I’m pretty sure that this has been handled before, but I was wondering is it possible that Syl could become human or humanoid and be a love interest for Kaladin? Or is that not right?

[BenKenobi7333 He/Him/Mandalorian]

Just wondering.

[Treamayne]

On 11/11/2024 at 11:27 PM, BenKenobi7333 said:

Just wondering.

Please no.

Kaladin is likely Aromantic (our only Cosmere Aro representative - likely Demiromantic or Quoiromantic) and he does not need to be "fixed" (just as Jasnah does not need to be fixed of her Asexual Identity, or Renarin fixed of his homosexuality). There is nothing wrong with being Aro, and implying he needs a romantic relationship to be "normal" is a slap to those of us that prize his place in the Cosmere.

That said, your idea has been mentioned periodicially in many threads - usually under the thought that it will happen with the fifth oath. Some reference threads:

• Kaladin and Syl
• Ships
• Weirdest Ships
• Kaladin's Potential Ship

Hope that helps

Edited September 17, 2025 by Treamayne
Clarity/SPAG

[Duxredux he/him]

I'm not sure what you've read yet, so I'll just put this as larger Cosmere spoilers. This is mostly a commentary on mechanics. Yes, Syl can become humanoid and interact with Kaladin to varying degrees. We've seen at least two methods, and an incomplete third.

Spoiler

The easiest way for Syl to interact with Kaladin on a "physical level" as a full size humanoid is when they are both in Shadesmar. We see this in Oathbringer, where Syl can give Kaladin a hug when he feels like he's failing Dalinar. It's worth noting that Syl's face and features don't functionally correspond to the human equivalent, for example, her eyes and face are decorative, she doesn't actually use her "eyes" to see.

In YatNP (Yumi and the Nightmare Painter), we see that Hoid has devised a construct that allows Design to move around in a false female human body, flirt with Painter, and run a noodle shop. This is the second confirmed method, though this methodology or technology may not have been developed in Kaladin's era.

Third incomplete method is the one we see Ishar experimenting with at the end of RoW (Rhythm of War), which is to pull a spren into the Physical Realm where they manifest as a humanoid. We have not seen this work successfully as the spren generally dies within minutes of the transition, particularly if they do not have the necessary organ structure to sustain life in the Physical Realm. Ishar notes that Honorspren lived the longest of any of the test subjects.

Mechanically, it's possible, which is separate from discussing if it is probable. 

Same for whether or not it's possible for a spren to become a love interest. From a literary standpoint, people have formed romantic attachments to entities with far less personality and interactability than Syl. Kaladin's viewpoint in WoK (The Way of Kings) personified the spear as a tempting familiar lover. Again, possible is separate from probable.

Edited November 12, 2024 by Duxredux

[who_slew_aicirtap she/they]

3 hours ago, Treamayne said:

Kaladin is Aromantic

Is this canon? I've always thought of him that way, but I didn't think it had been explicitly confirmed.

[Treamayne]

21 minutes ago, who_slew_aicirtap said:

Is this canon? I've always thought of him that way, but I didn't think it had been explicitly confirmed.

In those words, no.

It seems fairly obvious to those with experience in those feelings, but I do not think Brandon has used the term Aromantic - just pointing out that Kaladin is not interested in relationships, especially at this point in his life. WoBs:

Spoiler

Quote

Questioner

Is Kaladin going to get a romance?

Brandon Sanderson

RAFO! Kaladin isn't the best with romance. I will take the implicit question, "Will he have a successful romance?" and that's your RAFO.

Legion Release Party (Sept. 19, 2018)

Quote

Questioner (paraphrased)

Please don't tell me you're going to do a love triangle between Adolin, Kaladin, and Shallan.

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

*carefully* I'm not a fan of the traditional love triangle. However, I am fond of conflict in relationships.

Words of Radiance Dayton signing (March 19, 2014)

Quote

Questioner

At the end of Oathbringer, or near the end, Kaladin is talking to Syl about not getting Shallan or whatever, and he says that she really just reminded him of someone, who is it that she reminded him of?

Brandon Sanderson

She reminded him of Tien, his brother, because his brother was a burgeoning Lightweaver, and Lightweavers, you'll notice, when they're around someone, that person starts to act a little bit more like a little bit of their best self. There's a bit of, also, counteraction to feelings of darkness and despair, it's just a natural Lightweaver sort of thing. And so, part of what Kaladin was drawing from Shallan was that feeling. I think it could've totally become love. And he's now cutting that off, he's saying it couldn't at all have become-- it could have. But that was part of what was drawing him in.

