Chapters 25 and 26

[the_archduke]

Mraize mentions a new recruit.  Someone who could have prompted Dalinar to go to the Spiritual Realm, though it turned out to be unnecessary.  Sja Anat cannot be that person, as Dalinar would not have listened to her.  So who is the new recruit?

[Elder]

1 minute ago, the_archduke said:

Mraize mentions a new recruit.  Someone who could have prompted Dalinar to go to the Spiritual Realm, though it turned out to be unnecessary.  Sja Anat cannot be that person, as Dalinar would not have listened to her.  So who is the new recruit?

Perhaps an extension of Sja- Anat.  One of her Children.  Or perhaps the mild mannered Princeling bonded to her child.

[teknopathetic he/him]

2 minutes ago, the_archduke said:

Mraize mentions a new recruit.  Someone who could have prompted Dalinar to go to the Spiritual Realm, though it turned out to be unnecessary.  Sja Anat cannot be that person, as Dalinar would not have listened to her.  So who is the new recruit?

I’m very suspicious of Dalinar’s guard who no longer is trying to bond a spren. Why did that stop? Did he get an enlightened spren? 

[Ninth of the Night]

16 minutes ago, StanLemon said:

Lift is an entirely valid suspect.

Maybe as a spy for Cultivation. Not the Ghostbloods.

17 minutes ago, StanLemon said:

She was alone with Mraize for an unknown amount of time during the occupation of Urithiru

Being maliciously hunted by him, and subsequently being imprisoned in a cage. Then delivered to Raboniel.

19 minutes ago, StanLemon said:

But there isn't any reason to believe that it couldn't have been someone else either and they just charged Sja-anat to monitor him after being contacted.

I won't deny the possibility of them having another spy, as they seem to be everywhere. But I spent several posts in the last topic trying to convince people that the Ghostbloods aren't an infallible group. And these latest chapters just proved it.

Lift is not a Ghostblood. I will eat my hat if she is.

[Wanguu He/Him]

Yeah I agree, I don't see why Lift would work with them. They're probably too boring and slow for her.

7 minutes ago, Ninth of the Night said:

Lift is not a Ghostblood. I will eat my hat if she is.

Be careful, Lift might eat it before you can!

[coolsnow7]

2 hours ago, The Stick said:

The Hoid quote about one many giving up the power sounds like Kelsier to me. And him calling Kelsier selfless is hilarious to me.

It’s Vin at the Well of Ascension

 

2 hours ago, the_archduke said:

Sja Anat (who just mentioned she can see souls) just said that there will be room in the world for Shallan's children.  Is she pregnant?  Twins?

I’m pretty sure that shower sex scene was exactly this. As if we didn’t already have enough reasons to think Adolin was going to die…

[StanLemon]

6 minutes ago, Ninth of the Night said:

Maybe as a spy for Cultivation. Not the Ghostbloods.

Being maliciously hunted by him, and subsequently being imprisoned in a cage. Then delivered to Raboniel.

I won't deny the possibility of them having another spy, as they seem to be everywhere. But I spent several posts in the last topic trying to convince people that the Ghostbloods aren't an infallible group. And these latest chapters just proved it.

Lift is not a Ghostblood. I will eat my hat if she is.

Is it likely she's a spy? No.

Is it entirely possible she's a spy and Mraize manipulated her? Very much yes.

Look, I wholeheartedly agree the Ghostbloods aren't infallible. That's been clear to me since TLM. But at the same time, there has been enough circumstantial evidence that I won't be at all surprised if she is

[duladen he/him]

14 minutes ago, Ninth of the Night said:

Maybe as a spy for Cultivation. Not the Ghostbloods.

Being maliciously hunted by him, and subsequently being imprisoned in a cage. Then delivered to Raboniel.

I won't deny the possibility of them having another spy, as they seem to be everywhere. But I spent several posts in the last topic trying to convince people that the Ghostbloods aren't an infallible group. And these latest chapters just proved it.

Lift is not a Ghostblood. I will eat my hat if she is.

Agreed Lift does not make sense. But I don't think the answer is just Sja Anat's children. Mraize says "We thought we might need our newest recruit to nudge him into it, but that wasn’t necessary." I think that implies a human recruit. I suspect The Mink, Yanagawn, or that guard that's no longer looking for a spren.

