Nightblood: The Ultimate Theory

[CtrlAltDepressed]

Hello All,

 

**SPOILERS FOR EVERYTHING**

 

There are many questions floating around in the Cosmere, most of which wont have answers for years. One, however, has constantly nagged at me. 

 

Why is Nightblood the way that he is?

 

Things we know (I will try to find the wobs for these later, please correct if wrong):

• Nightblood was normal steel before being awakened
• Shasharra was the one who performed the awakening
• Nightblood did not start leaking black smoke until after he was used to kill Shasharra
  • Its unclear if he functioned the same way before this moment. However, the fact that his sheath of aluminum was made some time after his creation implies the death of Shasharra 'broke' Nightblood in some way, and led to his unique existence.
• Nightblood contains Ruins investiture
  • could be that he has eaten Scadrians, but there is a wob that implies this is not the case (up for debate)
• Due to the steel he is made of absorbing so much investiture, Nightblood can be considered a god metal
• Nightblood, currently, could NOT be used as a spike - he is too invested
• Excess investiture Nightblood consumes leaks as black smoke 
• Endowment was involved in Nightbloods creation 'more than normal'

 

Alright, for the theory:

Nightblood was very similar to Vivennas current blade when awakened. He replicated a shardblade, but was not the destructive monster we see now. His mind was not nearly as advanced, and he did not need / forcibly consume anything he comes into contact with. These are assumptions on how Vivennas blade works just based on the limited interaction we have had with her blade. 

 

Since Nightblood was awakened with 1000 breaths, he was significantly invested upon his creation and would have been considered a god metal at that point.

 

When Vasher killed Shasharra with Nightblood, his intention was to kill her. He wanted to take her Returned life. His intention, in a way, was to steal her Divine Breath. 

 

I propose that Nightblood was used as a spike when he killed Shasharra. Vasher did not mean to use Nightblood as a spike, but his intention WAS to take Shasharras Divine breath. 

 

If we take this proposal as fact, a LOT of things start to line up. 

 

Nightblood is incredibly aware compared to all other awakenings we have seen. This makes sense if he is an artificial Returned. He has the full soul of a real person, but is constrained to the physicality of a sword. This leads to his issues with time and continuity. 

This also makes sense for why he MUST consume investiture constantly. He must sustain his Divine Breath. If this is the case, why does he consume so much? Nightblood is not a person. He is a sword, so he has no natural limiter for 'i am full' or 'im healthy again' like we see with Lightsong. 

Lightsong is in a persons body and is disgusted by needing weekly breaths. He only gets another when he absolutely is about to die. Nightblood would have no measure for this other than completely full, and thus consumes extreme amounts whenever he is even slightly below full. 

If he was briefly a spike, Nightblood would absolutely contain Ruin's investiture as we suspect (know?) that spikes either slightly or fully spin the investiture contained into Ruins. 

This would also explain Endowments involvement. Its clear Vasher and Shasharra had no idea that Endowment was involved, so how does this line up?

We know Endowment is in control of the Returned. To what extent, we arent exactly sure, but she is actively involved. Endowment allowed Nightblood to keep the Divine breath that he stole from Shasharra. Endowment could have easily reverted this, or prevented it, but didnt. We know Endowment has great future sight and has plans on plans. Clearly allowing Nightblood to live is a part of her plans. 

 

Let me know your alls thoughts! Do you think this possible?

 

Wobs:

Spoiler

Questioner

Was Nightblood a metalmind or a Hemalurgic spike originally?

Brandon Sanderson

No. Great question!

Spoiler

Questioner

Could Nightblood theoretically be turned into a Hemalurgic spike?

Brandon Sanderson

The problem with that is that Nightblood is already invested, so it depends on your version of ' Hemalurgic spikes'. Piercing someone's body with Invested metal can have weird effects all through the Cosmere, but ripping off a piece of a person's soul using an un-Invested spike to Invest it and create one is different... we're talking about two different things, right. So there's the.... so what is a Hemalurgic spike? For instance if you've got a spike that's Invested and you stick it into a Kandra on Scadrial it will still work as an Invested Hemalurgic spike. Making a new Invested spike by ripping off a person's soul, that's a different process and a little more difficult to accomplish and requires some specialized knowledge.

Spoiler

Kael_the_Adventurer

Did Nightblood's Awakening transform it into a God Metal?

Brandon Sanderson

*hesitant* Yes, you could say that.

Adam Horne

Was that a permanent change, or was that just while...

Brandon Sanderson

You can argue that Nightblood is a God Metal. Is he? You could argue otherwise as well. How about that?

Spoiler

Walin

Does Nightblood contain any of Ruin's Investiture? Like, not atium, but...

Brandon Sanderson

Yes, technically; and I'm not wiggling around that, because technically, location in the Cosmere and who belongs to what gets really weird, right? Because Ruin's Investiture is everywhere--but I'm not talking that way. I'm talking the way you actually mean it. 

Spoiler

OrangeJedi

When Nightblood created, was Endowment involved in any way more than normal?

Brandon Sanderson

Good question, you qualified that the right way! I would say yes, but maybe not to the extent you're thinking.

OrangeJedi

Normal being using Endowment's Investiture to Awaken. There's something special.

Brandon Sanderson

I would say, there is something special.

