so what exactly was Dalinar's plan here?

[Necessary Eagle she/her]

Am I supposed to be confused at this point about what Dalinar was trying to do with Baby Honor?

He determines that new power needs to grow as a "person" and learn to be good as well as honorable, so he sends the power off to... become part of Retribution? How is that supposed to make Honor better?

 

Edit: to clarify, I understand the part of the plan that gives Honor to Odium to make him too dangerous to ignore. That's explicit text. My question is about the part where he's trying to influence the young Honor to change, somehow, by the time Retribution is dealt with.

Edited December 9, 2024 by Necessary Eagle

[Kardenal_13 he/him]

If I understood Dalinar's plan correctly your question has two separate answers.

1. Why let Honor become part of Retribution? 

So that the other Shards would stop ignoring Odium and thus be forced to help fight him. His alternative qs to aeal him for a thousand years which Dalinar considered kicking the problem/can down the road. Fighting him destroys Roshar but this option has a chance of saving the planet.

 

2. Power needs to learn what exactly?

Part of Dalinar's plan was for the power of Honor to change it'a definition of what Honor is, hopefully from oaths to somerhing aproximating what we generally use Honorable to mean AKA good. If he succeeds in this I imagine rhar Honot will eventually abandon Taravangian, but it's a century/millenia spanning plan, not a near future plan. IMO some of the Powers reaction to Taravangian as Retribution are very early signs of this.

The parts of Honor that split off before he fuses with Odium to make Retribution are probably going to be doing the lions share of the observing, I'd imagine while observing the protagonists.

Edited December 8, 2024 by Kardenal_13

[Necessary Eagle she/her]

I'm asking specifically about point 2.

22 minutes ago, Kardenal_13 said:

2. Power needs to learn what exactly?

Part of Dalinar's plan was for the power of Honor to change it'a definition of what Honor is, hopefully from oaths to somerhing aproximating what we generally use Honorable to mean AKA good. If he succeeds in this I imagine rhar Honot will eventually abandon Taravangian, but it's a century/millenia spanning plan, not a near future plan. IMO some of the Powers reaction to Taravangian as Retribution are very early signs of this.

Yes, but why on Roshar would he think being part of Retribution will be a good influence?

 

 

[Kardenal_13 he/him]

12 minutes ago, Necessary Eagle said:

I'm asking specifically about point 2.

Yes, but why on Roshar would he think being part of Retribution will be a good influence?

 

 

I THINK he plans for Honor to see that Taravangian does terrible things even when he keeps his oaths, and to change based on that. As in move away from only oaths and start to think about what it considers good.

I started typing that I think Dalinar would have rather Honor not go to Taravangian, since Odium being free from Roshar could have been enough to convince other Shards to act but I'm not sure I actually think that.

 

I'm not completely convinced by this myself so if someone has a better idea please say so.

[FollowYourMuse she/her]

57 minutes ago, Kardenal_13 said:

The parts of Honor that split off before he fuses with Odium to make Retribution are probably going to be doing the lions share of the observing, I'd imagine while observing the protagonists.

I have to look at the timeline, but my thought were that those parts went to Kaladin/Syl /The heralds with the new Oathpact. 

[imriel452]

My thoughts on Dalinar's plan was that by making Taravangian take on Honour, and becoming Retribution, he forced the remaining Shards to turn their eyes to Roshar. Previously, they all seemed to have a deal of Non-Intervention with each other, and with Roshar.

We have only ever seen one Dual Shard holder, being Sazed, but Ruin and Preservation have always worked to balance each other out essentially, like scales, with 1 thing on each side.

With Retribution, the scales are weighted Two to 0, and now, they can't ignore him.

[The Stick]

Another option could be to just release Odium from Roshar. This would make him a Cosmere wide problem for the other Shards. He could make Taravangian swear to abandon Roshar. This makes other Shards get involved, and avoid the Gavilar choice, and avoid being Taravangian's puppet.

[a Faceless Immortal he/him]

I'm fairly certain that the plan was to show Baby Honor that Oaths are not an inherent good; throughout the ending we get little questions where Taravangian says something and the power pushes back, eg asking if the treatment of Gavinor was honourable, the power isn't fond of the spiritual Kharbranth, etc.

I think it's setting up that Taravangian is going to be betrayed by the power of Honor in the future, crippling what seems now to be a dangerous threat.

[Qianweilian He/him]

I agree, I think end stage cosmere will have Retribution collapsing out from underneath himself as Honor rejects him. 