[Ninth of the Night]

5 minutes ago, coolsnow7 said:

As if we didn’t already have enough reasons to think Adolin was going to die…

I reject the possibility of Adolin dying. Missing out on him being a father would be a low blow and I can't believe Brando would be that mean. All of the "death flags" are just red herrings... Although I will not bet on the consumption of my hat for this one.

5 minutes ago, StanLemon said:

Is it entirely possible she's a spy and Mraize manipulated her? Very much yes.

MAYBE he could find a way to control her, threatening life that she cares about, but that would be a very unfulfilling "twist".

And if Lift was working with them, what could she possibly hope to gain? She simply doesn't have the type of personality that would seek to join such a group. And she's not unintelligent to be manipulated without extreme measures.

11 minutes ago, Wanguu said:

Be careful, Lift might eat it before you can!

I'm not certain that would supply her with Lifelight

[Shacharma]

"Honor is a coward who always hated us" - yet anther confirmation that Honor is actually still alive?

[duladen he/him]

All the discussion of giving up the power, makes me think one or more of these will be true
1. Honor gave up the power; perhaps feigning his madness and then stapling his cognitive shadow to the Stormfather to hide his escape. "Our shame" could be because this step was basically him breaking his oaths/agreements (to the Heralds, to Odium, to the people of Roshar)

2. If Dalinar picks up the power of Honor, he will give it up. Maybe to Kaladin, maybe to Taravangian in an attempt to give context to the divine hatred. I wonder also if that could be like a Shard-level version of Vasher giving all his Breaths to Denth and then taking advantage of that moment of vulnerability. I'm also thinking that since Dalinar and Navani are visiting the Spiritual Realm with their minds but not their bodies, he can avoid having his physical form vaporized as he Ascends. Then, when he's ready to give it up, his soul can be stapled back to his body. I assume he'd be like a Returned in this scenario. My god can you imagine how caked up he'll be?

3. Taravangian will be convinced to give up Odium (I think this least likely)

 

I really REALLY want to see some Radiant vs Allomancer fighting. I need it.

Agreed the pink crystal is roseite. No better guesses on the other things...

[The Stick]

I am firmly in support of Wyndle being the spy through Lift. All this talk of Sja-Anat being the spy simply cannot work the way it is proposed. The discussions of the SR happened in the Tower. I would eat my hat if the Sibling was so inept that they could not see and Unmade entering the tower.

One Sja-Anat is off the list, there are every few people.

Mink:Yeah, he was really suspicious in that scene, especially with stealing and army and marching or Herdaz, he is an option.

Navani or Sibling: Just no. I don't think either would ever betray the secret.

Hoid: In TLM, he is firmly anti-Ghosblood. I don't think it is him.

Cultivation, Lift, and Wyndle: I think these three and the Mink are the most likely. We already know that Cultivation is trying her hand at playing 5d chess. Plus, every other person she has interacted with has had a spot in her plan. I would not be surprised if she pressured Wyndle into letting the cat out of the bag to the Ghostbloods.

[Corgen]

1 hour ago, the_archduke said:

Mraize mentions a new recruit.  Someone who could have prompted Dalinar to go to the Spiritual Realm, though it turned out to be unnecessary.  Sja Anat cannot be that person, as Dalinar would not have listened to her.  So who is the new recruit?

The traitor is Stormfather. That would explain why he decided to tell Dalinar about Honor.

[Ninth of the Night]

3 minutes ago, The Stick said:

The discussions of the SR happened in the Tower. I would eat my hat if the Sibling was so inept that they could not see and Unmade entering the tower.

From the recent chapter:

Spoiler

“Why are you here?” Iyatil demanded. “You’re supposed to be watching the Bondsmiths. Have they begun the process?”

“My children watch,” Sja-anat said, her voice tinny and small, as if she were communicating down the length of a long hallway. “The Sibling is awake. They are not easy to fool, even for me. I myself would draw attention.”

 

[Confused]

Aggghh! Corgen just beat me! I also think the newly recruited spy is the Stormfather. He doesn't want Dalinar to Ascend to Honor. Maybe this is more grist for the "Tanavast is still alive" crowd. I just think Tanavast's CG rebels against the thought of losing their consciousness and Investiture - effectively dying for real.

This reminds me of the LeBron James commercial where he sits in a barbershop and reports he has an incredible NFL offer he might consider. Within seconds, the news reports the LeBron's comments, verbatim. Like there is a spy in LeBron's head.