 

[listerfeend]

41 minutes ago, CtrlAltDepressed said:

Nightblood, currently, could NOT be used as a spike - he is too invested

 

41 minutes ago, CtrlAltDepressed said:

Since Nightblood was awakened with 1000 breaths, he was significantly invested upon his creation and would have been considered a god metal at that point.

Wouldn't Nightblood be too invested, with 1000 breaths, to be used as a spike? I'm pretty sure that much investiture would resist the amounts of investiture a spike would be taking. That doesn't completely invalidate the theory, however. It's possible that, pre-murder of Shashara, Nightblood DID consume investiture, just not in the same way that we've seen it consume now. Maybe Nightblood consumed Shasharra's Divine Breath, and, somehow, that Breath stuck to it, and changed the way Nightblood operates?

[Grubfriend He/Him]

37 minutes ago, CtrlAltDepressed said:

Nightblood was normal steel before being awakened

I found a WOB that seems to say it was steel

Spoiler

If the only variable we change, during the creation of Nightblood, is to use a different Allomantically-viable metal (say, iron or bronze instead of steel), but keep everything else constant (the same Breaths, same people doing the same visualization, and whatever other factors were involved), would it have manifested different powers/capabilities?

Brandon Sanderson

Yes. Most likely.

 

38 minutes ago, CtrlAltDepressed said:

When Vasher killed Shasharra with Nightblood, his intention was to kill her. He wanted to take her Returned life. His intention, in a way, was to steal her Divine Breath. 

 

I propose that Nightblood was used as a spike when he killed Shasharra. Vasher did not mean to use Nightblood as a spike, but his intention WAS to take Shasharras Divine breath. 

 

But steel can't steel Breaths (hehe) it can only steal physical Allomancy. For some reason steel lets Nightblood do what he does

 

41 minutes ago, CtrlAltDepressed said:

This also makes sense for why he MUST consume investiture constantly. He must sustain his Divine Breath. If this is the case, why does he consume so much? Nightblood is not a person. He is a sword, so he has no natural limiter for 'i am full' or 'im healthy again' like we see with Lightsong. 

Lightsong is in a persons body and is disgusted by needing weekly breaths. He only gets another when he absolutely is about to die. Nightblood would have no measure for this other than completely full, and thus consumes extreme amounts whenever he is even slightly below full. 

I think there are mentions of how because Awakening stuff that was never alive is weird because it doesn't follow the same laws or thoughts we have. Might have been in Warbreaker in reference to Awakening those things but still fits I think.

[CtrlAltDepressed]

12 minutes ago, Xiahida said:

But steel can't steel Breaths (hehe) it can only steal physical Allomancy. For some reason steel lets Nightblood do what he does

Sorry I should have been more clear in my post. 

 

This is what im proposing:

Nightblood was normal steel

He was awakened originally with 1000 breaths

Once that was done, he was no longer normal steel because he contained 1000 breaths and could be considered a god metal

Since he was a god metal, which we know can be used for spikes, his hemalurgic effect would be unknown

16 minutes ago, listerfeend said:

Wouldn't Nightblood be too invested, with 1000 breaths, to be used as a spike? I'm pretty sure that much investiture would resist the amounts of investiture a spike would be taking.

Absolutely it would be difficult, but we know that pure god metals can be used as spikes (lerasium + atium). The pure physical form of a god metal is the ceiling of investiture concentration. Nightblood cant hold more than being pure investiture so he absolutely would have been able to be used as a spike when he had only 1000 breaths.

Edited November 19, 2024 by CtrlAltDepressed

[listerfeend]

25 minutes ago, CtrlAltDepressed said:

Absolutely it would be difficult, but we know that pure god metals can be used as spikes (lerasium + atium). The pure physical form of a god metal is the ceiling of investiture concentration. Nightblood cant hold more than being pure investiture so he absolutely would have been able to be used as a spike when he had only 1000 breaths.

I sort of feel like true God Metals get a pass on the hemalurgy front due to their nature of being God Metals, and Nightblood could be considered a God Metal, but there is an argument to be made that it isn't one. I think that the mechanism by which Nightblood became Nightblood, from whatever it was prior to the murder of Sashara, might be similar to this, but not exactly hemalurgy. Although, until we have any more information from Brando, this is as likely as any other series of events, I think

 

[Returned he/him]

I love the theory and have a couple of ideas:

