What if Jasnah… left

[Elder]

Jasnah has been broken.  The flaws in her morality laid bare, her foundations shaken.  She’s lost everything. It may be time for her to make some bad decisions.

Jasnah is also the only one who can leave Urithiru.  Granted, she may not be able to get back without a significant source of power, and I’m not sure she’d be willing to ask Retribution for Warlight.  That becomes less of an issue if she leaves Roshar.

The right choice would probably be to learn how to make an Elsegate and get everyone out.  Or in. Or at least open up trade with Venli (who shares her surge, making it more possible), and possibly with Azimir.  She has an essential role to play.

but, she may not be ready for that right now. Losing everything is a great opportunity to rebuild, but lots of people don’t do that right away.

So… what if she just…. left.

Edited December 13, 2024 by Elder

[Isilel]

Some of the epigraphs are from her disciple 6 years after the end of WaT (check chapters 133 and 147 in particular) and Jasnah is supposed to be one of the main characters of the second half of SA and have book 10 flashbacks.

So, no. Also it would be a massive waste of an intriguing character with great potential.

I hope that she would visit Ashyn at some point during the second half, though.

[Elder]

27 minutes ago, Isilel said:

Some of the epigraphs are from her disciple 6 years after the end of WaT (check chapters 133 and 147 in particular) and Jasnah is supposed to be one of the main characters of the second half of SA and have book 10 flashbacks.

So, no. Also it would be a massive waste of an intriguing character with great potential.

I hope that she would visit Ashyn at some point during the second half, though.

The epigraphs from her disciple are fairly compelling evidence, I will grant you.  That said, I think the time skip for the next book is 10 years, not 6, so there’s still 4 years for her to get lost.

However, I sincerely disagree that it would be a waste.  It would be a direction for her to come back from. She could become the prodigal, returning home to save her people as she rediscovers who she is. 

Up until Wind and Truth, she was unassailable in her idea of who she was. Yes, she was called heretic, but she was always confident that she was right.  She made it all the way to the 4th ideal without us reading about a single one of her oaths, and we’re not getting the flashbacks, where hopefully we get to see those oaths, till book 10.  Her progress in going from 4th ideal to 5th will be glacial.  I posit that it will work much better if she backslides.  Maybe not full recreance, though to be fair, that doesn’t mean what it used to. But a little walkabout may be good for her.

[TheOtherDave]

1 hour ago, Isilel said:

Some of the epigraphs are from her disciple 6 years after the end of WaT (check chapters 133 and 147 in particular) and Jasnah is supposed to be one of the main characters of the second half of SA and have book 10 flashbacks.

She could leave and come back. Like, maybe Urithiru runs out of organic beef so she hops on over to Scadrial to buy some of theirs? Oh! Maybe she’ll get her ears pierced at that one store in the mall while she’s there…

[RedBlue]

2 hours ago, Elder said:

Jasnah has been broken.  The flaws in her morality laid bare, her foundations shaken.  She’s lost everything. It may be time for her to make some bad decisions.

I think there’s a difference between a character being ‘broken’ and a character being at an emotional low point after a major loss.

Jasnah is devastated, but in her POV sections toward the end of the book, she’s not checking out or giving up. She’s questioning her philosophy of ethics, but she isn’t throwing away her desire to have a good, consistent set of ethics to adhere to. And she still cares deeply about what is left of her family and her people. I don’t expect her to do anything wildly irresponsible in the time skip years.

[Master Silver]

Taravangian offered to make her the regent of the whole planet. There is absolutely no need for them to keep fighting him. Taravangian litterally became their god so what is the point? Odium has been defeated because Odium does not exist anymore.

[Elder]

54 minutes ago, RedBlue said:

I think there’s a difference between a character being ‘broken’ and a character being at an emotional low point after a major loss.

Jasnah is devastated, but in her POV sections toward the end of the book, she’s not checking out or giving up. She’s questioning her philosophy of ethics, but she isn’t throwing away her desire to have a good, consistent set of ethics to adhere to. And she still cares deeply about what is left of her family and her people. I don’t expect her to do anything wildly irresponsible in the time skip years.

She’s certainly not broken to the level of, say, the heralds. There’s different levels to this. But her entire moral foundation has collapsed. Shallan and Renarin might be able to help her with that, given their understanding of truth. A vision of Dalinar, her favorite uncle could help her a lot.  Aside from the prospect of a vision though, she’s going to have to humble herself to get that kind of help from her former pupil or her little cousin. The powerful princess will have to turn to those whom were, in a few different ways, quite beneath her. However, it seems to me, the Jasnah we saw last was focused on what she’d lost, not who she still had.

Either way, she cannot progress near enough as the vision of confidence we got in books 1-4.  I suggest that she was broken in book so that we could really focus on her rebuilding herself in 6-10. I’m suggesting that may involve a bit of running, as she’s one of the few who can.

44 minutes ago, Master Silver said:

Taravangian offered to make her the regent of the whole planet. There is absolutely no need for them to keep fighting him. Taravangian litterally became their god so what is the point? Odium has been defeated because Odium does not exist anymore.

Because Retribution is exactly the sort of god Jasnah is going to fear and hate at her core. A god of vengeance. She didn’t care for Honor as a god before he got mixed up with Odium. It’s still divorced from  aspects that give context such as Devotion, Reason, and Mercy. 

Retribution is a god who rules their world through punishment. He’s clearly planning to be such. I also predict that his management of Warlight is designed to foster utter dependence. You literally have to pray to him every night to get it.

Retribution is a tyrant god if there ever was one. Mark my words.

Edited December 13, 2024 by Elder

[+robardin he/him]

2 hours ago, Isilel said:

Some of the epigraphs are from her disciple 6 years after the end of WaT (check chapters 133 and 147 in particular) and Jasnah is supposed to be one of the main characters of the second half of SA and have book 10 flashbacks.

So, no. Also it would be a massive waste of an intriguing character with great potential.

I hope that she would visit Ashyn at some point during the second half, though.

Yes, I was going to mention/ask about that, too.

The relevant epigraph, written six years afterwards by Masha-daughter-Shaliv:

Much of what I know of the Knight of Wind, I get from Jasnah Kholin. Now head of our order, and a woman who has shown much patience for a simple Shin bookworm who thinks herself worthy of the task of writing this account.

Which raises a number of questions, like: how did she communicate with Jasnah in Urithiru, with no or very few spren around any more? Via Nightblood?

And, what did she mean by "head of our order" -- is this still a "school of scholarship" thing, e.g. the "Veristitalians", or has Masha bonded an inkspren to become an Elsecaller as well? That would be interesting.

[Elder]

7 minutes ago, robardin said:

Yes, I was going to mention/ask about that, too.

The relevant epigraph, written six years afterwards by Masha-daughter-Shaliv:

Much of what I know of the Knight of Wind, I get from Jasnah Kholin. Now head of our order, and a woman who has shown much patience for a simple Shin bookworm who thinks herself worthy of the task of writing this account.

Which raises a number of questions, like: how did she communicate with Jasnah in Urithiru, with no or very few spren around any more? Via Nightblood?

And, what did she mean by "head of our order" -- is this still a "school of scholarship" thing, e.g. the "Veristitalians", or has Masha bonded an inkspren to become an Elsecaller as well? That would be interesting.

It may be that she does in fact leave Urithiru, but stays on Roshar.  She could probably get to Narak, get back via perpendicularity, and have diplomatic status there at least.