Maybe the spy is inside Dalinar's head, the Stormfather. Maybe Mraize plans on killing Dalinar and taking Honor for himself?

And Navani leaving the Tower and its protections? Idiotic. Will the Tower be able to produce Towerlight without her nearby? Narratively, it seems like another Tower invasion would be redundant and boring. But something is going to happen there.

[The Stick]

Another thing I noticed about the person who gave up the power.

I would interpret what Hoid said to mean that Virtuosity has not splintered herself yet, because that would most definitely qualify.

[SirAlmanac]

I think that the Wit that has appeared in the last few chapters is an imposter. He seemed to be referencing Preservation when he was talking about Shards who’s vessel had died but he mentioned that “we didn’t realize it at the time” which I think is weird since I suspect Wit would know about the mists being preservation. In this chapter he mentioned witnessing a mortal give up a shards power, which seems to be referencing Vin at the Well. But the way it was worded was almost exactly like a line from secret history. “… She did the most selfless thing he had ever seen” which is when Kelsier watches her give it up and release Ruin.

This Wit also disappeared between the meeting of the monarchs and the meeting where Dalinar talks about Cultivation talking to him. He also threw a bowl and hit Lift which his Torment should prevent and I don’t think not seeing her would get around his Torment, because then he could just get around it by closing his eyes. He also sat backwards in a chair just like Kelsier.

In the prologue we see Galivar remark that Thaidakar was doing something that looked like light weaving and in an earlier chapter with Shallan we learn that light weaving can be substantiated to interact with the physical world like real objects. We also see this in Yumi with Design having a light weaved physical form. I propose that this fake Wit is actually Kelsier using a substantiated light weaving to push Dalinar into going to the Spiritual Realm, maybe to find BAM or for some other reason that we don’t know of yet. We will have to see what happens when Dalinar is sent into “Wit’s Memory”.

[Ninth of the Night]

8 minutes ago, SirAlmanac said:

I think that the Wit that has appeared in the last few chapters is an imposter. He seemed to be referencing Preservation when he was talking about Shards who’s vessel had died but he mentioned that “we didn’t realize it at the time” which I think is weird since I suspect Wit would know about the mists being preservation.

It perplexes me why some people think this. Hoid is not all knowing, he has to learn information just like anyone else. Nobody knew the mists were Preservation. The death of a Shard was not well documented at the time, nor is it normal for a Vessel to infuse themself into an aspect of nature such as mists. Which were pre-existing on Scadrial.

[Display-Names-Are-Stupid]

1 hour ago, Shacharma said:

"Honor is a coward who always hated us" - yet anther confirmation that Honor is actually still alive?

Tanavast is confirmed dead, but Honor is confirmed to still be around as a vacant Shard. 

Maybe further evidence that Tanavast and Honor were at odds towards the end? 

[Darvys]

Interesting tidbit about Honor's cowardice, add that to the bravery theme that seems to slowly be coalescing since RoW : in Adin's pov, Taravangian's ascension, around windrunners and Kaladin, could also add Jezrien's curse I guess, paragon of the windrunners reduced to a drooling drunk who can't face his failure like a certain Shard aspirant used to be.

Dunno where this is all going, but I doubt it's all coincidental. That capital B will come into play at some point, but probably not in this book if I had to guess.

 

[CognitiveShadow he/him]

3 hours ago, teknopathetic said:

Mraize actually working against the Ghostbloods in the end would be an amazing twist. 

It does seem like his relationship with Iyatil is a little like a sith and their apprentice - like he could be constantly trying to trick and murder her to prove himself or something and I feel like that would actually fit lol

2 hours ago, coolsnow7 said:

I’m pretty sure that shower sex scene was exactly this. As if we didn’t already have enough reasons to think Adolin was going to die…

I hope this isn't the case - I'd much prefer a world where someone can mention another character's future kids/family/posterity and their safety without it instantly meaning that they are pregnant or about to have kids right away. Especially because she said kids plural - to me that reads as a generic phrase used by a spren trying to plead with Shallan to help her create a world where her children and Shallan's posterity can be safe and allowed to exist. I didn't feel like there was any other hint involved that would point towards Shallan having a kid. Plus, she can't keep her own history straight and her husband still might turn out to be Odium's champion, so I really hope for her sake that she isn't pregnant with twins.

