Stormlight Reread Details

[Treamayne]

As many of us reread the series in preparation for SA5, I thought I would start this thread to catalogue details noticed that fit at least one category:

• May be new (or at least don't have a thread of their own or are not discussed)
• Are not neccessarily strong enough to warrant a separate thread
• Imply fundamental Realmatic Principals

That said, my first entry here is a small detail I noticed in WoK Ch 36:

Spoiler

 She calmly reached her hand out—fingers splayed—and pressed it against his chest as he swung a knife. Shallan’s breath caught in her throat.

Jasnah’s hand sank into the man’s skin, and he froze. A second later he burned.

No, he became fire. Transformed into flames in an eyeblink. 

Somehow, on previous readings I had failed to notice that Jasnah's hand sank into the flesh, much like Ashravan's Stamp (well, all stamps - but I'm correlating changes to sapiant beings in this example) TES Day 98:

Spoiler

Shai hesitated, then pressed the stamp down. It hit flesh, and stayed frozen for a moment, as stamps always did. The skin and muscle didn’t give way until a second later, when the stamp sank a fraction of an inch.

She twisted the stamp, locking it in, and pulled it back. The bright red seal glowed faintly.

Ashravan blinked.

So, it seems that either the "sinking" is required to touch the Spiritweb - or - it's a side effect when this process is done through touch (or possibly a forced change rather than a coerced change). 

What other details have you noticed on recent rereads that you do not often see discussed?

[Rorzikel]

An interesting cross-book behavior: barbs/spikes/spider-legs ripping through a humanoid figure's skin when they are enraged or feeling destructive.

 

Rhythm of War Chapter 77:

Spoiler

Ulim blurred, carapace-like barbs breaking his skin and jabbing out, then retracting. It seemed to happen to the beat of one of the new rhythms, perhaps Fury.

...

She almost demanded answers, but the way those spikes broke Ulim's skin-the way he pulsed-made her remain quiet. He was a force of nature come alive. And the particular force he exhibited now was destructive. Eventually his pulsing subsided. The spikes settled beneath his skin. He remained standing on the table, staring at the sheet of paper with the offending words. 

Secret History Part 4

Spoiler

The figure wore robes and had bright, flame-red hair. He bore a welcoming smile, but Kelsier could see spines beneath the surface of his skin. Pricking spider legs, thousands of them, pushing against the skin and causing it to pucker outward in erratic motions. Ruin's puppet. 

Spoiler

Kelsier looked at that hand, which undulated with the pinprick pressing of the spiders inside.

Secret History Part 6

Spoiler

Ruin screamed in denial, his figure fuzzing, spider-leg knives spearing out of the broken shape he wore. Destruction sprouted from the figure and became black mist.

[Sophrosyne he/him]

7 hours ago, Treamayne said:

So, it seems that either the "sinking" is required to touch the Spiritweb - or - it's a side effect when this process is done through touch (or possibly a forced change rather than a coerced change).

Makes sense considering that Shard blades have to 'cut the core of a limb' to kill it.

I'm just in WoK but I'm loving how clear it is that Elhokar was a light weaver candidate.

[Treamayne]

Early indications of inclination, that possibly drew their Spren:

Kaladin:

Spoiler

Ch 10: 

Quote

“And what of those who protect and defend? The ones who save lives by taking lives?”

Kaladin first expresses the "Watchers at the Rim" idea, also expressed by a Windrunner in one of Dalinar's Visions (Ch 19)

Quote

Dalinar found himself nodding.

“Every pasture needs three things,” the woman said, voice changing, as if she were quoting from memory. “Flocks to grow, herdsmen to tend, and watchers at the rim. We of Alethela are those watchers—the warriors who protect and fight. We maintain the terrible arts of killing, then pass them on to others when the Desolation comes.”

And we see that by the time Cenn joins his squad in Amaram's army, Syl has started to follow him (possibly drawn by this ideal he's contemplated for years - Ch 47):

Quote

Kaladin pulled a pouch of spheres from his belt, meaning to toss it to Ven. The pouch stuck, however, refusing to come free of the belt. Kaladin cursed, stumbling, tugging at the pouch. It came free suddenly, causing him to lose his balance again. A translucent white form zipped away, spinning with a carefree air.

“Storming windspren,” he said. 

 

Renarin:

Spoiler

CH 52:

Quote

“Well,” Renarin said, “what if we proved whether or not the visions were true?”