1. I think that the assumption that Nightblood was normal steel is not well established, nor even really suggested. The WoB that @Xiahida posted doesn't read, to me, as confirming that Nightblood was steel, only that Nightblood is probably an Allomantically viable metal like steel is, and that the properties Nightblood has would be different depending on the specific Allomantic metal used. I still like my theory that Nightblood as at least partly made of atium, so feel free to consider me biased in my interpretation of this item.
2. I'm not sold on Nightblood functioning as a Hemalurgic spike in the sense we normally mean. The thousand breath item would seem to preclude it. If the only reason this point is considered is because we know that there is some special application of Ruin's Investiture (and you dislike my atium-alloy theory), I would lean towards suggesting that we still don't know how or why Ruin's influence is present.
3. I am 100% sold on the idea that Shasharra's divine Breath was consumed by Nightblood and now persists in the sword. It does explain a lot, though not everything. The key items we don't know are how long the longest period without consuming Investiture was, nor the consequences of an already-Awakened sword's divine breath being starved. With 1,000 Breaths it would seem that Nightblood could go a long time without consuming more, but the base investment of those breaths to Awaken in the first place suggests to me that there would be some consequence to those Breaths being consumed. Things that the idea does explain include why Nightblood seems capable of some degree of change over time, in defiance of Vasher's certainty that Awakend objects cannot change in this way.
4. I think that the "Nightblood is functionally a godmetal" is consistently overinterpreted. We don't have all that solid a grasp on what this would mean, and consequently it's unsurprising that people would attach all sorts of specific meanings to this. My interpretation (no better than anyone else's) is that Nightblood is so outrageously Invested that he pierces all three realms, not unlike how Dalinar's on-demand perpendicularities work. This would explain why Nightblood consumes everything upon even the smallest nick from his blade while Vivenna's sword only drains color. If you are destroyed by Nightblood, you are thoroughly and utterly destroyed in every way.
5. Nightblood's smoke is black, which is the most potent color for Awakeners. If he were consuming color like Vivenna's sword he should drain color, not return it. I read this as him being a complete, localized Investiture cycle. The alternatives I can think of offhand are more strange and suggest that Nightblood is constantly overfull and constantly leaking excess Investiture. This is possible but seems like an odd fit to me, particularly after what we see in the Battle of Thaylen City (though I'm near to re-reading that section and may have forgotten details. If I see something that would alter this point I will come back and comment on it).
6. Nightblood's Intent is badly messed up. He was created with a specific one, if open to interpretation, but his reliance on his wielder to define evil adds even more malleability to it. If he stole Shasharra's divine Breath he might also have incorporated whatever she Returned for. But stealing a divine Breath would be the opposite of how Endowment operates, which surely must interfere with a being fundamentally comprised on Endowment's power.

[Trusk'our he/him]

1 hour ago, CtrlAltDepressed said:

This also makes sense for why he MUST consume investiture constantly. He must sustain his Divine Breath. If this is the case, why does he consume so much? Nightblood is not a person. He is a sword, so he has no natural limiter for 'i am full' or 'im healthy again' like we see with Lightsong. 

I do not believe this to be the case.

Returned must feed on Investiture not to sustain their Divine Breath, but because they are Cognitive Shadows. 

Hemalurgically spiking a Divine Breath wouldn't require extra Investiture if it were given to a non-shadow.

Spoiler

https://wob.coppermind.net/events/406-general-reddit-2020/#e14149

Haverworthy

Just had a question, when a Returned consumes a Breath, is it a property of their body that does so or the Divine Breath itself? It's been contentious in the community. If it's specifically just their body and a hemalurgist were to spike a Divine Breath as indicated was possible here*, would the hemalurgist not need to consume a weekly breath?

*https://wob.coppermind.net/events/364/#e11389

Brandon Sanderson

That's a very interesting question. The thing that requires the Returned to continue gaining investiture is their nature as cognitive shadows--they are dead, and in this case, need a power source to continue persisting in the physical realm. The Divine Breath is part of this. Imagine the Divine Breath as the thing that Infuses their soul, making it persist initially, and then and sticks it to the body. So if you stole it, but you yourself were not in need of being kept alive, I would say that you wouldn't need to be fed a new breath each week to maintain the Divine Breath.

I think both Nightblood and Azure's blade feed on Investiture as a natural component of their Commands. Nightblood is seen to stop being able to destroy matter when not actively feeding on Investiture in Warbreaker when Vasher has to drop the sword.

Furthermore, I think Nightblood uses Ruin's Investiture because of the Command used, corrupting other Investiture like Hemalurgic spikes seem to (most likely as a unique quirk of Ruin's Intent, much like how Endowment's Investiture is easy to leave Nalthis or Autonomy's repells other Investitures).

[+Lewis Nethur He/Him]

2 hours ago, CtrlAltDepressed said:

Hello All,

 

**SPOILERS FOR EVERYTHING**

 

There are many questions floating around in the Cosmere, most of which wont have answers for years. One, however, has constantly nagged at me. 

 

Why is Nightblood the way that he is?

 

Things we know (I will try to find the wobs for these later, please correct if wrong):

• Nightblood was normal steel before being awakened
• Shasharra was the one who performed the awakening
• Nightblood did not start leaking black smoke until after he was used to kill Shasharra
  • Its unclear if he functioned the same way before this moment. However, the fact that his sheath of aluminum was made some time after his creation implies the death of Shasharra 'broke' Nightblood in some way, and led to his unique existence.
• Nightblood contains Ruins investiture
  • could be that he has eaten Scadrians, but there is a wob that implies this is not the case (up for debate)
• Due to the steel he is made of absorbing so much investiture, Nightblood can be considered a god metal
• Nightblood, currently, could NOT be used as a spike - he is too invested
• Excess investiture Nightblood consumes leaks as black smoke 
• Endowment was involved in Nightbloods creation 'more than normal'

 

Alright, for the theory:

Nightblood was very similar to Vivennas current blade when awakened. He replicated a shardblade, but was not the destructive monster we see now. His mind was not nearly as advanced, and he did not need / forcibly consume anything he comes into contact with. These are assumptions on how Vivennas blade works just based on the limited interaction we have had with her blade. 

 

Since Nightblood was awakened with 1000 breaths, he was significantly invested upon his creation and would have been considered a god metal at that point.

