What exactly can be taken off Roshar now?

[+Oltux72 he/him]

From the text we know that mixed spren can leave. I think we can safely assume that pure Honorspren and pure Cultivationspren can also leave.

That leaves Voidspren, the Unmade and the Fused. Given her position it looks certain to me that Sja-Anat will, if she can, flee and looking at Ulim, I would reckon that he won't wait around for his boss to return and start a second attempt of eating him. Even a lot of ordinary sapient Spren should share that attitude. Where will they go?

And then the big question? Can Roshar export warlight?

[timeimp]

I think anything can leave now. 

Aux tells Sig when they’re leaving Roshar that it was the agreement between Honor/Cultivation/Odium binding them to the system, that was also binding spren and possibly their individual investitures to the system as well. 
 

I bet warlight could leave now in gemstones too. Possibly tower light if Navani and the Sibling can be woken up. 

[Necessary Eagle she/her]

Judging by this WoB, Radiants who become Radiants while on the planet Roshar are still stuck on Roshar. Though given the time dilation going on, "no one at this point has figured out how to do it" doesn't mean much, from their perspective it's probably only been days or weeks since the crem hit the fan.

[Heilven he/him]

10 hours ago, Oltux72 said:

From the text we know that mixed spren can leave. I think we can safely assume that pure Honorspren and pure Cultivationspren can also leave.

Just a small point of contention, "pure" honorspren and cultivationspren are still of both honor and cultivation. They are just more aligned with one or the other.

[logicless.bt]

4 minutes ago, Heilven said:

Just a small point of contention, "pure" honorspren and cultivationspren are still of both honor and cultivation. They are just more aligned with one or the other.

Isn't there a line in the Tanavast chapters that says "after creating seven, we each created one by ourselves"? And then the last one was like highspren

[Heilven he/him]

10 minutes ago, logicless.bt said:

Isn't there a line in the Tanavast chapters that says "after creating seven, we each created one by ourselves"? And then the last one was like highspren

Chapter 104, page 1001, paragraph 4:

"We decided to form 10 varieties. Ten because my power lived the symmetry. 10, because Kor loved me, and knew it would make me happy. We started when the first seven, then one variety was born of Kor alone. In counterpoint, and at her urging, I created one variety almost entirely on my own. My angels of Honor"

So clearly here it states that honorspren are not entirely of Honor, but I was incorrect about cultivationspren, at least from this description

[DangerousPants]

So that is 9 of the 10?  7+Honor+cultivation.  That matches with the 9 spren for Radiants plus the Bondsmith's unique 3.

So there is a 10th Spren type they made that isn't bonding?  

 

 

[logicless.bt]

47 minutes ago, Heilven said:

"We decided to form 10 varieties. Ten because my power lived the symmetry. 10, because Kor loved me, and knew it would make me happy. We started when the first seven, then one variety was born of Kor alone. In counterpoint, and at her urging, I created one variety almost entirely on my own. My angels of Honor"

So clearly here it states that honorspren are not entirely of Honor, but I was incorrect about cultivationspren, at least from this description

I see! We were both half right, since I didn't realize honorspren had some Cultivation in them.

This makes Lift even MORE interesting in the back half. Not only is she the only Radiant who can power Surges by herself, but she's also connected to the only spren that has no Honor in it and therefore no Retribution.

[DangerousPants]

That implies heavily, but doesn't actually state, that Cultivation is the rest of the "almost entirely" of presumably the Honorspren.  It would be a classic misdirect?   

The theorized 4th Roshar shard?  A native spren?  

 

Odium later states that he isn't able to make something real real, hence fake baby sleeping Galivar.  So honor isn't one of the Shards that can create, like Ruin (probably) isn't and accordingly needed Preservation to make something to destroy?  

 

A tangent thought:  Honor is still holding (or wanting to hold) Retribution to the deals it made while Honor (e.g. Oathpact).  That implies Harmony/Discord is still being held, from both ends perhaps, to the deal of "Destroy Scaldriel eventually" that both Preservation and Ruin made?  

