours ago, Elder said:

I’m not sure… does anyone own the Purelake?  Aimia?

Countries around Purelake were conquered by Iri in OB, so this region (now flooded) is under Retribution's control. Aimia is destroyed and abandoned, nobody lives there and it's not worth owning. OB ch 122:

Quote

By reports via spanreed, most of the lesser kingdoms surrounding the Purelake had been captured by Iri—which had moved, accompanied by Fused, to secure land they’d eyed for generations. This secured for them three total Oathgates.

WaT ch 147:

Quote

The barriers of the Purelake had broken, and flooding had claimed many nearby lowlands, further isolating Azir.

 

 Shinovar is also controlled by Retribution. WaT ch 145:

Quote

His agents in the Shin government had succeeded while the Heralds were distracted.

The Azish Empire is dead, only Azir itself, Urithiru, the Shattered Plains and Reshi Isles are outside of Retribution's rule. Shadesmar is almost fully controlled by Retribution, probably with the only exception being Honorspren's possessions. WaT ch 147:

Quote

She trudged back among the tents and shanties, crossing wooden ground that floated here—Haka’alaku, a city built around the perpendicularity, covered seven distinct islands with floating wooden platforms between. It was of impressive size, ruled by the peakspren. Their egalitarian ways meant that even humans were in their senate, as anyone who lived here long enough was granted citizenship.
Of course, the Fused actually ruled. But they allowed the local government to do its thing.

 

3 hours ago, Oltux72 said:

And again, nobody cares about Natanatan.

New Natanan signed the deal with Taravangian, even Tukar did. WaT ch 114:

Quote

“You know of Emul and Tashikk. I have here contracts with Steen, Dawn’s Shadow, New Natanan, even Sesemalex Dar and Tukar—Ishar’s attention being elsewhere. These join my ports in Jah Keved, and my recent conquest in Karanak. In aggregate, I now control every major port on Roshar. Every one, Fen. Except, of course, Thaylen City.”