FanX Spring 2019 (April 19, 2019)

Quote

Questioner

Is the torture of Kaladin's love life just going to be an ongoing theme throughout the books? Is that what you're going to do?

Brandon Sanderson

Relationships are not really his thing, let's just say that.

FanX 2018 (Sept. 8, 2018)

Quote

Brandon Sanderson

For what it's worth, I also agree with the poster above. Kaladin just isn't ready for this kind of [romantic] relationship yet.

Okhummyeah

Oh "yet" that means i can still hope?

Brandon Sanderson

There is always room for hope. 

Rhythm of War Preview Q&As (July 28, 2020)

 

There are no WoBs I can find with the term Aromantic at all, but his Asexual questions have some WoBs:

Spoiler

Quote

RenegadeShroom

You said earlier that Parshendi are primarily asexual, does that extend to all Listeners -- parshmen, and those descended from Listeners, like Horneaters and Herdazians -- or is it just the Parshendi?

Brandon Sanderson

Most Listener forms are asexual, but several forms are different, including slaveform. Horneaters and Herdazians are not, as a rule, though there are higher instances of asexuality among them.

uchoo786

I was actually wondering about how Parshmen would reproduce if they are only in slaveform? I thought one had to be in mateform in order to reproduce?

Also, could Horneaters and Herdazians change forms as well?

Brandon Sanderson

For the first, mateform is not the only form capable of producing--any more than warform is the only one capable of swinging a sword. The forms are specializations.

For the second, RAFO.

/r/books AMA 2015 (May 19, 2015)

Quote

ladyknightradiant

Have we seen all four of the genders for the Parshendi?

Brandon Sanderson

Yes. 

ladyknightradiant

So it's more than just malen and femalen?

Brandon Sanderson

Well, male and female. So, basically, in my original notes I was trying to decide if I should call them [something else?] but they-- eventually we ended up-- It's basically, they have a male neuter and female neuter, and then a male and a female. So yes, there are four genders. [...] And, if you can't tell, the malen and femalen are both asexual, completely.

Footnote: Of note, but irrelevant to this entry, is that the questioner, ladyknightradiant, is the one who put together the Where's My Chull? children's book for Brandon. You can find the full illustrations here.
Words of Radiance Chicago signing (March 22, 2014)

Quote

WisdomDoode

I think he is a bit hesitant to incorporate these stuff openly because he thinks that it might be perceived as tokenism. Do I have it right u/mistborn ?

Edit: If Mr. Sanderson decides to show up; the deleted comment was about you mentioning one of your characters was gay but he didn't get a chance to date anyone yet therefore it is not really out there.

Brandon Sanderson

It's partially that, certainly. But in the case of Bridge Four, it's more about the fact that the guys just haven't had time to start many relationships. It's only been a few months, in-world time, between thinking they were doomed to having respectable jobs. Give the fellows some time. Most of the guys, gay or straight, are looking. (Excluding the married ones and the asexual one.)

Wisconservationist

I hope I didn't offend, it was exaggeration for effect, nor do I think the lack of sexual depiction or even mention is done ham-fistedly, there's always a well formed, even subtle, reason WHY your characters don't tend to be particularly sexual, at least not the major POV characters, be it culture or circumstance, I've just noted that it's something of a theme, which I ascribed, perhaps erroneously, to "delicate mormon sensibilities".

Brandon Sanderson

I wasn't offended. I do tend to respond quickly to threads, however, so I know I can come across as terse sometimes. No worries.

By way of conversation, you might enjoy a story from when I was writing the second Mistborn novel. My editor called me one day, and said, "All right. I can't figure it out. Are Vin and Elend having sex or not?" I said, "Of course they are. They've been together for over a year at this point." His response was, "Well, why not say so?"

It was the first chance I had to vocalize something that I hadn't even really figured out myself--something that just felt like the right way to tell my stories. I explained that there were many readers, like my sister, who wanted to be able to pretend that the male lead and female lead in the story were going to do things the way she wanted them to, with a level of chastity that made no sense in the culture. There were other readers who would want to imagine wild Allomancer sex happening every night.

In this case (though it may not be every case in my books) I felt it was best not to intrude as the author, as what was going on in the bedroom wasn't plot relevant. In addition, there was a certain...privacy I wanted to afford them, because of Vin's difficulty with intimacy in the first place. I don't know if that makes any sense or not, but while Wayne's sexual exploits can be front-and-center, it felt specifically wrong to go into Vin and Elend.

That said, I'm totally a prude. The Daenerys chapters from A Game of Thrones, for example, were too much for me, and are a large part of why I didn't continue with the series despite thinking the first book was very well written.