To me this theory is reading too much into it.

[coolsnow7]

55 minutes ago, CognitiveShadow said:

I'd much prefer a world where someone can mention another character's future kids/family/posterity and their safety without it instantly meaning that they are pregnant or about to have kids right away.

I get what you’re saying and I would completely agree if it weren’t specifically Sja Anat, a being that could actually know whether Shallan is pregnant before she does, and furthermore is not the sort of being that would speak that way - she didn’t say “your future children” or “your people’s children”, and we know she would if that’s what she met.

[CognitiveShadow he/him]

31 minutes ago, coolsnow7 said:

I get what you’re saying and I would completely agree if it weren’t specifically Sja Anat, a being that could actually know whether Shallan is pregnant before she does, and furthermore is not the sort of being that would speak that way - she didn’t say “your future children” or “your people’s children”, and we know she would if that’s what she met.

But she was talking specifically about her children in that situation. That was her clear priority, and her mentioning Shallan’s children in that context makes sense cause it’s an attempt to find common ground. If Shallan had reacted a certain way to it or if it was said in a different way or something I could see it being an allusion to her being pregnant, but the context leads me to believe Sja anat would say that or something similar regardless of whether Shallan was currently pregnant or not. So unless there’s other evidence I’ll take this one with a major grain of salt. If she is pregnant and Brandon is foreshadowing that a bit, then we’ll see multiple seemingly meaningless statements threaded into conversation. But this one alone doesn’t mean anything by itself in my mind.

[bmcclure7]

4 hours ago, StanLemon said:

Is it likely she's a spy? No.

Is it entirely possible she's a spy and Mraize manipulated her? Very much yes.

Look, I wholeheartedly agree the Ghostbloods aren't infallible. That's been clear to me since TLM. But at the same time, there has been enough circumstantial evidence that I won't be at all surprised if she is

You can’t be serious. Think about what you’re saying. We have been in lifts pov we know she is not the spy. And how would they recruit her? What could they possibly say to convince her? They could get is offer her food and I’m pretty sure she would just steal that and runoff.

 

Circumstantial evidence? What circumstantial evidence? you have nothing. 
 

2 hours ago, CognitiveShadow said:

It does seem like his relationship with Iyatil is a little like a sith and their apprentice - like he could be constantly trying to trick and murder her to prove himself or something and I feel like that would actually fit lol

I hope this isn't the case - I'd much prefer a world where someone can mention another character's future kids/family/posterity and their safety without it instantly meaning that they are pregnant or about to have kids right away. Especially because she said kids plural - to me that reads as a generic phrase used by a spren trying to plead with Shallan to help her create a world where her children and Shallan's posterity can be safe and allowed to exist. I didn't feel like there was any other hint involved that would point towards Shallan having a kid. Plus, she can't keep her own history straight and her husband still might turn out to be Odium's champion, so I really hope for her sake that she isn't pregnant with twins.

To me this theory is reading too much into it.

Regardless of whether she should or shouldn’t she’s having sex and to my knowledge there’s no birth control on roshar so kids for her is an availability if not now, then later, assuming her husband lives to see her again.  
 

I don’t know why you possibly think children= her personal prosperity. I mean, I get that she may not actually be pregnant now. But how does children become a metaphor for personal prosperity?

 

49 minutes ago, CognitiveShadow said:

But she was talking specifically about her children in that situation. That was her clear priority, and her mentioning Shallan’s children in that context makes sense cause it’s an attempt to find common ground. If Shallan had reacted a certain way to it or if it was said in a different way or something I could see it being an allusion to her being pregnant, but the context leads me to believe Sja anat would say that or something similar regardless of whether Shallan was currently pregnant or not. So unless there’s other evidence I’ll take this one with a major grain of salt. If she is pregnant and Brandon is foreshadowing that a bit, then we’ll see multiple seemingly meaningless statements threaded into conversation. But this one alone doesn’t mean anything by itself in my mind.

 

I agree that this could just be something like that. It doesn’t mean she’s literally pregnant however it does open up the possibility for it. Especially with all the talk of infants earlier. we will have to keep a close eye to See if there’s any more foreshadowing

[Wyndle88 he/him]

"I continued on my way, contemplating dust and the nature of desertion."

 

Should it have been 'Dust'?...we know Hoid was off planet at a critical juncture in Rosharan past. Would Nohadon/Honor consider this as desertion?