 

When Vasher killed Shasharra with Nightblood, his intention was to kill her. He wanted to take her Returned life. His intention, in a way, was to steal her Divine Breath. 

 

I propose that Nightblood was used as a spike when he killed Shasharra. Vasher did not mean to use Nightblood as a spike, but his intention WAS to take Shasharras Divine breath. 

 

If we take this proposal as fact, a LOT of things start to line up. 

 

Nightblood is incredibly aware compared to all other awakenings we have seen. This makes sense if he is an artificial Returned. He has the full soul of a real person, but is constrained to the physicality of a sword. This leads to his issues with time and continuity. 

This also makes sense for why he MUST consume investiture constantly. He must sustain his Divine Breath. If this is the case, why does he consume so much? Nightblood is not a person. He is a sword, so he has no natural limiter for 'i am full' or 'im healthy again' like we see with Lightsong. 

Lightsong is in a persons body and is disgusted by needing weekly breaths. He only gets another when he absolutely is about to die. Nightblood would have no measure for this other than completely full, and thus consumes extreme amounts whenever he is even slightly below full. 

If he was briefly a spike, Nightblood would absolutely contain Ruin's investiture as we suspect (know?) that spikes either slightly or fully spin the investiture contained into Ruins. 

This would also explain Endowments involvement. Its clear Vasher and Shasharra had no idea that Endowment was involved, so how does this line up?

We know Endowment is in control of the Returned. To what extent, we arent exactly sure, but she is actively involved. Endowment allowed Nightblood to keep the Divine breath that he stole from Shasharra. Endowment could have easily reverted this, or prevented it, but didnt. We know Endowment has great future sight and has plans on plans. Clearly allowing Nightblood to live is a part of her plans. 

 

Let me know your alls thoughts! Do you think this possible?

 

Wobs:

  Reveal hidden contents

Questioner

Was Nightblood a metalmind or a Hemalurgic spike originally?

Brandon Sanderson

No. Great question!

  Reveal hidden contents

Questioner

Could Nightblood theoretically be turned into a Hemalurgic spike?

Brandon Sanderson

The problem with that is that Nightblood is already invested, so it depends on your version of ' Hemalurgic spikes'. Piercing someone's body with Invested metal can have weird effects all through the Cosmere, but ripping off a piece of a person's soul using an un-Invested spike to Invest it and create one is different... we're talking about two different things, right. So there's the.... so what is a Hemalurgic spike? For instance if you've got a spike that's Invested and you stick it into a Kandra on Scadrial it will still work as an Invested Hemalurgic spike. Making a new Invested spike by ripping off a person's soul, that's a different process and a little more difficult to accomplish and requires some specialized knowledge.

  Reveal hidden contents

Kael_the_Adventurer

Did Nightblood's Awakening transform it into a God Metal?

Brandon Sanderson

*hesitant* Yes, you could say that.

Adam Horne

Was that a permanent change, or was that just while...

Brandon Sanderson

You can argue that Nightblood is a God Metal. Is he? You could argue otherwise as well. How about that?

  Reveal hidden contents

Walin

Does Nightblood contain any of Ruin's Investiture? Like, not atium, but...

Brandon Sanderson

Yes, technically; and I'm not wiggling around that, because technically, location in the Cosmere and who belongs to what gets really weird, right? Because Ruin's Investiture is everywhere--but I'm not talking that way. I'm talking the way you actually mean it. 

  Reveal hidden contents

OrangeJedi

When Nightblood created, was Endowment involved in any way more than normal?

Brandon Sanderson

Good question, you qualified that the right way! I would say yes, but maybe not to the extent you're thinking.

OrangeJedi

Normal being using Endowment's Investiture to Awaken. There's something special.

Brandon Sanderson

I would say, there is something special.

 

Alternate proposal:

shashara, who had intended to make MORE nightbloods if she had been allowed to live, used her last dying breath to endow him with her Divine Breath, as, in her dying moments she saw into the spiritual realm, and foresaw that this was Endowment's will, thereby transforming him from an ordinary super weapon, into the godkiller he has become.

What'd you think? I'm liking the overall cut of your jib on this, but I don't like the hemalurgy explanation.

[CtrlAltDepressed]

6 minutes ago, Lewis Nethur said:

What'd you think? I'm liking the overall cut of your jib on this, but I don't like the hemalurgy explanation.

I like this, but I see an issue. We know that divine breath cannot be used for awakening, so this would have had to be a healing. Im not sure how healing Nightblood gets him in his current situation, but its certainly possible, I think. 

47 minutes ago, Trusk'our said:

Hemalurgically spiking a Divine Breath wouldn't require extra Investiture if it were given to a non-shadow.

Is there no way that a sufficiently invested / awakened object would not mirror a cognitive shadow?

 

[+Lewis Nethur He/Him]

12 minutes ago, CtrlAltDepressed said:

I like this, but I see an issue. We know that divine breath cannot be used for awakening, so this would have had to be a healing. Im not sure how healing Nightblood gets him in his current situation, but its certainly possible, I think. 

Is there no way that a sufficiently invested / awakened object would not mirror a cognitive shadow?

 

No no, I don't mean that she awakened him with her divine breath, I mean that, as she was stabbed by him and dying, she realized that, while zhe could not create an army of nightbloods, she could say the words:

"My life to nightblood, my breath becomes nightblood's!"