Edited December 9, 2024 by DangerousPants

[Kardenal_13 he/him]

8 hours ago, Necessary Eagle said:

Judging by this WoB, Radiants who become Radiants while on the planet Roshar are still stuck on Roshar. Though given the time dilation going on, "no one at this point has figured out how to do it" doesn't mean much, from their perspective it's probably only been days or weeks since the crem hit the fan.

Since that WoB is from 2 years ago I would think that until someone asks it again or gets some other confirmation we should take "At this point in continuity" to mean Rhythm of War. Since we see Sigzil and Aux leaving Roshar at the end of the book I don't see why another pair couldn't use the same method (obvious nobody will be using Hoid's).

[+Oltux72 he/him]

8 hours ago, Necessary Eagle said:

Judging by this WoB, Radiants who become Radiants while on the planet Roshar are still stuck on Roshar.

Yes they are stuck, because the Oathgates have become inoperable and they have no idea where the perpendicularity is. The assumption that they are stuck because their spren are held back is our assumption. Brandon did not say it.

[Necessary Eagle she/her]

44 minutes ago, Kardenal_13 said:

Since that WoB is from 2 years ago I would think that until someone asks it again or gets some other confirmation we should take "At this point in continuity" to mean Rhythm of War. Since we see Sigzil and Aux leaving Roshar at the end of the book I don't see why another pair couldn't use the same method (obvious nobody will be using Hoid's).

Since the question was about The Lost Metal, I believe "this time" is the Era 2, which we already knew takes place during the time skip.

Sig and Aux left Roshar on the same caravan, but they weren't bonded yet. So Sig becoming a Skybreaker on another planet or in the depths of the CR wouldn't be what squirrelly ol' Brandon was negating.

[+robardin he/him]

1 hour ago, Oltux72 said:

Yes they are stuck, because the Oathgates have become inoperable and they have no idea where the perpendicularity is. The assumption that they are stuck because their spren are held back is our assumption. Brandon did not say it.

YES and i love the exact wording of that WoB to allow for what you say is one possible interpretation.

So, Radiants (and everybody else) in Urithiru are basically stuck there? Without functioning Oathgates, they would have to physically descend and then climb back up the mountain to get to anywhere else on Roshar, or vice versa. And even Windrunners would run out of Investiture in terms of flying down/up after a certain distance from the tower.

Fortunately with a living (enough) tower, they can still grow food and whatnot. But man it's going to be interesting.

 

[logicless.bt]

21 minutes ago, robardin said:

So, Radiants (and everybody else) in Urithiru are basically stuck there? Without functioning Oathgates, they would have to physically descend and then climb back up the mountain to get to anywhere else on Roshar, or vice versa. And even Windrunners would run out of Investiture in terms of flying down/up after a certain distance from the tower.

Navani and the Sibling trapped Urithiru in a glass bubble, so there's legitimately no way to get out

[+robardin he/him]

44 minutes ago, logicless.bt said:

Navani and the Sibling trapped Urithiru in a glass bubble, so there's legitimately no way to get out

Right, I forgot the bubble wasn't a figurative "dome of light" but physically and literally glowing crystal.

I wonder if Urithiru is itself location bound on Roshar any more? Like, maybe in the future Urithiru becomes a floating city in space or something. Wow!

[the_archduke]

1 hour ago, robardin said:

 

Fortunately with a living (enough) tower, they can still grow food and whatnot. But man it's going to be interesting.

 

Didn't Renarin see Urithiru in one of his visions where they were growing food on the Oathgate platforms?

[+Oltux72 he/him]

2 hours ago, logicless.bt said:

Navani and the Sibling trapped Urithiru in a glass bubble, so there's legitimately no way to get out

Until Jasnah learns how to make an elsegate or they get desperate enough to try anti-Towerlight to blow a hole into the bubble.

1 hour ago, the_archduke said:

Didn't Renarin see Urithiru in one of his visions where they were growing food on the Oathgate platforms?

Yes. That takes time. Also Shallan is visibly pregnant when she gets there. The state of isolation must take at least multiple months.

There is something far more worrying. According to the meeting spanreeds remained inoperative and Radiants powerless even after more than a month. That really suggests that either Warlight does not work for them or that they don't have any of it.
That is very troublesome.