In this scene we see that Renarin is still having his "fits" but he utters, for the first time I noticed, a core tenent of the Truthwatchers - proving (and sharing) the truth.

I'll be looking for clues that Glys has started following Renarin around for the rest of the reread (well, until he's obviously been bonded - which is indicated when Renarin stops wearing his glasses). 

 

[Earless Jaks he/him]

Don't know if everyone knows about this, but there's this little tidbit in WoK where Syl explains to Kal that nature(including spren) is Harmony, and humans are Discord.

This calls back to that one Terris prophecy on Scadrial that says that Harmony will eventually shift into discord. Somehow Syl seems to have intrinsic knowledge about this, perhaps from her life with her previous Radiant, or maybe even earlier when Honor was alive. Just thought this was super interesting

Edited November 5, 2024 by Earless Jaks

[Treamayne]

36 minutes ago, Earless Jaks said:

Don't know if everyone knows about this, but there's this little tidbit in WoK where Syl explains to Kal that nature(including spren) is Harmony, and humans are Discord.

This calls back to that one Terris project on Scadrial that says that Harmony will eventually shift into discord. Somehow Syl seems to have intrinsic knowledge about this, perhaps from her life with her previous Radiant, or maybe even earlier when Honor was alive. Just thought this was super interesting

Great Observation

Here is the quote: WoK Ch 17:

Spoiler

“People are discord,” Syl said.

“What does that mean?”

“You all act differently and think differently. Nothing else is like that—animals act alike, and all spren are, in a sense, virtually the same individual. There’s harmony in that. But not in you—it seems that no two of you can agree on anything. All the world does as it is supposed to, except for humans. Maybe that’s why you so often want to kill each other.”

Discussed a few times on forum such as Here and most recently Here. Likely just a nod to Scadrial, as Mistborn Era 2 happens years after the events of WoK (in between SA 5 and 6 to be more precise) - so I doubt it is any inherent knowledge for Syl - Though SR shenanigans and Connection cause some interesting effects (like the scenes in WoR where Shallan draws Yalb and Shalash (sitting in the lait, before arriving to the Plains), or Syl turning into a version of Shallan before they ever met).

Edited November 5, 2024 by Treamayne
SPAG

[Earless Jaks he/him]

20 hours ago, Treamayne said:

Great Observation

Here is the quote: WoK Ch 17:

  Reveal hidden contents

“People are discord,” Syl said.

“What does that mean?”

“You all act differently and think differently. Nothing else is like that—animals act alike, and all spren are, in a sense, virtually the same individual. There’s harmony in that. But not in you—it seems that no two of you can agree on anything. All the world does as it is supposed to, except for humans. Maybe that’s why you so often want to kill each other.”

 

Thanks! I have two questions. I own copies of most of the Cosmere, but I don't yet have the main Stormlight Archives series(WoK, WoR, OB, and, RoW). Without the books on hand, how do people get quotes from the books? Is there a website or some other resource I'm missing, or do people just own the books?

 

20 hours ago, Treamayne said:

 

  Reveal hidden contents

“People are discord,” Syl said.

“What does that mean?”

“You all act differently and think differently. Nothing else is like that—animals act alike, and all spren are, in a sense, virtually the same individual. There’s harmony in that. But not in you—it seems that no two of you can agree on anything. All the world does as it is supposed to, except for humans. Maybe that’s why you so often want to kill each other.”

Syl turning into a version of Shallan before they ever met).

Secondly, in what part of the books does this happen? I've missed this in my rereads so far, and it sounds super cool!

 

Sorry, I'm pretty new to the shard, and I'm not sure how to delete a quote/hidden item when responding.

Edited November 5, 2024 by Earless Jaks

[Treamayne]

On 11/5/2024 at 5:37 PM, Earless Jaks said:

Thanks! I have two questions. I own copies of most of the Cosmere, but I don't yet have the main Stormlight Archives series(WoK, WoR, OB, and, RoW). Without the books on hand, how do people get quotes from the books? Is there a website or some other resource I'm missing, or do people just own the books?

I cannot speak for others, but I use Calibre (GNU GPL Freeware - donation optional) to organize my eBook library on my computer - and it makes looking up quotes and references very easy (especially with RegEx searches).  For example:

Spoiler

 

On 11/5/2024 at 5:37 PM, Earless Jaks said:

Secondly, in what part of the books does this happen? I've missed this in my rereads so far, and it sounds super cool!