Like a dying woman's ultimate curse on all whom she regarded as "evil." Transforming him from a pseudo shardblade, into the vampiric monstrosity that he is.

I may have to do some digging, but I wanna say that there are really old wobs that suggest divine breaths can do more than heal; they bring the recipient closer to the most perfect version of themselves.

Edited November 19, 2024 by Lewis Nethur

[Trusk'our he/him]

15 minutes ago, Lewis Nethur said:

I may have to do some digging, but I wanna say that there are really old wobs that suggest divine breaths can do more than heal; they bring the recipient closer to the most perfect version of themselves.

It is plausible that Divine Breaths can be used for other things, though nobody knows how to do it.

Spoiler

https://wob.coppermind.net/events/373-skyward-chicago-signing/#e12013

Questioner

When you transfer divine Breath, is it possible to have it result in something other than healing?

Brandon Sanderson

Lots of things are possible. Let's just say that that is not something people know how to do, and they have tried to do something else.

 

24 minutes ago, CtrlAltDepressed said:

Is there no way that a sufficiently invested / awakened object would not mirror a cognitive shadow?

I'm sure it's possible, but I doubt it will be the default scenario. 

A Cognitive Shadow needs the continuous influx of Investiture to live because their ties to the Realms are severed, leading to their souls passing into the Beyond. Spren and other Invested beings don't seem to have this issue. 

Spoiler

https://wob.coppermind.net/events/98-worldbuilders-ama/#e857

danimalod

I just read Shadows for Silence in the Forests of Hell and loved it. How did the first shade come to be? Are there shades in other worlds? Do shades have bones?

Brandon Sanderson

Shades are what we call "Cognitive Shadows" in the cosmere. They're basically "spren" or "[seons]" created from human souls. (Where Investiture--or magical power--keeps a consciousness alive after it has lost its Physical connection.) Yes, shades all once had bodies.

Think of them like petrified souls, where instead of stone replacing the tissue of a corpse, magical power replaced the parts of a soul that connect that soul to the Three Realms.

 

Edited November 19, 2024 by Trusk'our

[alder24]

4 hours ago, CtrlAltDepressed said:

Let me know your alls thoughts! Do you think this possible?

Well, I'm on board with the theory that Nightblood was accidentally used as a Hemalurgic spike to kill Shashara, that could have happened, but I doubt Vasher would have the correct intent - he just wanted to kill her to prevent the knowledge of creating Nightblood from getting into public. However, even if he had Shashara's Divine Breath in him, he would not need to feed it investiture because Divine Breaths only need investiture when they keep a body alive - Nightblood is a cold piece of metal, he doesn't have a living body. A Divine Breath isn't the soul itself, it's the nail that stamples the soul back to its body. I'm also not sure if Nightblood could access that Hemalurgic charge because he can't really spike himself with himself, can't he? And you need that to make the spike functional.

I highly doubt that Nightblood was like Vivenna's sword after creation. In fact, Brandon said that it might be impossible now to create another Nightblood and Vivenna's sword was specifically created via a different method not to become another Nightblood. If using it as a spike was all it took to make it into Nightblood, then this wouldn't make any sense. No, I believe Nightblood was like this since the moment of his creation. He might not be leaking the black smoke before his first use, but he wasn't changed by anything. We also don't know when his sheathe was added - it could have been made before Nightblood was made in anticipation.

Spoiler

LeFlshe

At Dragonsteel this year, you confirmed that Nightblood is not a Dawnshard. However, its abilities seem to be far greater than that of Vivenna’s blade, presumably made with the same method. This disparity may be due to the person who originally Awakened the swords and leads one to believe that Nightblood, despite not being the Dawnshard, had a Dawnshard involved in its creation. Therefore, is Shashara, the person who Awakened Nightblood, a Dawnshard?

Brandon Sanderson

Excellent questions. You’ve got one faulty premise: Vivenna’s sword was intentionally designed differently to not get another Nightblood. So let’s keep that in mind. That said, I don’t know that they could make another Nightblood if they wanted to. But she definitely did not want to, and there’s a different process that they use nowadays for safer swords.

Questioner 2

Is Vivenna’s sword better or worse than Nightblood?

Brandon Sanderson

Depends on what you want from the sword. Vivenna’s sword does not automatically suck the soul and Investiture out of anything it touches, disintegrating that which it touches, which is both a plus and a minus.

YouTube Spoiler Stream 6 (Dec. 19, 2023)

 

Spoiler

Brandon Sanderson

Anyway, Nightblood is named for the smoke he leaks, and he originally had a different name when he was created. Vasher himself dubbed the sword Nightblood after he had used it to kill the woman he loved. The blackness that leaks out is actually corrupted and consumed Breaths, the ones that Nightblood leeches off anyone who draws him.

Warbreaker Annotations (April 25, 2011)

 

Spoiler

Cadmium

With Nightblood. Was the sheath part of its construction when he was Awakened? Or was that kinda afterward?

Brandon Sanderson

The sheath is not part of its construction. Good question.

Cadmium

So... when the intent was placed on it, was the sheath there?

Brandon Sanderson

So-- The sheath was not relevant to that. The sheath was not part of the original Awakening, and it's not part of the intent or anything like that. I'm not saying it wasn't there ready for it, but it is not part of the sword. In the same way.