I have a feeling he's going to go collect other shards and then it will all collapse

[Subvisual Haze]

On a meta level it feels like:

1) tell the reader there is a secret plan (so they don't get too bummed out about the bad guys winning)

2) keep the plan vague (so the readers can endlessly speculate)

[DiePie]

On 12/8/2024 at 3:38 PM, Necessary Ookla said:

He determines that new power needs to grow as a "person" and learn to be good as well as honorable, so he sends the power off to... become part of Retribution? How is that supposed to make Honor better?

Other way around I think. Honor and Odium appear to be mixing much better than Ruin and Preservation did, I don't think the goal is to split a moral Honor away from Retribution, but to shape Retribution to be more moral. Dalinar's gamble is that he traumatized Honor's power enough that the new shard will still be fundamentally shaped by it.

 

On a side note, I'm putting a chip on the "Dalinar kills a child in order to win the contest of champions" square of my bingo card. Technically false, but I'm still taking it.

[BinarySecond]

I think we're going to see the inverse of what happened with Sazed. He starts as Harmony, does some really good stuff etc.

He is sliding slowly into Discord because the Intents are opposed.

 

For now Honor and Odium like the war. It suits both of them. Dalinar has planted the seed for Honour to expand the definition of Honour through observing the harm that comes from just keeping oaths. Retribution is going to become more and more impotent the long that goes on I think.

Taravangian knows he has to make oaths carefully now. The power is going to observe a shrewd operator unlike Tanavast who did a lot of oathing and a lot of breaking. I think it's going to learn from the context of these oaths.

[TheoreticalMagic]

Apologies for how long this got, but once I got started theorizing I kept going lol. There was a LOT to unpack, but I'm pretty pleased with the end result:

My guess as to why he thinks Honor being part of Odium might be a good thing is not because he thinks Honor has anything to learn/gain from Odium specifically, but rather Honor (AND potentially any other Shards observing how Retribution ends up being different from Odium) can learn and grow from seeing how Honor's fusion with Odium DOES result in some positives, in the form of forcing more of a focusing of Intent on Odium, in a specific direction.

The thing about Retribution is although it can be (and often is) as violent and hatred based or derived as Odium's unchecked influence, there is at least the POTENTIAL for righteous retribution, a call to accountability, that pure, uninfluenced Odium just does not have. Retribution can be focused, it can be mitigated, it can be directed in SOME positive directions whereas Odium itself is just the unfiltered, naturally existent capacity for wrath and hatred. Even when Rayse tried to define his own Intent as Passion, it always seemed to me that if it were that easy to treat Passion and Odium as interchangeable Intents, we would see some more acknowledgment of that from if not Hoid, at least other Shards (although they all admittedly seemed biased against Rayse in their own ways....not unfairly biased necessarily, just non-objective in general). Rayse calling himself Passion instead of Odium felt to me more like something that was THEORETICALLY possible, a capacity for Odium to become more than just hatred, or something other than just divine wrath.....but in actuality, he was more just lying to himself or projecting the self-image of what he WANTED his Intent to be....than actually making it so. In the cosmere, even gods embodying a fundamental aspect or shard of the Primal Creator aren't above divine self-delusion.

So I don't think it was really about what Dalinar thought Honor could learn from fusing with Odium, but rather what he could PROVE by fusing with Odium. Or what could be proven by fusing with Odium. Something to consider as well is that Dalinar is backed into a position of playing a long game with beings who he KNOWS can see into the future into varying degrees.....so it could be argued his best chance of success with a longterm plan is to be as vague or misleading about his actual goals as possible in the here and now or planning stages. That way, Shards looking far down the road to possible outcomes could feasibly mistake a future where things work out as Dalinar's hoping as one possibility if things happened to play out according to various random factors.....rather than in the way they THINK he's planning for things to work out.....which is what they might actually be working to avoid or keep from coming about.

This way, any Shards who might feel threatened here and now by Dalinar's actual endgoals have a mistaken impression of which are just possible outcomes of his actions and which are his HOPED FOR outcomes.....and thus might be inclined to let his experiment play out in curiosity as to whether Honor can take anything positive away from the experience of being one with Odium.....rather than be wary of letting his experiment continue past its early stages at all, because they would be personally invested in nipping it in the bud as well, if they realized what he was actually trying to prove.

