Predict Minor Developments in the ten year gap to SA6 [MINOR ONLY!]

[Cocoa he/him]

Nobody is going to cotton onto the fact that Kaladin became a Herald during the timeskip, so it'll blindside everyone when he returns.

Szeth has lots of sheep.

Shallan and Adolin's kid (henceforth called "Yugi Mutou" until we get an actual name) is going to speak like a Cryptic. The math puns, to be clear, not the clicking. Probably. Maybe.

Kal and Chana are going to eventually have a very awkward off-screen conversation about her family history as part of his role as divine therapist.

Lift will address some of her never-grow-up issues under Zahel's tutelage, but not all of them.

Lift and Gift (somehow I'm only just now noticing the rhyme) will court/date at some point during the timeskip. No bet on whether they're still together by book 6.

Lift's aviar somehow doesn't die of old age during is still alive after the timeskip. Edit: On it being pointed out, yeah, parrots can live for a while.

Lopen becomes the leader of the Windrunners, with a lot of the other old guard being either dead or absent from Urithiru. He's 4th ideal when we see him again but we keep just missing the story of how he swore that oath or the story keeps changing.

There's a bunch of Reshi and Herdazians out there living nomadic lifestyles on the backs of greatshells.

Thaylenah becomes the unofficial seat of Retribution's new religion, in part due to the people there already following both Vorinism and the Passions.

Edited December 23, 2024 by Cocoa

[Texside he/him/his]

8 hours ago, Cocoa said:

Shallan and Adolin's kid (henceforth called "Yugi Mutou" until we get an actual name) is going to speak like a Cryptic. The math puns, to be clear, not the clicking. Probably. Maybe.

Odds on calling them Uncle Pattern and Aunt Testament?

[Necessary Eagle she/her]

9 hours ago, Cocoa said:

Lift's aviar somehow doesn't die of old age during the timeskip.

It's an aviar, even regular, un-Invested parrots can live decades.

[+robardin he/him]

10 hours ago, Cocoa said:

Nobody is going to cotton onto the fact that Kaladin became a Herald during the timeskip, so it'll blindside everyone when he returns.

Szeth has lots of sheep.

...

Lopen becomes the leader of the Windrunners, with a lot of the other old guard being either dead or absent from Urithiru. He's 4th ideal when we see him again but we keep just missing the story of how he swore that oath or the story keeps changing.

...

Thaylenah becomes the unofficial seat of Retribution's new religion, in part due to the people there already following both Vorinism and the Passions.

I like these all

Even the in-world "Knights of Wind and Truth", with as close to an eyewitness account of What Went Down In Shinovar as there is based on Szeth and Nightblood's later testimonies, doesn't include the forming of the New Oathpact: Szeth was unconscious at the time, and Nightblood was in an Investiture-gorged stupor.

In fact, the author, Szeth's wife, personally helped him bury Kaladin's body with its burned-out eyes. So if any of his friends are still around for whenever and whatever prompts a Return from the New Heralds (not another Desolation, any more... But what?), they're gonna be gobsmacked!

I hope that it's relatively soon in SA6, and Kaladin just casually strolls in, darkeyed once again, to Jez's Duty in Urithiru while Adolin and Shallan are there, and reminds Adolin that he owes him a drink. "Oh, and who's this little guy? Cute kid!"

I gave one way that Lopen could reach the Fourth Ideal in my OP, LOL, but I'm sure that won't be it :D. Though it'd also be funny if Lopen was cagey about what his Fourth Ideal was.

What's left of the Diagram? Could they also form some scriptural part of whatever the new religion worshiping Retribution might be? Though I guess the Fused and singers would have some input as well?

[RedBlue]

 

• Shallan helps to organise a sneaky resistance movement among Radiant spren. Now that Retribution is a direct threat to them, they take the conflict seriously and there is much more interest in forming Radiant bonds.
• Adolin fills out a bunch of paperwork and becomes a legal citizen of Azimir.
• Szeth and his wife travel around looking for answers.
• The people in Urithiru stay physically trapped there, but establish a fairly robust system for passing messages to and from the outside world.
• Renarin and Jasnah set up a system of government in Urithiru that can function without either of their direct input.
• Thaylenah is going to be fine. Nothing awful happens to it, and people living there have a decent quality of life.