You should go listen to the Writing Excuses episode we did where we interviewed an erotica writer on how to write sex scenes. Mary spent basically the entire episode poking fun at me. (Though I'd like the record to stand that I was NOT blushing as much as she implies on the recording.)

General Reddit 2017 (July 24, 2017)

Quote

Sapphire_Bombay

I asked you about [Jasnah] being with Taln in [Way of Kings] Prime and Wit in the published version, and why she had to be with an immortal entity.

Brandon Sanderson

I believe my answer was something to the frame of: "it is hard to find people who would be on equal footing with Jasnah."

Sapphire_Bombay

Is it important that she is with someone? For someone who is so against the idea of marriage, and who is asexual to boot, it feels like there must be very good reason for not leaving her single.

Brandon Sanderson

It is more about the idea of conflict and exploration. Remember these are completely separate books, and there's kind of a reason why I didn't have a relationship for Jasnah in the first couple Stormlight books, because no, she doesn't need to be in a relationship. That's not a core need for her character or her personality. But, at the same time, I always try to let relationships arise very organically and naturally in my books, and I don't try to put too much of a thumb on the scale for those. And in this case, it just felt right. It was the right thing to explore for her character. It was the right way to reveal and talk about how she sees the world, and who she is, and when I first thought about it I thought, "Wow, that's a really great and a really terrible match all at the same time," and that's what I'm looking for, in a lot of ways.

YouTube Spoiler Stream 5 (Dec. 2, 2022)

 

 

 Hope that helps.

Edited November 12, 2024 by Treamayne

[+Lewis Nethur He/Him]

There are...very serious and aggregious metaphysical problems with syl becoming a viable romantic interest for Kaladin, both for her and himself. You should think of them as colleagues with, at worst, minor unresolved sexual tension and, at best, a deep platonic love that transcends typical human coupling.

 

There is very literally no way to make their relationship work romantically and that isn't a joke or an insult...

[BenKenobi7333 He/Him/Mandalorian]

Ok thanks.

[Duxredux he/him]

Well... I'm a bit iffy whether or not to say this, but I think you may have overreacted a bit @Treamayne with your first response. I did not see any implication from the OP that Kaladin needed to be "fixed" or that a slap was intended for the Aro community. It's just another shipping question from a new member. For that matter, Brandon has said he hasn't taken a Kaladin romance off the table yet. The term "aromantic" does not appear in any WoB to date. 

Spoiler

Quote

Questioner

Will Kaladin ever find love?

Brandon Sanderson

He's asking that same question, as well.

Tor Instagram Livestream (Nov. 25, 2020)

Quote

cupcakeunicorns

As a lady who enjoys romances, is a Kaladin romance coming soon?

Brandon Sanderson

Three (kind of three and a half) failures so far. Maybe fourth time is a charm? Let's just say it's not off the table.

Skyward Pre-Release AMA (Oct. 25, 2018)

 

I'll also note that thus far, Kaladin himself has seemed to pursue relationships, though there has been a considerable pressure from Adolin, Shallan, Syl, and Hesina for Kaladin to get into a relationship, at least since Lyn. This isn't to say that a Kaldin romance is for sure in the future, rather Brandon has intentionally left his future relationship status open for debate.

Honestly, this is where in IRL if I had the right relationship where I would just ask the person if they were seeking a relationship and would welcome me or others introducing them to people I think they would click with. I have dear family members that would love to get married but have been single for decades where nothing worked out, and sometimes I think they've just given up on trying because it's painful. I also have dear family members that haven't ever seemed to want that kind of relationship and have been perfectly content to remain single, though they've never told me if they are Aro or not. I'm going to ask rather than assume when it comes to setting them up or not.

This is a divergent topic from whether or not a potential Kaladin romance should be with Syl. I honestly don't know Brandon's plans for representation - full Cosmere spoilers:

Spoiler

Considering we've got confirmed cross-species romances.

• Kandra and human, despite Humans being more closely related to a cow than a Kandra. Very obviously so, with Wax and Lessie, Wayne and MeLaan.
• Humans and Singers are sexually compatible with offspring that can reproduce, considering Herdazians and Horneaters have Singer heritage. 
• Siah Aimians have blue skin, shadows that point toward the sun like they would in Shadesmar, are functionally immortal, and can natively manipulate the substance of their bodies as we see with Axies the Collector taking notes by creating tattoos on his skin. At some point they reproduced with humans, giving the people of Natanatan their blue skin and the women of Babatharnam their distinctive blue veins. Honestly, that sounds a lot like a Honorspren that successfully transitioned to the PR. If it is, and for those that feel Sylladin is wrong, this is the Coppermind quote on the Siah Aimians:
  • Most cultures on Roshar remain aware of Siah Aimians through legends and limited interaction, but the reaction to them varies from curiosity and unease to outright disgust. Rysn believes that Aimians are bad luck, Kylrm believes they bring curses onto people, and Nlent believes they can remove their limbs and skin because they are evil in human form.
• Not a cross species romance, but Jewels uses Clod romantically, though I don't think this is explicitly stated in the books, nor is Jewels the best of people.
• The Returned apparently normally don't reproduce with other Returned or humans, yet there is a currently unknown mechanism for a Returned to have offspring. This is central to Warbreaker and the Idrian royal family.