The key for me lies in all the speculation we've done over the years about a possible union of Shards leading to Dalinar becoming something like Unity. Because his entire character arc lies in being a Bondsmith. In the importance of the power of Connection....which arguably is just as vital a component of being a Bondsmith as the actual Surges of Adhesion and Tension are. After all, Dalinar's story is ultimately a redemption storyline....it just doesn't always present that way because we came into it in the middle of it, our introduction to him and initial impressions of him were definitively NOT when he was at his worst. Odium originally intended for him to be HIS Champion. The Champion of divine wrath and hatred, absent of any further meaning or focus or external Intent. (And uh, it can be argued how effective or complete that redemption arc is, but the shape of it is there is what I'm saying).

Dalinar's theme is about how vital the power of Connection is....of forging bonds not for the sake of keeping Oaths but with the aim to actually change for the better, to make those oaths MEAN something, a Connection intended to build upon rather than simply exist for its own sake.....this is a crucial component in a quest TO improve for the better. Connection might not be a Shard of divine power or Intent in and of itself.....but its nevertheless a fundamental cornerstone of the cosmere and its many magics and people. And as a Bondsmith, he learned how the more people he brings together, the more different individualized experiences and goals and yes...INTENTS....are bound together with strong Connections that benefit them all, that all are equally Invested in.....the better the future that can be made for everyone. The better that everyone's needs can be met, their circumstances improved upon.

Its certainly been speculated before, that this is an endgoal of certain characters, and I think there's arguments to be made about which characters actually have this specific endgoal and which are aiming for others....but Dalinar I believe at this point had the true endgoal of unifying ALL the Shards in the distant future. I believe his gambit is actually meant to slowburn a future in which as the cosmere increasingly descends into chaos, war and conflict between Shardworlds.....more and more of the Shards - even those who right NOW might be heavily against the idea of fusing with other Shards or reforming (or creating a new version) of the very force/being they once agreed NEEDED to be Shattered - might look to Dalinar's case study of Honor + Odium = Retribution and realize the necessity of it.

Because Odium, no matter how much Rayse might have WANTED to be Passion....was at the end of the day still a singular Shattered Intent of Ado. One sixteenth of him bereft of anything to contextualize that singular Intent. This also plays into my belief that the four Dawnshards are Exist (make things be), Weigh (make things matter), Move (make things move) and Change (make things change). Two fundamental forces that are about the base matter of things, the inherent potential (Exist) and the capacity for deeper meaning, to bind existence to something more or greater than just the mere substance of itself, or bind pieces of existence to each other in order that THEY can contextualize each other in ways that make them more than they are singularly (Weigh)....and two that are about the energy of things, the capacity for things to advance from the point of their initial creation or their initial stance, go somewhere beyond where they first exist or how much they matter INITIALLY....the base instruction to put things that Exist and Weigh into motion (Move), make them go, make them DO things other than just BE....and the potential for the interactions of these things to make alterations to their initial states so they can transform into other or more than they initially were (Change) and thus all combine to let the cosmere, let creation, grow beyond what it was initially conceived as....and thereby see what everything you commanded to just Be....can now in turn Become. 

I've always believed in the idea that the sixteen Shards correlate four to the four Dawnshards. That each Primal Command has four associated Shards that are not smaller components of that Command itself....but rather that because the Dawnshards were used as a weapon to kill Ado/Shatter him into the Shards.....each has four Shards that are DERIVED from the impact of one of those four Commands being weaponized against the Creator. I think there's an impression of the Shattering having been the result of ONE impact from the weapon the original Vessels wielded against Ado....but I think it was four simultaneous impacts, from each of the Dawnshards being hurled as a Primal Command against Ado at the same time.

Brandon's always said that Ado could have Shattered into different Intents than the Shards we actually got. Its been suggested that the original Vessels themselves had SOMETHING to do with what sixteen Intents it Shattered into, not necessarily deliberately but with the original natures of Ado's killers playing a focusing role in where the "lines" defining the edges of each Shardic Intent ended up drawn. But I think it wasn't just that....it also had to do with who wielded each Dawnshard. If different individuals had been using different Dawnshards, even with all the same players involved, the Shattering could have still resulted in different Shardic Intents. The combination of who wielded which Command had to do with where each Dawnshard impacted the initial whole of Ado/Adonalsium....and the sixteen initial Vessels who stepped forward to claim all that suddenly fractured power focused the sixteen Shards it stabilized as into the specific Intents we ended up with.