Cadmium

So, at some point we'll figure out why it learned to stop once its in the sheath?

Brandon Sanderson

Yes, kind of. It's a function of the sheath.

Oathbringer Houston signing (Nov. 18, 2017)

 

Spoiler

Haverworthy

Just had a question, when a Returned consumes a Breath, is it a property of their body that does so or the Divine Breath itself? It's been contentious in the community. If it's specifically just their body and a hemalurgist were to spike a Divine Breath as indicated was possible here*, would the hemalurgist not need to consume a weekly breath?

*https://wob.coppermind.net/events/364/#e11389

Brandon Sanderson

That's a very interesting question. The thing that requires the Returned to continue gaining investiture is their nature as cognitive shadows--they are dead, and in this case, need a power source to continue persisting in the physical realm. The Divine Breath is part of this. Imagine the Divine Breath as the thing that Infuses their soul, making it persist initially, and then and sticks it to the body. So if you stole it, but you yourself were not in need of being kept alive, I would say that you wouldn't need to be fed a new breath each week to maintain the Divine Breath.

General Reddit 2020 (Oct. 4, 2020)

 

Spoiler

Argent

When you say that the Returned are Cognitive Shadows, are they shadows of the people they were pre-death? In other words, is Lightsong Llarimar's Cognitive Shadow stapled to his body with a Divine Breath?

Brandon Sanderson

Yes, they are. (The evidence in the books is Lightsong obtaining some of the memories his pre-death soul had.)

Footnote: It’s likely that “Llarimar” is supposed to be “Stennimar”
Stormlight Three Update #6 (Jan. 20, 2017)

 

3 hours ago, Returned said:

I think that the assumption that Nightblood was normal steel is not well established, nor even really suggested.

Warbreaker ch 51:

Quote

A thousand Breaths. That was what it took to Awaken an object of steel and give it sentience.
[...]
She’d learned to forge the Breath of a thousand people into a piece of steel, Awaken it to sentience, and give it a Command.
[...]
How was an object of steel [...]

 

3 hours ago, Returned said:

If he were consuming color like Vivenna's sword he should drain color, not return it.

He does, but from his wielder. OB ch 119:

Quote

The assassin climbed unsteadily to his feet. His face was crisscrossed with lines where the vines had been. That somehow left his skin grey in streaks, the color of stone. Lift’s arms bore the same. Huh.

 

3 hours ago, Returned said:

The alternatives I can think of offhand are more strange and suggest that Nightblood is constantly overfull and constantly leaking excess Investiture.

He is.

Spoiler

lucagreene18

If Szeth were to have drawn Nightblood immediately after he had consumed Rayse, would he still have drained Szeth's Stormlight? As it said he seemed like he had eaten as much as he could.

Brandon Sanderson

At that point, Nightblood had entered into essentially a food coma... Well, no, the food coma one came when he was drawing from the perpendicularity. I don't think he was in food coma mode at that point. I think that he could still have drawn more at that point, I'd have to go look at exactly what I wrote, if I'd put him into food coma mode or not. It is possible.

This is one of the things I wanted to answer with the book. A lot of people have been theorizing, could Nightblood eat an entire Shard? And indeed, Nightblood could not eat an entire Shard. That is not within his capability. In fact, one of the reasons that he leaks Investiture is: he's too stuffed full of it. There is more Investiture in the sword Nightblood than it can actually hold, it's supersaturated. And it leaks Investiture (that it's done some weird things to). But it is constantly hungry for more and constantly leaks it, but it definitely can get full for a time, and it could not eat an entire Shard.

I did see questions about that from people floating around, and it's something I'd been meaning to get to eventually. Nightblood is definitely relevant to things that are happening in the Cosmere, but it is not as simple as grabbing the sword, sticking it into a Shard, and defeating the Shard, unfortunately. Though, as you see in this book, there are reasons for a Shard to still be afraid of Nightblood. It didn't destroy Odium, but Rayse still really had a bad time.

YouTube Spoiler Stream 1 (Dec. 17, 2020)

 

2 hours ago, Lewis Nethur said:

shashara, who had intended to make MORE nightbloods if she had been allowed to live, used her last dying breath to endow him with her Divine Breath, as, in her dying moments she saw into the spiritual realm, and foresaw that this was Endowment's will, thereby transforming him from an ordinary super weapon, into the godkiller he has become.

You can't transfer Divine Breaths, they always become kinetic and are used up when you do this.

Spoiler

Extesian

Can you give away a Divine Breath to another human? If so would they have the same powers as a Returned or would they just 'store' it like an inanimate object that Breath is stored in when not Awakened? Does a human require a 'crack' in their spirit web to receive a divine Breath?

Brandon Sanderson

So, a Divine Breath-- you're kind of going along the wrong direction on that line of reasoning. Divine Breaths cannot be transferred. When they are used they immediately become kinetic Investiture and are activated. This manifests normally as healing the person, both body, mind, and soul, but you can't give it up, transfer it in the same way you can regular Breaths.