[a Faceless Immortal he/him]

It's not in the time skip necessarily, but storms, Kaladin, Adolin and Shallan need to have those drinks they promised.

[Texside he/him/his]

2 hours ago, RedBlue said:

Adolin fills out a bunch of paperwork and becomes a legal citizen of Azimir.

Oh heck. Didn't the last Adolin chapter indicate he was learning to read, even? Or am I imagining that?

[+robardin he/him]

1 hour ago, RedBlue said:

 

• Shallan helps to organise a sneaky resistance movement among Radiant spren. Now that Retribution is a direct threat to them, they take the conflict seriously and there is much more interest in forming Radiant bonds.
• Adolin fills out a bunch of paperwork and becomes a legal citizen of Azimir.
• Szeth and his wife travel around looking for answers.
• The people in Urithiru stay physically trapped there, but establish a fairly robust system for passing messages to and from the outside world.
• Renarin and Jasnah set up a system of government in Urithiru that can function without either of their direct input.
• Thaylenah is going to be fine. Nothing awful happens to it, and people living there have a decent quality of life.

What kind of "resistance" could radiant spren, or Radiants, put up against Retribution? I guess if he does leave Roshar in the hands of a regent (presumably El), at the head of the Fused and regals on top of most of Roshar, resistance could be against them... But nothing they can do will bring back Stormlight laden highstorms, functioning Oathgates, or -- wait for it -- a break in the never-ending Everstorm to see the sun again?

I could see Adolin deciding to stay long-term in Azimir, being unable to return to Urithiru and not having much reason to go back there anyway, what with his father dead, Navani cocooned, his wife missing in Shadesmar, Kaladin presumed dead, etc., etc. But when he's on a first-name basis with the Prime, do you think he would still need to --

Ah what am I saying, of course he will have to fill out some paperwork. LOL.

Szeth will go searching for "dissident" Skybreakers to see if their non-Nale version of the Ideals align with what he's looking for. I'm wondering, if he does find them and bonds another highspren, if he "jumps" to the Fifth Ideal since he's already reached it? I mean, he didn't break his oaths so much as fire his first spren.

It does seem like the revived spren of "unoathed" Blades and Plate will be key in communicating via Shadesmar with those inside of Urithiru, we saw that at the end of WaT. Which Azimir now has a lot of, but shouldn't ALL former deadeye Blades and Plate now be sentient like that? Including those captured by the Fused and the singers since the war began (like the ones formerly possessed by Moash, given to him by Kaladin)?

Would those Shards still serve the Fused, since they now have volition again?

I low-key would like to see a small redemption arc not for Moash (he's too far gone) but for Relis, who yielded in the 4-on-1 arena duel with Adolin (then with Renarin, and then also with Kaladin) after hearing his Blade scream about being killed. Like, if he reunited with his former Blade, but this time, bonding with it as an Unoathed.

As for Thaylenah: I'm sure Queen Fen bargained well for good treatment of the humans there. But it's still going to be run by Fused and singers, and still be under the eternal Everstorm, right?

Will they trade with Azimir, or allow movement between Azimir and its neighboring states?

[RedBlue]

47 minutes ago, robardin said:

What kind of "resistance" could radiant spren, or Radiants, put up against Retribution? I guess if he does leave Roshar in the hands of a regent (presumably El), at the head of the Fused and regals on top of most of Roshar, resistance could be against them... But nothing they can do will bring back Stormlight laden highstorms, functioning Oathgates, or -- wait for it -- a break in the never-ending Everstorm to see the sun again?

I’m picturing a network of Radiant spren sharing information, carrying messages, gathering political support from spren societies, and creating new Radiants. They won’t do anything to actively oppose Retribution during the time-skip, but they will be ready to go when an opportunity presents itself (ie when the plot starts again).