And so the four groups of four IMO aren't about which Shards are a smaller Aspect or kind of Aspect of the four Dawnshards....they're about which Shards are the RESULT of which Dawnshard creating a fracture line within Adonalsium, Shattering it into four smaller Shards along each of those fracture lines.

The relevance I'm going for comes from picturing it this way:

The Dawnshards are Primal Commands, most likely meant to be used in concert to create. First you Command something to Exist, to simply spring into being. Then you Command that Existence to have Weight, have meaning, have purpose, then you Command that Purposeful Existence to Move, to act, to do something, anything, and then you Command that Purposeful and Moving Existence to Change, to have all those ingredients combine to take that which was Created and let it continuously become something new, something more or just other than it was initially Created to be.

These Primal Commands are powerful enough that they can even be used to Command the cosmere God, the initial Creator. Somewhat tangentially, its long been said that one of these Commands can be used to destroy, even though they're the power of creation, essentially. I believe this Dawnshard is Change - even though its explicitly been stated that Change is a Primal Command to remake something in a positive way....absent of any other context, used just on itself without any of the other Dawnshards, Change does effectively destroy something by the very act of remaking it. It might still exist, but the thing it previously existed as, the way it previously existed, is now destroyed. Even if Change was used on its own against Adonalsium, it would have remade it, likely for the better....but the being that was originally Ado or Adonalsium, pre-Change, would still be destroyed in a sense. The reason Change alone wasn't used against Ado/Adonalsium IMO is because they didn't just want it to be better if it meant it would still be its full, total power just in another form or state.....if the reason they wanted to kill Ado was because they didn't want all that power in the hands of one being. For that, they needed the power to be divided into smaller pieces and put in multiple hands. Change alone wasn't going to address the problem.

We also have the problem that Exist CAN'T be used to destroy. Its not a matter of whether its being wielded by a mortal or a deity....the very nature of the Command means that it can't be used to negate, kill, make something NOT exist. For the record, while Change is I think the Dawnshard noted for being able to destroy, I think Exist is the one that is supposed to be distinct from the other three. Because it's essentially a Passive Command. Its necessary for pieces of Creation to Be so that the other three can act UPON those pieces and actually, well, create....making it the bedrock of the cosmere. But whether you call the Dawnshard known to bind all creatures "Weigh" or "Connect" or "Have Meaning" or "Be Purposeful"....its still an Active Command that acts UPON whatever Exists....just as Move and Change do.

Regardless, the point is the Dawnshards are Primal Commands that were powerful enough to even affect the Creator, and somehow used to kill him. How?

I think it was exactly as simple as it sounds:

Rather than being used as part of a PROCESS to Create....they were used to Command Adonalsium to do four fundamentally different things ALL AT THE SAME TIME. And the act of trying to fulfill all four of those Commands simultaneously is what Shattered Adonalsium along four fracture lines, subdividing from there into four groups of four Shards that each in their own way, by their own Intent, tried to carry out what the Dawnshards Commanded.

And so there are four Shards that encompass a piece of Adonalsium's innate nature, some inherent potential within him, fundamental to his Existence:

A capacity for divine wrath or hatred (Odium). The potential for well-thought through deliberations (Reason). Natural artistic spirit (Virtuosity). A well of courage in the face of adversity (Valor).

These are four pieces of Adonalsium that Exist, regardless of any outside contexts. They can be the source of actions, drive particular pursuits, but they do not require anything else TO Exist, other than a Command to just Be.

Then there are four Shards that are the fractured results of Adonalsium's attempt to fulfill a Primal Command to Weigh/Connect/Bind. A Command that requires something reach beyond itself TO something else....and forge a kind of connection, lashing, a grounding....to something other than what it itself already Exists AS:

One's ability to adhere to an Oath or code of conduct, a specific standard or ideal (Honor). One's desire to direct focus to some specific individual, cause, pursuit and make it the entirety of your existence (Devotion). One's desire to connect all things beneath one's own oversight, to completely govern how one connects to all other things and how other things connect in turn, the desire to master others, skills, oneself (Dominion). One's capacity to connect to someone or something from a higher state within a specific power imbalance or dynamic, to Exist as having power over something else, whether innate or situational, and withhold from wielding that greater power or advantage as fully or negatively as they theoretically could (Mercy).