It's subtle, but it is meant to be - because Foreshadowing.

WoB and Reference:

Spoiler

WoR Ch 9:

Quote

The pool in front of him glowed a deep violet. He’d noticed it earlier, but in the light of his sphere it had been harder to see. Now, in the dimness, the pool could reveal its eerie radiance.

Syl landed on the side of the pool, looking like a woman standing on an ocean’s shore. Kaladin frowned, leaning down to inspect her more closely. She seemed . . . different. Had her face changed shape?

“There are others like you,” Syl whispered. “I do not know them, but I know that other spren are trying, in their own way, to reclaim what was lost.”

She looked to him, and her face now had its familiar form. The fleeting change had been so subtle, Kaladin wasn’t sure if he’d imagined it.

While Shallan (Ch 11):

Quote

Despite her mounting anxiety, Shallan knelt down and traced a glyphward into the sand in prayer. She didn’t have a means of burning it. For now, she had to assume the Almighty would accept this. She bowed her head and sat reverently for ten heartbeats.

Then she stood and, hope against hope, began to search for other survivors. This stretch of coast was pocketed with numerous beaches and inlets. She put off seeking shelter, instead walking for a long time down the shoreline. The beach was composed of sand that was coarser than she’d expected. 

Quote

Questioner

Why is Kaladin so proficient-- Like naturally born to wield a spear. Is that a weapon he likes or is it a destiny for him?

Brandon Sanderson

So destiny is a strong term... I would say he has natural aptitude, but no more so than a normal person who has a natural aptitude for something. But the way the Spiritual Realm works in the cosmere and the way Connection works, there were certain things that were happening to Kaladin before they happened...

It's like Syl says in one of the books. "You didn't know me then, but I knew you then. Even though we hadn't met yet, I still knew you." You see some weird Connection things too. And these are mostly just for fun sort of cosmere connections. Like when you see Syl take on the look of Shallan standing on the beach. There's gonna be a connection there. It's forming, it doesn't exist yet, but all things are one in the Spiritual Realm, and we're just kinda seeing echoes of that. It's not meant to be destiny, it's more meant to be, "Hey there's little connections happening".

I would not say Kaladin is any more naturally gifted in that than your average professional sports player is naturally gifted in what they do.

Emerald City Comic Con 2018 (March 1, 2018)

 

On 11/5/2024 at 5:37 PM, Earless Jaks said:

Sorry, I'm pretty new to the shard, and I'm not sure how to delete a quote/hidden item when responding.

Please see the Sharder FAQ (also linked in my Signature) for that info and many more tips and tricks for the Forum, Coppermind and Arcanum.

Edited November 7, 2024 by Treamayne
References

[Sythrin]

On 10/31/2024 at 8:11 PM, Treamayne said:

So, it seems that either the "sinking" is required to touch the Spiritweb - or - it's a side effect when this process is done through touch (or possibly a forced change rather than a coerced change).

Perhaps it is a side effect of perception?

We beliefe the soul is inside our bodies and therefor we have to sink in our hand, to grab it.

[Mattel]

On 10/31/2024 at 1:11 PM, Treamayne said:

So, it seems that either the "sinking" is required to touch the Spiritweb - or - it's a side effect when this process is done through touch (or possibly a forced change rather than a coerced change). 

Perhaps Jasnah needed to become part of the thief, merge herself to make it easier to change soulcast a living being. 

Spoiler

In OB Jasnah has a very easy time controlling souls during the final battle at the end of the book, so maybe if she couldn't bring the souls closer to the physical realm from Shadesmar, maybe merging herself with them makes it easier. 

 

[Treamayne]

Oathbringer Ch 120 brought another interesting Connection:

Spoiler

Below, Dalinar was a mere shadow against the shifting crimson cloud. Faces emerged within, screaming with rage, fury, bloodlust—like the billowing front of a thunderhead.

Being near the mist made Kaladin feel nauseous. Fortunately, the enemy didn’t seem eager to enter it either. They hovered outside, watching Dalinar.

That sounds very similar to Vasher's Nightblood test:

Spoiler

Warbreaker Ch 21: 

Quote

Breathing hard, Vasher grabbed Nightblood, closed the sheath, and did up the clasp. Then he reached over, touching the rope that tied the dazed servant. “Your Breath to mine,” he said, recovering the Breath from the rope, leaving the man bound.

You didn’t let me kill him, Nightblood said, annoyed.