Skype Q&A (Oct. 8, 2018)

[+Lewis Nethur He/Him]

44 minutes ago, alder24 said:

Well, I'm on board with the theory that Nightblood was accidentally used as a Hemalurgic spike to kill Shashara, that could have happened, but I doubt Vasher would have the correct intent - he just wanted to kill her to prevent the knowledge of creating Nightblood from getting into public. However, even if he had Shashara's Divine Breath in him, he would not need to feed it investiture because Divine Breaths only need investiture when they keep a body alive - Nightblood is a cold piece of metal, he doesn't have a living body. A Divine Breath isn't the soul itself, it's the nail that stamples the soul back to its body. I'm also not sure if Nightblood could access that Hemalurgic charge because he can't really spike himself with himself, can't he? And you need that to make the spike functional.

I highly doubt that Nightblood was like Vivenna's sword after creation. In fact, Brandon said that it might be impossible now to create another Nightblood and Vivenna's sword was specifically created via a different method not to become another Nightblood. If using it as a spike was all it took to make it into Nightblood, then this wouldn't make any sense. No, I believe Nightblood was like this since the moment of his creation. He might not be leaking the black smoke before his first use, but he wasn't changed by anything. We also don't know when his sheathe was added - it could have been made before Nightblood was made in anticipation.

  Reveal hidden contents

LeFlshe

At Dragonsteel this year, you confirmed that Nightblood is not a Dawnshard. However, its abilities seem to be far greater than that of Vivenna’s blade, presumably made with the same method. This disparity may be due to the person who originally Awakened the swords and leads one to believe that Nightblood, despite not being the Dawnshard, had a Dawnshard involved in its creation. Therefore, is Shashara, the person who Awakened Nightblood, a Dawnshard?

Brandon Sanderson

Excellent questions. You’ve got one faulty premise: Vivenna’s sword was intentionally designed differently to not get another Nightblood. So let’s keep that in mind. That said, I don’t know that they could make another Nightblood if they wanted to. But she definitely did not want to, and there’s a different process that they use nowadays for safer swords.

Questioner 2

Is Vivenna’s sword better or worse than Nightblood?

Brandon Sanderson

Depends on what you want from the sword. Vivenna’s sword does not automatically suck the soul and Investiture out of anything it touches, disintegrating that which it touches, which is both a plus and a minus.

YouTube Spoiler Stream 6 (Dec. 19, 2023)

 

  Reveal hidden contents

Brandon Sanderson

Anyway, Nightblood is named for the smoke he leaks, and he originally had a different name when he was created. Vasher himself dubbed the sword Nightblood after he had used it to kill the woman he loved. The blackness that leaks out is actually corrupted and consumed Breaths, the ones that Nightblood leeches off anyone who draws him.

Warbreaker Annotations (April 25, 2011)

 

  Reveal hidden contents

Cadmium

With Nightblood. Was the sheath part of its construction when he was Awakened? Or was that kinda afterward?

Brandon Sanderson

The sheath is not part of its construction. Good question.

Cadmium

So... when the intent was placed on it, was the sheath there?

Brandon Sanderson

So-- The sheath was not relevant to that. The sheath was not part of the original Awakening, and it's not part of the intent or anything like that. I'm not saying it wasn't there ready for it, but it is not part of the sword. In the same way.

Cadmium

So, at some point we'll figure out why it learned to stop once its in the sheath?

Brandon Sanderson

Yes, kind of. It's a function of the sheath.

Oathbringer Houston signing (Nov. 18, 2017)

 

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Haverworthy

Just had a question, when a Returned consumes a Breath, is it a property of their body that does so or the Divine Breath itself? It's been contentious in the community. If it's specifically just their body and a hemalurgist were to spike a Divine Breath as indicated was possible here*, would the hemalurgist not need to consume a weekly breath?

*https://wob.coppermind.net/events/364/#e11389

Brandon Sanderson

That's a very interesting question. The thing that requires the Returned to continue gaining investiture is their nature as cognitive shadows--they are dead, and in this case, need a power source to continue persisting in the physical realm. The Divine Breath is part of this. Imagine the Divine Breath as the thing that Infuses their soul, making it persist initially, and then and sticks it to the body. So if you stole it, but you yourself were not in need of being kept alive, I would say that you wouldn't need to be fed a new breath each week to maintain the Divine Breath.

General Reddit 2020 (Oct. 4, 2020)

 

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Argent

When you say that the Returned are Cognitive Shadows, are they shadows of the people they were pre-death? In other words, is Lightsong Llarimar's Cognitive Shadow stapled to his body with a Divine Breath?

Brandon Sanderson

Yes, they are. (The evidence in the books is Lightsong obtaining some of the memories his pre-death soul had.)

Footnote: It’s likely that “Llarimar” is supposed to be “Stennimar”
Stormlight Three Update #6 (Jan. 20, 2017)

 

Warbreaker ch 51:

 

He does, but from his wielder. OB ch 119:

 

He is.

  Reveal hidden contents

lucagreene18

If Szeth were to have drawn Nightblood immediately after he had consumed Rayse, would he still have drained Szeth's Stormlight? As it said he seemed like he had eaten as much as he could.

Brandon Sanderson

At that point, Nightblood had entered into essentially a food coma... Well, no, the food coma one came when he was drawing from the perpendicularity. I don't think he was in food coma mode at that point. I think that he could still have drawn more at that point, I'd have to go look at exactly what I wrote, if I'd put him into food coma mode or not. It is possible.