These are four pieces of Adonalsium that REQUIRE context to something else in order to have actual meaning or form. Mercy is relative to the person or thing one is being merciful towards, the situation, the power differential...all of that shapes and defines a specific Connection or Binding between One With Power and One Without Power. Honor can not exist in a vacuum, it needs a standard to be compared to in order to determine if one is actually BEING Honorable or not. Devotion similarly demands a focal object that you be devoted to, a specific connection, and Dominion is all about bringing things under your mastery, be it in the abstract or in violent conquest.

Then there are four Shards that are the fractured results of Adonalsium's attempt to fulfill a Primal Command to Move. A Command to somehow or in some way go from a Point A to Point B. It demands a trajectory, though not necessarily a specific trajectory. You can not obey this Command without going in a direction, any direction:

A self-determined direction (Autonomy). A net end-negative direction (Ruin). A direction towards a specific goal (Ambition). A direction bereft of planning or calculation, the divine urge to Move or Move Things but not towards a specific goal but rather according to the randomness of chance (Whimsy).

These are pieces of the Primal Mover that embody all the things inherent within Adonalsium that governed how he might WANT to move himself or parts of creation. Autonomously, towards Ruin, with Ambition, or according to Whimsy. Notably, the Change Dawnshard is spoken about having an implicit subcommand of positive (or additive, theoretically) Change. Move however, can result in actions that lead in any direction, not just forward-facing trajectories or progress. Thus Shards that have the capacity for regression have to (IMO) be the result of Adonalsium's attempt to fulfill a directive to Move, rather than Change. Ruin is a form of change, but entropic change only. It CAN'T be additive Change. But it still Moves.

Finally we have the four Shards that are the fractured results of Adonalsium's attempt to fulfill the Primal Command to Change. Which again, is specifically denoted as a positive remaking or advancement....it has a specific direction through time as well as space.

The intention of adding or bequeathing gifts, power, or something else to an individual, system or society that by its very addition induces change (Endowment). The application of a spark of genius or innovation to base materials or ideas that remake the sum of these parts into something new or useful (Invention). The careful planning or nourishing of things, civilizations, ideas over time in order to foster or encourage growth (Cultivation). The choice to use added energy or resources to induce Change that combats negative change or movement (Preservation).

That last one will likely be the most controversial of my alignments, and it is admittedly the one I'm least confident about. THEORETICALLY, Whimsy and Preservation might be swapped. My reasoning for it being this way is Preservation, despite being associated with stagnation due to its opposition to Ruin.....is not something inherent or something that CAN just Exist. Its a maintaining of Existing Bindings or Connections as they already are, but not a response to a directive to Bind....and it has a direction/trajectory that is directly oppositional to entropic decay of a system....but ultimately, its an action. An application of energy, resources, Investiture aimed at constant refreshment or Change FROM any onset of entropy or Ruin....the inherent remaking of the process of unmaking. The divine urge to look at a longterm plan for entropy, decay or ruin, natural pre-planned trajectories, and ACTIVELY decide instead to work or apply the Intent to keep things as they are, even if just a little longer. You can not preserve things in a vacuum, because the very act of preservation requires additions to maintain.

(Again, this one is the weakest. I'm confident Preservation belongs under Move or Change, but it being under Change has as much to do with thinking Whimsy - which is not inherently a positive directed Change as whimsies can be negative, regressive or destructive - belongs under Move).

Anyway.

To bring this all back to the thread topic, and make a case for why I don't think this long-winded essay was just thread-drift:

I think Dalinar's longterm aim is not to make Honor better in and of himself, as a singular Shard....but to over time make a case to the other Shards that no matter the initial intentions behind the Shattering.....the individual Shards are worse off for not having each other as context that further focuses or reframes their singular Intents. As destructive or regressive as Retribution CAN be.....Odium will ALWAYS be worse on his own....because Odium is one of the Shards of Adonalsium that CAN NOT do anything other than Exist. It CANT ever be more than that on its own....because no matter how badly Rayse might have wanted to reframe or focus his Intent as Passion instead.....Odium is the result of Adonalsium trying to obey the Primal Command to Exist....and so Odium, alone, will always ONLY ever Exist as exactly what it sprang into being as. The whole reason there are four Dawnshards is the Exist Dawnshard can not create a capacity for anything it Commands to Exist to ever Move, Change or Bind/Connect/Matter beyond that base state of Existence.

The ONLY thing that can alter the base nature of Odium - pure, undiluted, divine wrath or hatred bereft of all meaning, all direction, any attempt to change - the ONLY thing that can ever reframe or focus it to any degree, mitigate its danger in ANY way....is the addition of an external catalyst....a second Shard whose Intent can combine with Odium's own and thus shift the margins delineating the shape and form of those Shards, where one ends and the other begins.