Having more Radiants, of a greater variety of Orders, will make a big difference when the conflict eventually gets going again. This is about preparation.

57 minutes ago, robardin said:

As for Thaylenah: I'm sure Queen Fen bargained well for good treatment of the humans there. But it's still going to be run by Fused and singers, and still be under the eternal Everstorm, right?

Will they trade with Azimir, or allow movement between Azimir and its neighboring states?

Unless I missed something, I don’t see why Taravangian would install a Fused government in Thaylenah. The government they already have works just fine for his purposes. Fen can report directly to Taravangian. No need to fix what isn’t broken.

And the Everstorm will still be there, but people can live with that.

I think Azimir is going to be on its own. I hope they can manage as an isolated state.

[+robardin he/him]

35 minutes ago, RedBlue said:

Unless I missed something, I don’t see why Taravangian would install a Fused government in Thaylenah. The government they already have works just fine for his purposes. Fen can report directly to Taravangian. No need to fix what isn’t broken.

And the Everstorm will still be there, but people can live with that.

Well, the default arrangement for a human nation that surrendered or accepted Odium seems to be that the humans are allowed to continue to live somewhat freely, but under Fused/singer rule and domination. We see this from the Dyel Interlude in Iri, where humans are doing better (still running a tea shop) than we saw in the dispossessed shantytowns for humans in Alethkar that Moash was in at first, or even in Hearthstone. Presumably because they surrendered or joined voluntarily, while Alethkar put up a resistance. But Dyel referred to the Fused as "Owners", so clearly they were on top.

Thaylenah got "the greatest deal any kingdom or planet will ever get from me", said Taravangian, because he so wanted to prove Jasnah wrong on her own terms ("you've always tried to have it both ways, Jasnah... Protect your own. Then do what is right. In that order"), so they'll be better off than the Iri.

However, I'd be surprised if Odium would not install the singers -- former parshmen slaves, plus Regals and Fused -- to being at least the equals, if not in charge, of the humans in Thaylenah. Especially now that he also has taken up Honor. It's what Team Odium was about, first and foremost, supposedly: restoring control Roshar to its native people (which is why the Nale-led Skybreakers went over to them).

Edited December 19, 2024 by robardin

[Argenti he/him]

On 12/17/2024 at 11:39 PM, Cocoa said:

Lift's aviar somehow doesn't die of old age during the timeskip.

 

Parrots can live up to like 80. It'll be fine.

[RedBlue]

22 minutes ago, robardin said:

However, I'd be surprised if Odium would not install the singers -- former parshmen slaves, plus Regals and Fused -- to being at least the equals, if not in charge, of the humans in Thaylenah. Especially now that he also has taken up Honor. It's what Team Odium was about, first and foremost, supposedly: restoring control Roshar to its native people (which is why the Nale-led Skybreakers went over to them).

I expect the Singers to be treated as equal to normal humans in Thaylenah, because treating them as a underclass would be counterproductive at this point. But I don’t expect Taravangian to install them on a level of power between himself and Fen’s government.

Rayse paid lip service to the idea of restoring the Singers’ ancestral land to them, but Taravangian and Honor don’t care about that. Taravangian is going to do whatever gives him an advantage in his war, which does not need to involve shaking up a local government that is already stable and working for him. And Honor’s very narrow understanding of oaths doesn’t require keeping informal or implied promises.

[Qianweilian He/him]

1 hour ago, RedBlue said:

I expect the Singers to be treated as equal to normal humans in Thaylenah

I agree, because a) Thaylenah did negotiate a deal with Retribution, and b) I'm not sure if the Fused will stay in power even in Alethkar. I wouldn't be suprised if El, as regent, establishes more equal government.

[DSCrankshaw]

3 hours ago, robardin said:

It does seem like the revived spren of "unoathed" Blades and Plate will be key in communicating via Shadesmar with those inside of Urithiru, we saw that at the end of WaT. Which Azimir now has a lot of, but shouldn't ALL former deadeye Blades and Plate now be sentient like that? Including those captured by the Fused and the singers since the war began (like the ones formerly possessed by Moash, given to him by Kaladin)?

