El's shardblade

[Hunspren]

After Venli informs El that the Shattered Plains belong to the listeners, one of the Fused wants to take a swing at Venli but El summons a shardblade in an instant and kills the Fused. Why was El capable of summoning a shardblade without the 10 seconds*?

(edit) *10 heartbeats, not seconds 

Edited December 15, 2024 by Hunspren

[Elder]

He is allied with Skybreakers (who would approve of how he respects the treaties in play) and Dustbringers (who would respect his outstanding self control).  So…

[wormotif]

I think he's pretty clearly a Radiant. While we've learned that a deadeye blade can still be summoned without the ten heartbeat delay, provided you have enough of a bond, El has been trapped on Braize for the last 4500 years and only came to Roshar around 10 days ago. Deadeyes didn't exist until Ba Ado Mishram was imprisoned during the Recreance 2000 years ago. Nahel bond then seems heavily implied (particularly considering his name comes from the same root as 'Nahel')

It also fits pretty well with his general human-phile tendencies. 

I don't think we've seen him use any surges, though - has anyone noticed anything that would suggest this is the case/what kind of spren he's bonded if so?

In absence of other evidence, the order that seems to fit best is definitely Dustbringers. His chapter is all about his astonishing self-control and presence of mind compared to what he considers the weakness of the other Fused. None of the other orders' ideals really seem to fit, save for the Elsecallers (reaching your potential) - but if he was an Elsecaller it seems clear it would've come up in his interlude since Taravangian explicitly asks him for advice on how to move more troops to the Shattered Plains. 

21 minutes ago, Elder said:

He is allied with Skybreakers (who would approve of how he respects the treaties in play) and Dustbringers (who would respect his outstanding self control).  So…

He does abide strictly by the treaty at the Shattered Plains, but he also explicitly and intentionally flagrantly violates Fused law by killing Jezrien in his interlude. He doesn't seem at all someone to abide by the commands of others if he doesn't consider them just or right. I guess I don't think Skybreakers really fits.

 

Edited December 14, 2024 by wormotif

[Elder]

27 minutes ago, wormotif said:

I think he's pretty clearly a Radiant. While we've learned that a deadeye blade can still be summoned without the ten heartbeat delay, provided you have enough of a bond, El has been trapped on Braize for the last 4500 years and only came to Roshar around 10 days ago. Deadeyes didn't exist until Ba Ado Mishram was imprisoned during the Recreance 2000 years ago. Nahel bond then seems heavily implied (particularly considering his name comes from the same root as 'Nahel')

It also fits pretty well with his general human-phile tendencies. 

I don't think we've seen him use any surges, though - has anyone noticed anything that would suggest this is the case/what kind of spren he's bonded if so?

In absence of other evidence, the order that seems to fit best is definitely Dustbringers. His chapter is all about his astonishing self-control and presence of mind compared to what he considers the weakness of the other Fused. None of the other orders' ideals really seem to fit, save for the Elsecallers (reaching your potential) - but if he was an Elsecaller it seems clear it would've come up in his interlude since Taravangian explicitly asks him for advice on how to move more troops to the Shattered Plains. 

He does abide strictly by the treaty at the Shattered Plains, but he also explicitly and intentionally flagrantly violates Fused law by killing Jezrien in his interlude. He doesn't seem at all someone to abide by the commands of others if he doesn't consider them just or right. I guess I don't think Skybreakers really fits.

 

I tend to agree. I’d argue that his adherence to the treaty had less to do with the treaty and more to do with him actually remembering what he truly fights for - the singers, and not necessarily the fused. He wants his people to have a future, and is proud of the Listeners for securing one for themselves.  Having a bond probably helps though.

Really though, he technically could have one of several other bonds if he’s on good terms with Sja-Anat.

Worth noting, he can use at least one surge as a Fused too, meaning he could have up two or three.  If all 3 are adjacent, we may never know which ones are from a bond.

[teknopathetic he/him]

It would be interesting if El held the blade before this desolation. Not sure how that would work, but would mesh with his odd status. 
 

Maybe he is the one who bonded the Night or something and betrayed the Spren. We still don’t know how that betrayal went down. 

Edited December 15, 2024 by teknopathetic

[TwinStorm He/Him]

6 hours ago, wormotif said:

I think he's pretty clearly a Radiant. While we've learned that a deadeye blade can still be summoned without the ten heartbeat delay, provided you have enough of a bond, El has been trapped on Braize for the last 4500 years and only came to Roshar around 10 days ago. Deadeyes didn't exist until Ba Ado Mishram was imprisoned during the Recreance 2000 years ago. Nahel bond then seems heavily implied (particularly considering his name comes from the same root as 'Nahel')

It also fits pretty well with his general human-phile tendencies. 