This is one of the things I wanted to answer with the book. A lot of people have been theorizing, could Nightblood eat an entire Shard? And indeed, Nightblood could not eat an entire Shard. That is not within his capability. In fact, one of the reasons that he leaks Investiture is: he's too stuffed full of it. There is more Investiture in the sword Nightblood than it can actually hold, it's supersaturated. And it leaks Investiture (that it's done some weird things to). But it is constantly hungry for more and constantly leaks it, but it definitely can get full for a time, and it could not eat an entire Shard.

I did see questions about that from people floating around, and it's something I'd been meaning to get to eventually. Nightblood is definitely relevant to things that are happening in the Cosmere, but it is not as simple as grabbing the sword, sticking it into a Shard, and defeating the Shard, unfortunately. Though, as you see in this book, there are reasons for a Shard to still be afraid of Nightblood. It didn't destroy Odium, but Rayse still really had a bad time.

YouTube Spoiler Stream 1 (Dec. 17, 2020)

 

You can't transfer Divine Breaths, they always become kinetic and are used up when you do this.

  Hide contents

Extesian

Can you give away a Divine Breath to another human? If so would they have the same powers as a Returned or would they just 'store' it like an inanimate object that Breath is stored in when not Awakened? Does a human require a 'crack' in their spirit web to receive a divine Breath?

Brandon Sanderson

So, a Divine Breath-- you're kind of going along the wrong direction on that line of reasoning. Divine Breaths cannot be transferred. When they are used they immediately become kinetic Investiture and are activated. This manifests normally as healing the person, both body, mind, and soul, but you can't give it up, transfer it in the same way you can regular Breaths.

Skype Q&A (Oct. 8, 2018)

I'm not sure what's not translating. I'm just suggesting that Shasharra treated nightblood as a person. He was her life's work, she's the only one who would have. And...if she had a living moment before dying, I earnestly feel that the only reasonable move on her part would have been to expend her divine breath to make him more powerful. Not unlike regrowing the God King's tongue. Does...does that make sense? I don't think nightblood is a returned or has a divine breath that he can use to change shape or anything insane like that...=/

 

Edit: wait...it's been a super long time since I read warbreaker. We all still agree Shasharra had a divine breath and that she was capable of expending it for a purpose of her choosing (resulting in instant death) at any moment of her choosing right...? If that's been countermanded by WoB I need to know.

Edited November 19, 2024 by Lewis Nethur

[Returned he/him]

29 minutes ago, alder24 said:

A thousand Breaths. That was what it took to Awaken an object of steel and give it sentience.
[...]
She’d learned to forge the Breath of a thousand people into a piece of steel, Awaken it to sentience, and give it a Command.
[...]
How was an object of steel [...]

I'm not really interested in getting into a deep a discussion on this, so I'll drop a few comments for consideration: there are many varieties of steel, which have different components, including other metals. I should have been clearer that it's not supported that Nightblood is made of Allomantic steel, which seems to be the same as carbon steel (the most common type), hence my use of the phrase "normal steel". There isn't any particular reason there could not be a variety of steel that incldues atium as one of its alloying elements. If you have a citation indicating that Nightblood is definitely, or probably, made from carbon steel then I will concede my atium theory forever.

We also cannot avoid the implications of the answer to the following question: how many times did people handle or burn atium in Mistborn era 1?

 

31 minutes ago, alder24 said:

He does, but from his wielder. OB ch 119:

Quote

The assassin climbed unsteadily to his feet. His face was crisscrossed with lines where the vines had been. That somehow left his skin grey in streaks, the color of stone. Lift’s arms bore the same. Huh.

You're focusing on the wrong element, though I appreciate the chance to refine my comment. It's the returning of Investiture that is interesting, especially if it is the most concentrated type related to Awakening (pure black Investiture)-- it's not a marginal effect, like water sublimating from ice, it's like chunks of ice falling away from the main body.

Nightblood utterly consumes the beings he cuts, draining their Investiture into himself and doing... something with the rest, and seems unable to actually use the Investiture. His action is often described as "eating" Investiture, but it doesn't seem to actually be consumed in any way, that we know of, just stored. The most obvious answer would be that he does consume Investiture, just at a rate that is irrelevant compared to how quickly he incorporates new Investiture into himself. That he also drains color from his wielder is undeniable, but unrelated to the phenomenon I was trying to point out.

43 minutes ago, alder24 said:

4 hours ago, Returned said:

The alternatives I can think of offhand are more strange and suggest that Nightblood is constantly overfull and constantly leaking excess Investiture.

He is.

As above, this is focusing on the wrong piece. Despite the constant loss, Nightblood's stock of Investiture never seems to decrease, though the obvious explanation is that he's got so much that we can't perceive degree of loss. It's one thing to say he's supersaturated, but Nightblood seems to be stably so, which isn't possible. Saying that a balloon is constantly filled with 200% of is maximum possible capacity is meaningless. I know, I know, magic, but the explanation simply doesn't fit. Reconcentration of Investiture across realms with Nightblood's physical form acting like a nozzle is as good as any other until we get more information. Saying that he is constantly filled beyond maximum capacity but could still draw in more is fundamentally internally inconsistent, at which point we can posit some magical mechanism that does it or simply accept that it doesn't make sense (with the information we currently have).

Additionally, the WoB you posted is pretty clear that this effect (to the extent that the analogy to supersaturation holds) is not the only reason for what we're seeing. It's the other possible elements that I was trying to prompt discussion on, not to end discussion with a partial explanation of what we see.