Would those Shards still serve the Fused, since they now have volition again?

I low-key would like to see a small redemption arc not for Moash (he's too far gone) but for Relis, who yielded in the 4-on-1 arena duel with Adolin (then with Renarin, and then also with Kaladin) after hearing his Blade scream about being killed. Like, if he reunited with his former Blade, but this time, bonding with it as an Unoathed.

What we're told in Adolin's last POV is that non-Unoathed Shardblades can no longer be bonded. I believe that means that Shardblades that were not in Shadesmar when Retribution formed are apparently stuck in the physical realm in Blade form. I don't know what that means for Shardblades that were bonded and dismissed to Shadesmar. Are they still in Shadesmar as recovering Deadeyes? Or were they shunted out of Shadesmar to their bonded users? What does that mean for Vienta? Last time we saw her she was in Blade form in the physical realm. Is she still stuck in Blade form?

[TacticalShardSpork]

Sazed learns a thing or two from the Wind about how to better balance both protecting/preserving with weathering/ruin. 

[Dreamwa1ker she/her]

On 12/19/2024 at 1:35 PM, DSCrankshaw said:

What we're told in Adolin's last POV is that non-Unoathed Shardblades can no longer be bonded. I believe that means that Shardblades that were not in Shadesmar when Retribution formed are apparently stuck in the physical realm in Blade form. I don't know what that means for Shardblades that were bonded and dismissed to Shadesmar. Are they still in Shadesmar as recovering Deadeyes? Or were they shunted out of Shadesmar to their bonded users? What does that mean for Vienta? Last time we saw her she was in Blade form in the physical realm. Is she still stuck in Blade form?

This is an interesting question. We know from the earlier books, that normally to bond a shardblade you have to have a gemstone on the pommel and keep the blade summoned for 5 days. I was assuming Stormlight is somehow involved with the gemstone and the bonding process, though it is unclear if you have to somehow keep that gemstone charged. But in any case, I'm assuming this is why people could not bond dead shardblades anymore - no Stormlight.

But now that BAM is freed and deadeyes may start to recover - will already bonded dead blades begin to recover somewhat like Maya already had - be able to summon faster, etc? I don't think stormlight is necessary to summon a dead blade, just to bond it. But that is maybe an assumption on my part. I could see already bonded blades either join up with their owners more as an unoathed bond, if they like the person. But perhaps could now rebel/leave if they didn't like the person or way they were being used.

[+robardin he/him]

On 12/19/2024 at 2:35 PM, DSCrankshaw said:

What we're told in Adolin's last POV is that non-Unoathed Shardblades can no longer be bonded. I believe that means that Shardblades that were not in Shadesmar when Retribution formed are apparently stuck in the physical realm in Blade form. I don't know what that means for Shardblades that were bonded and dismissed to Shadesmar. Are they still in Shadesmar as recovering Deadeyes? Or were they shunted out of Shadesmar to their bonded users? What does that mean for Vienta? Last time we saw her she was in Blade form in the physical realm. Is she still stuck in Blade form?

Yeah, I kind of assumed that Shardblades left in Shadesmar were going to "recover" the way the Unoathed Shards had done, after all Adolin had been bonded to Maya beforehand, but she could well continue to be a very special case.

The "Unoathed" Shards that the ten Unoathed in Azimir can use despite not being Radiant, were "lost" Shards that Maya convinced to cross over physically of their own free will -- a state they had reached, being able to do that, by virtue of the freeing of Ba-Ado-Mishram, is how I read it.

The inability for ordinary Shardbearers to gem-bond Blades or to repair Plate with Stormlight has to do with the lack of availability of Stormlight now, post-Retribution.

The fact that the "Unoathed" Shards can still be summoned and dismissed, and apparently that the Plate still "recovers" (on its own? No feeding of Light?), is very curious.

[DSCrankshaw]

"In contrast to those of ordinary Shardbearers—whose Blades could not be bonded and Plate could not be repaired—the armaments of the Unoathed still functioned."