 

Again, I'm not actually stating my opinion on likelihood or what I actually would prefer, but I think Brandon's already done weirder than Syladin.

[Returned he/him]

The basic answers have been well covered above: it is possible for them to be love interests, such a thing would not really require Syl to become more humanoid than she is, but she isn't a human (or human-esque being, like a Singer) and so there would be fundamental differences between such a relationship and one between people like Adolin and Shallan. Many people like the idea of a relationship between Kal and Syl, and as you have experienced (rather forcefully) there are many that absolutely do not.

OP, I'm sorry you received responses that were... on the more aggressive side of things to such an innocent question, one which only asks about whether or not the idea is possible and does not advocate for it at all. I hope that you don't consider it to be a typical experience on the forum.

There isn't anything wrong with thinking the two characters might be a good match for one another in a romantic relationship, nor with wanting to see them together in that way. I, personally, do not like the idea of them being romantically entangled because I think that their relationship is already a good one and there isn't much in-text evidence (as I read things, at least) that there is any particular reason they might want that relationship to be different than it is. But while I, personally, would prefer that their plot lines not develop in that direction I am not affronted by the idea that someone else might have a different preference.

[Treamayne]

1 hour ago, Duxredux said:

Well... I'm a bit iffy whether or not to say this, but I think you may have overreacted a bit @Treamayne with your first response. I did not see any implication from the OP that Kaladin needed to be "fixed" or that a slap was intended for the Aro community. It's just another shipping question from a new member. For that matter, Brandon has said he hasn't taken a Kaladin romance off the table yet. 

I'm sorry @BenKenobi7333 if my post sounded accusatory, I did not intend it to be so. I can see (hindsight) what you mean @Duxredux that I may have been strong in my expressed opinion. 

That, in my opinion, does not invalidate that I feel it warrants discussion that while people do not use terms like "fix" or actually charged "verbal slap" terms - that the connotation received may not match the intended communication meant. But, they cannot identify those problems if nobody points them out. many of us have been told all of our lives that we are somehow "less" or "incomplete" due to the lack of a romantic relationship. 

Kaladin, by virtue of being a Main Character that does not have a stable relationship, is prone to an excessive amount of these fan theories. I felt the need to express my opinion, which should also be valid, and also provided the requested links to other threads where the OP's question had been discussed. 

I was trying to be both helpful, and representative of an alternative opinion; while also highlighting the potential for unintended hurt. That said, I had other devastating news today, and that also likely influenced my delivery and lack of tact. I'm sorry.

Quote

The term "aromantic" does not appear in any WoB to date. 

I believe I mentioned that

Edited November 12, 2024 by Treamayne
SPAG

[BenKenobi7333 He/Him/Mandalorian]

Nah it’s all good @Treamayne 

[RefusesToElaborate]

9 hours ago, who_slew_aicirtap said:

Is this canon? I've always thought of him that way, but I didn't think it had been explicitly confirmed.

Briefly, no.

Kaladin has had romantic interests in the past, in childhood he felt it for Laral, as a slave with an as-of-yet unseen woman named Tarah, and with Windrunner Lyn in the time skip between Oathbringer and Rhythm of War.

Now these relationships fell apart for various reasons, with Laral it was circumstance, with Tarah I fear it was him spiralling after Tiens death and with Lyn I certainly hope it was because they both realised it was rusting unprofessional for a leader to date a subordinate. Though we know it was Lyn who broke it off.

I don't understand why people think of Kaladin as aromantic, we do know he is dense when it comes to female attention, but so am I. I am most assuredly not aromantic. He does prioritise his work over his love life, but again that's not being aromantic that's having a different set of priorities.

His relationships fall apart not because he doesn't want them, but as someone who has struggled with depression can tell you, and my soon to be wife can attest, it makes you difficult to be around until you can find a mechanism to deal with it thst doesn't suck someone else down with you.

Now that we're leading into a new Kaladin who has found a way to cope, that may be different. To think he's aromantic... it's not bad. Different people read different things in a character, however it does ignore his behaviours and backstory.