Whether Rayse ever knew it or not, IMO, the reason Odium was so opposed to fusing or combining with any other Shards, adding their power to his own....is on a fundamental, primal level, the level at which Odium is still ultimately a finite piece of Adonalsium forever driven by the Primal Command that is the reason it exists.....the addition of any Shard's power would inevitably bring the addition of at least some of that Shard's Intent....and the addition of ANY Intent outside of Odium....will inevitably reshape Odium in some ways. Alter, even to the tiniest degrees, the way in which Odium already Exists.

In a universe where Investiture is akin to matter and energy that can neither be created nor destroyed....the only way to ultimately combat or negate the threat of Investiture that is pure, unreasoning, uncompromising, primordial hatred for everything else....is to change the NATURE of that Investiture. And the only way to do that will always be limited to the addition of another Shardic Intent. The mere act of combining Odium (which Exists absent all else) with Honor (a fulfillment of the prime directive of binding to things outside of itself and thereby give Meaning to that which Exists)....forces that uncompromising divine hatred to be focused by a demand that something merit that hatred, deserve its wrath. Transforming both into divine vengeance. Retribution.

Something that is still dangerous in and of itself, arguably even moreso as it has less of Odium & Honor's limitations much in the way Harmony lacks some of Ruin & Preservation's.....but which can be further recontextualized by the addition of another Shard that brings more refinement.

For instance.....a Shard that previously has hid itself away in order to survive and is only now determining that this isn't the best approach, might look at the end results of this merging and Reason that the best path forward is not to focus on its own survival, but combine with Retribution and thereby turn its focus to Justice. Divine wrath and reason both bound together by honor.

Much like I suspect Harmony's hinted at imbalance might result in him becoming Discord in Mistborn Era 3....becoming another threat that can only effectively be combated by being merged with enough splinters of Autonomy that he becomes Balance, the self-regulation of dueling aspects of one's own nature.

Even if many of the Shards are currently governed more by self interest and not remotely interested in fusing with each other, ultimately I think THAT is Dalinar's final move. The importance of Connection as a Bondsmith leading him to realize the best thing for the cosmere is to convince as many of the Shards as possible that they have to turn their focus to determining what Connections they can make with each other or some of the worst or most destructive Shards in order to not recreate Adonalsium, but create new or larger wholes that are more deliberate combinations of the pieces it Shattered into in ways that won't necessarily just reconstitute the original picture as it looked when they Shattered Adonalsium....but create a new whole that is the sum of themselves, stitched into a brand new tapestry formed of their singular Threads of Intent.

Edited December 11, 2024 by TheoreticalMagic
disclaimer added to start

[Elder]

Dalinar’s stated purpose is to UNITE THEM.  Running theme in the book: these shards are divorced from the context that they were meant to give each other.  Yes, the combination of Honor and Odium into retribution is a problem.  The combination of Ruin and Preservation into Harmony has been a different problem.  But, you have to start somewhere.  The first step may be a disaster, but you have to take it and then take the next step.

Dalinar did more than just get the attention of the other shards.  He’s taken the first step in his true purpose: to unite them. Others will be taking the other steps.

[Ewery1]

7 hours ago, Elder said:

Dalinar’s stated purpose is to UNITE THEM.  Running theme in the book: these shards are divorced from the context that they were meant to give each other.  Yes, the combination of Honor and Odium into retribution is a problem.  The combination of Ruin and Preservation into Harmony has been a different problem.  But, you have to start somewhere.  The first step may be a disaster, but you have to take it and then take the next step.

Dalinar did more than just get the attention of the other shards.  He’s taken the first step in his true purpose: to unite them. Others will be taking the other steps.

Yes it makes me wonder if the Fundamental Question at the end of the Cosmere will be Unite them or further diffuse them?

[Elder]

3 minutes ago, Ewery1 said:

Yes it makes me wonder if the Fundamental Question at the end of the Cosmere will be Unite them or further diffuse them?

Possibly also redefine them.  Develop some of those rougher attributes into something better and then combine them into a whole.

Rayse wanted to be Passion. Not just Odium. I think Ati wanted to be change. Perhaps the idea was to redefine the Shards all into something better.

Makes me wonder what the Dor will be.  I’m sure it’s starting to get ideas by now.

Edited December 12, 2024 by Elder