If the Shardblades were in Shadesmar, I'd expect that to say that their Shardblades could not be summoned. Saying that they could not be bonded I interpret as saying, at least, that they've tried it, probably with the Azish Shardblade, Blade of Memories, and were not able to bond it or dismiss it to Shadesmar, meaning it's probably stuck in the physical realm as a sword. 

[Cocoa he/him]

On 12/18/2024 at 5:54 AM, Texside said:

Odds on calling them Uncle Pattern and Aunt Testament?

High odds.

[scudalarm]

• Thaylenah will act as the hub city for cognitive to physical / physical to cognitive trade. (This explains the Thaylen merchant in another book)
• There will be a rehash of the "Man who calls himself Taln", plot. (I'm not cool with this, maybe it will just be a flashback scene)
• The Blackthorn will get Nergaoul as a weapon. (And Brandon will write the story in a way that the audience will be hyped for that to happen)

Edited December 22, 2024 by scudalarm

[a Faceless Immortal he/him]

6 hours ago, scudalarm said:

The Blackthorn will get Nergaoul as a weapon. (And Brandon will write the story in a way that the audience will be hyped for that to happen)

If he bonds The Thrill and manages to summon it as a Shardblade can we call it Loathebringer? 

[scudalarm]

7 minutes ago, a Faceless Immortal said:

If he bonds The Thrill and manages to summon it as a Shardblade can we call it Loathebringer? 

Yes.

Although I had a lamer idea that Nergaoul would manifest as a battle horse/motorcycle/hovercraft for the True Desolation Era/Modern Era/Space Era

[+robardin he/him]

1 hour ago, a Faceless Immortal said:

If he bonds The Thrill and manages to summon it as a Shardblade can we call it Loathebringer? 

I was just wondering earlier today now the Shadow of Blackthorn would function without the Thrill, being as it’s trapped in the King’s Drop somewhere (put into an aluminum lock box and thrown into the depths of the sea, presumably off the coast of Thaylenah).

But if Honor could form Honorblades via an Oathpact, then it stands to reason Retribution could form Loathebringer with some kind of passionate oath, eh? And part of what it “grants” is a Thrill-like resolve and energy, versus granting Surges?

(Chilling thought: the Shadow Blackthorn probably also has the hots for Navani… Eeek)
 

Edited December 22, 2024 by robardin

[JPGU]

On 12/12/2024 at 9:26 PM, Ookla the Pancake said:

- Szeth and Hesina bond, and Szeth and his wife help raise Oroden

Man, thinking about Szeth being a Big Brother to Oroden just warns my heart. Also i think we will see Oroden saying that Lopen is his Uncle because he says that kaladin was his cousin.

Another thing that i don't know if counts as minor, i think in the lift flashbacks we will see the moment that Szeth tells Hesina and Lirin that Kaladin is death.

[+robardin he/him]

11 hours ago, JPGU said:

Man, thinking about Szeth being a Big Brother to Oroden just warns my heart. Also i think we will see Oroden saying that Lopen is his Uncle because he says that kaladin was his cousin.

Another thing that i don't know if counts as minor, i think in the lift flashbacks we will see the moment that Szeth tells Hesina and Lirin that Kaladin is death.

That would be cute, though I don’t think Lopen ever called Kaladin a cousin — he spoke of his (apparently genuinely) cousins from Herdaz to Kaladin, his “gancho”, right?

As for Oroden growing up: he will have very vague memories of Kaladin (at best), but wasn’t his family ennobled as House Stormblessed?

What that would mean for Alethkar-in-Exile in Urithiru, especially since Oroden is himself darkeyed, but of course that distinction has been eliminated, … well, it could be a mess from a societal POV.

But just as Adolin and Renarin are still going to be Adolin and Renarin Kholin, even if there is no particular meaning to a claim on being a highprince of a region of Alethkar, Oroden is going to grow up as “Oroden Stormblessed”, yeah?

Now that’s a big name to live up to…!