I don't think we've seen him use any surges, though - has anyone noticed anything that would suggest this is the case/what kind of spren he's bonded if so?

In absence of other evidence, the order that seems to fit best is definitely Dustbringers. His chapter is all about his astonishing self-control and presence of mind compared to what he considers the weakness of the other Fused. None of the other orders' ideals really seem to fit, save for the Elsecallers (reaching your potential) - but if he was an Elsecaller it seems clear it would've come up in his interlude since Taravangian explicitly asks him for advice on how to move more troops to the Shattered Plains. 

He does abide strictly by the treaty at the Shattered Plains, but he also explicitly and intentionally flagrantly violates Fused law by killing Jezrien in his interlude. He doesn't seem at all someone to abide by the commands of others if he doesn't consider them just or right. I guess I don't think Skybreakers really fits.

 

My crackpot theory has evidence???!?!!?!?  (I've been talking abt this on discord since El's interlude)

I personally think corrupted Skybreaker, as he does abide by the Nine's rule, (or Rayse's for that matter) he can still be a Skybreaker following his own laws. (if he is Elodi, as is fairly obvious, he was king of a singer nation separate from the Fused and does not abide by their laws as a foreign agent)

[wormotif]

3 hours ago, Ookla the Irreplaceable said:

My crackpot theory has evidence???!?!!?!?  (I've been talking abt this on discord since El's interlude)

I personally think corrupted Skybreaker, as he does abide by the Nine's rule, (or Rayse's for that matter) he can still be a Skybreaker following his own laws. (if he is Elodi, as is fairly obvious, he was king of a singer nation separate from the Fused and does not abide by their laws as a foreign agent)

Corrupted spren is a fair point, and/or I agree that 5th Oath Skybreaker (or just exploiting his ancient status as king, as you cleverly note) could be compatible with his behavior in the present. But attracting a highspren seems to require a willingness to follow the rules, at least for a time - i.e., trust the judgement of others over your own. Everything we've seen of El suggests that that's anathema to his personal creed and always has been.

[Isaiah Zayth he/him]

9 hours ago, wormotif said:

Corrupted spren is a fair point, and/or I agree that 5th Oath Skybreaker (or just exploiting his ancient status as king, as you cleverly note) could be compatible with his behavior in the present. But attracting a highspren seems to require a willingness to follow the rules, at least for a time - i.e., trust the judgement of others over your own. Everything we've seen of El suggests that that's anathema to his personal creed and always has been.

Is it possible that at some point in the past El was involved with creating one of the other “factions” of Skybreakers that Nale mentions?

Chapter 52 epigraph also mentions them:

Spoiler

It is to this end that I have identified and made particular note of three distinct factions of Skybreakers, even during Nale’Elin’s days of direct leadership, and this is to be found in my third coda. —From Words of Radiance, chapter 40, page 2

Perhaps the quest that Szeth undertakes to find the dissenting Skybreakers will someone involve El.

In general, I do agree that he leans more towards Dustbringer with his sense of complete emotional control, but… is it possible he could be bonded to both a Highspren (possibly corrupted) and an Ashspren?

[Storyspren]

El is Kelsier.

[Isaiah Zayth he/him]

19 hours ago, Storyspren said:

El is Kelsier.

Am I out of the loop on something? I thought Thaidakar was confirmed to be Kelsier.

From the way Shallan was talking to Kelsier at the end of the book, it feels like he wouldn't want to get sucked into the time dilatation on Roshar. He estimated it would last 80 years and that's way too long for Kelsier to be out of the loop.

[Qianweilian He/him]

19 hours ago, Storyspren said:

El is Kelsier.

Respectfully, how do you know that?

[Brgst13]

1 hour ago, Qianweilian said:

Respectfully, how do you know that?

Pretty sure this was tongue in cheek.

[marles]

On 12/16/2024 at 7:29 AM, Qianweilian said:

Respectfully, how do you know that?

I mean, it's right there, kELsier. What other explanation could there be? Mystery solved.

[Qianweilian He/him]

3 minutes ago, marles said:

I mean, it's right there, kELsier. What other explanation could there be? Mystery solved.

Dragonsteel, Elend Venture, Elantris, Elhokar, Elegy, Venli, Elendel Basin, Koravellium Avast, Medelantorius, Sel, Shadows for Silence in the Forest of Hell.