No, Vasher said. Corpses, remember?

And…two ran away from me. That’s not right.

You cannot tempt the hearts of men who are pure, Nightblood. No matter how much he explained that concept, it seemed beyond the sword’s ability to comprehend.

Annotations to Ch 35:

Quote

Before that we have the first real interaction between Vivenna and Vasher. He gives her what he likes to think of as the Nightblood test. One nice thing about having a sword that “cannot tempt the hearts of those who are pure” is that when someone like Vivenna touches it, she gets sick. I didn’t want Nightblood to come off as a “one ring” knockoff. He doesn’t turn people’s hearts or corrupt them. However, in order to be able to do his job and fulfill his Command, he needed the ability to determine who is good and who is evil.

This, of course, isn’t an easy thing to determine. In fact, I don’t think it’s a black or white issue for most people. When Nightblood was created, the Breaths infused in him did their best to interpret their Command. What they decided was evil was someone who would try to take the sword and use it for evil purposes, selling it, manipulating and extorting others, that sort of thing. Someone who wouldn’t want the sword for those reasons was determined to be good. If they touch the weapon, they feel sick. If others touch the weapon, their desire to kill and destroy with it is enhanced greatly.

 

So, if Nightblood (and Ashertmarn, Nergoaul and other Unmade) really work off of a version of Rioting emotions (influencing people through lapping against the cognitive identity - per WoB) I wonder if the nausea is due to Rioting emotions that are not present (with too much power) - or just rioting the emotions that seem to be influenced by both Nightblood and Nergaoul (desire to attack, kill, compete). 

WoB:

Spoiler

Quote

Editied for length and Relevance

Phantine

Does that 'inside a body' thing work on most magics?

For instance, if Han stuck Luke into a Mistborn Tauntaun (a distant and unlucky relative of the mistborn llama), would Luke be protected from both the cold and emotional allomancy?

Brandon Sanderson

He'd have to get him inside a living one.

It does work on most magics, though the interactions can be odd unless you know a lot about the workings. Emotional Allomancy, for example, works by lapping against the outsides of someone's cognitive self, influencing you the way music might stir your soul. So being inside a living body wouldn't necessarily stop it--you'd just have more interference. Kind of like how you can still hear music outside if it's loud enough.

Actual mind control in the cosmere requires you to get INSIDE the soul, which you've seen happen frequently enough. There has to be a gap or an opening.

Or, conversely, you just have to be so powerful that you can push through the interference.

/r/books AMA 2015 (July 14, 2015)

 

 

[Trusk'our he/him]

21 hours ago, Treamayne said:

Oathbringer Ch 120 brought another interesting Connection:

That sounds very similar to Vasher's Nightblood test:

So, if Nightblood (and Ashertmarn, Nergoaul and other Unmade) really work off of a version of Rioting emotions (influencing people through lapping against the cognitive identity - per WoB) I wonder if the nausea is due to Rioting emotions that are not present (with too much power) - or just rioting the emotions that seem to be influenced by both Nightblood and Nergaoul (desire to attack, kill, compete). 

Ah, good catch. This would also fit with the idea that overly strong uses of Emotional Allomancy (or ones that go against the target's nature) can cause the body to fight back, rejecting the desired effects.

Spoiler

https://wob.coppermind.net/events/189/#e9004

WinespringBrother

Do soothing and rioting work on a telepathic or physiological level (or both)?

Brandon Sanderson

Primarily telepathic, though the body does respond physiologically. After the Soother is gone, the emotion remains for a time, so long as it was a natural emotion. Strong soothing/riotings against a person's nature can wear off quickly, and the body react (sometimes) with a strong opposite emotion in response. A very good Soother/Rioter can inspire emotions that begin telepathic only, but then have a response in the body, so the emotion gets more cemented.

It could also be compared to Marsh Soothing Marasi too strongly in AoL, leaving her feeling sick afterward. 

Spoiler

AoL, page 322: "I apologize for bringing you like this," Ironeyes said. He had a quiet, gravelly voice.

"Like this?" she said, her voice coming out as almost a squeak.

"With emotional Allomancy. I sometimes Pull too hard. I've never been as good at this sort of thing as Breeze was. Be calm, child. I will not hurt you."

She felt an instant calmness, though that felt terribly unnatural, and left her feeling even worse. Calm, but sick. One should not be calm when speaking with Death himself.

 

Edited January 9, 2025 by Trusk'our