El is Adonalsium confirmed!

[NewGuy 16]

On 12/14/2024 at 10:19 PM, teknopathetic said:

It would be interesting if El held the blade before this desolation. Not sure how that would work, but would mesh with his odd status. 
 

Maybe he is the one who bonded the Night or something and betrayed the Spren. We still don’t know how that betrayal went down. 

Oooh, there could be something to this idea!

Most boring answer would be that he just was granted a blade that Odium's forces had won on some battlefield, but I do think he summoned it too quickly for it to be a normal dead shardblade situation. Another theory—what if he pulled an Adolin and Maya type move? From Leshwi's words in RoW we know some fused had friends among the spren—maybe El learned that a friend got turned into a deadeye and tried to revive them?

[Texside he/him/his]

5 hours ago, Qianweilian said:

Dragonsteel, Elend Venture, Elantris, Elhokar, Elegy, Venli, Elendel Basin, Koravellium Avast, Medelantorius, Sel, Shadows for Silence in the Forest of Hell.

El is Adonalsium confirmed!

El the Fused, in the middle of the climactic battle in Book 10, turning into the Elend Basin and smacking Kaladin upside the head with several hectares of fertile agricultural ground would be pretty memorable.

[Returned he/him]

Maybe he bonded a spren of Odium rather than a Radiant spren, but in the same way that Radiants do (as opposed to the normal singer bonding method). Maybe even a big one-- Chemoarish? I'm equally curious about why he can't hear the rhythms of Roshar. What if they're related in some way? Even though El no longer holds the title of Vyre, the lack of rhythms seems to persist.

[Qianweilian He/him]

19 hours ago, Texside said:

El the Fused, in the middle of the climactic battle in Book 10, turning into the Elend Basin and smacking Kaladin upside the head with several hectares of fertile agricultural ground would be pretty memorable.

So was the part where El revealed he was Elend Venture and sent a bunch of koloss with dragonsteel spikes after Sigzil. 

[Texside he/him/his]

1 hour ago, Qianweilian said:

So was the part where El revealed he was Elend Venture and sent a bunch of koloss with dragonsteel spikes after Sigzil. 

And then he became an Elantrian to boot!

[Qianweilian He/him]

Too bad he's not a Rithmatist, he's just like Joel

[OverlordBob999]

On 12/19/2024 at 3:43 PM, Qianweilian said:

Too bad he's not a Rithmatist, he's just like Joel

Joel. It's right there in the name. What other explanation could there be. 

[+Bzhydack he/him]

I see two possibilities about El and his Blade:

First, this is Voidspren. Most likely Regal Voidspren, but maybe ineed even Chemoarish. We still cannot identify El's Brand, so maybe he somehow combined being Fused and Regal.

Second, this is his own soul. Fused are basicly Spren after all, so maybe he learned how to manifest part of his soul as Shardblade. Or maybe this is soul of other Fused - and this is the reason why they fear him. Becauae they do - we can clearly see this.

[Nitpicking]

15 hours ago, Bzhydack said:

I see two possibilities about El and his Blade:

First, this is Voidspren. Most likely Regal Voidspren, but maybe ineed even Chemoarish. We still cannot identify El's Brand, so maybe he somehow combined being Fused and Regal.

Second, this is his own soul. Fused are basicly Spren after all, so maybe he learned how to manifest part of his soul as Shardblade. Or maybe this is soul of other Fused - and this is the reason why they fear him. Becauae they do - we can clearly see this.

It's just a regular Sja-Anat "enlightened" spren. Why would it be anything else? She's said openly to Shallan that she's willing to work with both sides if it will let her protect her children.

[Argenti he/him]

18 hours ago, Bzhydack said:

I see two possibilities about El and his Blade:

First, this is Voidspren. Most likely Regal Voidspren, but maybe ineed even Chemoarish. We still cannot identify El's Brand, so maybe he somehow combined being Fused and Regal.

Second, this is his own soul. Fused are basicly Spren after all, so maybe he learned how to manifest part of his soul as Shardblade. Or maybe this is soul of other Fused - and this is the reason why they fear him. Becauae they do - we can clearly see this.

It's not a voidspren. Voidspren might be able to grant surges and form a nahel bond, but as they're not part of the knights radiant they probably could not grant Blade or Plate without extra work. Those come from Ishar's Formalization, rather than a benefit of the Nahel bond.

It can not be his own soul, not anymore than a Herald could turn themselves into swords.

It's probably an enlightened spren. Or just one of the non-coalition spren.