Sythrin Posted October 18, 2024 Posted October 18, 2024 If you give a mistwraith a gemheart of a parshendi. Could the fused inhabit their bodies? And one over idea. If the fused can use regrowth and we give them the skeleton of Dahkdor user. Will they access to the enchanced bone structure of the dahkdor?
JustQuestin2004 he/him Posted October 18, 2024 Posted October 18, 2024 57 minutes ago, Sythrin said: If you give a mistwraith a gemheart of a parshendi. Could the fused inhabit their bodies? I'd say no, if only because it seems the Singers need to Intentionally give their bodies up to a Fused. The Mistwraiths are barely sentient, more animals than human, so it would be unlikely they'd have enough Intent to do so. A Kandra might be able to, but then we run into the issue of whether a Fused can even take over a non-singer body. So I'd say no to Mistwraiths cause they're too dumb, maybe to Kandra but that runs into other issues. 59 minutes ago, Sythrin said: And one over idea. If the fused can use regrowth and we give them the skeleton of Dahkdor user. Will they access to the enchanced bone structure of the dahkdor? Not that simple, we have a WOB that states that if a Kandra ate a Dahkor Monk, they wouldn't get powers. Selish Arts require Connection to a land to make work, and Dahkor is no different. 1
Sythrin Posted October 18, 2024 Author Posted October 18, 2024 6 minutes ago, JustQuestin2004 said: I'd say no, if only because it seems the Singers need to Intentionally give their bodies up to a Fused. The Mistwraiths are barely sentient, more animals than human, so it would be unlikely they'd have enough Intent to do so. A Kandra might be able to, but then we run into the issue of whether a Fused can even take over a non-singer body. So I'd say no to Mistwraiths cause they're too dumb, maybe to Kandra but that runs into other issues. Are you sure that the Singers have to give up intentional? I remember Raboniel threaten Kaladin that she will take over a mothers body to scar the child for life if he killed her. Sure could be an empty threat and we know she lies too. But still, feels like you only have to be outsite when an Everstorm comes. And with Mistwraits. Well would that be not similar to Kaladin? They do have the ability to imitate any sentient creature they devoured. So why not a Singer?
JustQuestin2004 he/him Posted October 18, 2024 Posted October 18, 2024 17 minutes ago, Sythrin said: Are you sure that the Singers have to give up intentional? I remember Raboniel threaten Kaladin that she will take over a mothers body to scar the child for life if he killed her. Sure could be an empty threat and we know she lies too. But still, feels like you only have to be outsite when an Everstorm comes. There was a Venli interlude during Oathbringer that showed the process, 'giving up the body' with Intent was necessary. A Singer must be willing to accept the Fused. It's shown in Oathbringer Interlude I-6. As for Raboniel, I personally think it was probably a bluff, I doubt many mothers with a child would willingly give up her life so easily, but she knew that Kal was a Windrunner and couldn't take the chance that she wasn't bluffing. 22 minutes ago, Sythrin said: And with Mistwraits. Well would that be not similar to Kaladin? They do have the ability to imitate any sentient creature they devoured. So why not a Singer? I have not the slightest clue what you mean by 'Similar to Kaladin', he has nothing in common with a Mistwraith. The main issue would be whether or not Mistwraiths even have the mental capacity to have the Intent to allow a Fused to take them over. There's a WOB about if Aviar can Worldhop on their own, the issue is that they'd need Intent to go through a Perpendicularity, which since they're animals they may not have. If a Mistwraith, a barely sentient animal, can have enough complex thoughts of 'Let this weird spirit into my body', then yes they can be taken over. I wouldn't bet on it though. 1
Duxredux he/him Posted October 18, 2024 Posted October 18, 2024 First off, for this kind of possession stunt, the host doesn't need to be a shape-shifter to still gain the characteristics of the Cognitive Shadow. With Yumi and Painter, Yumi's incredibly strong Spiritual aspect molded Painter's body rather painfully into her image. Leshwi possessed a malen body and retained her generally feminine appearance but she still grew a wispy beard that required shaving, so presumably she is not as strong as Yumi. Beyond that, the Fused have basically no Connection to Mistwraiths, so a chull is a more likely possession candidate than a Mistwraith in my opinion. Intelligence or the lack thereof seems less important than valid Connection. If memory serves, the Listeners had been prepped to enter the Storm in the same manner as inviting a spren to change forms as a species with a symbiotic relationship to the spren of Roshar, so there may have been an implicit, even instinctual invitation. The Fused as the gods and ancestors to the Listeners and Singers also have greater Connection to their target hosts than anything foreign to Roshar. 1
Quantus he/him Posted October 18, 2024 Posted October 18, 2024 Just now, Duxredux said: First off, for this kind of possession stunt, the host doesn't need to be a shape-shifter to still gain the characteristics of the Cognitive Shadow. With Yumi and Painter, Yumi's incredibly strong Spiritual aspect molded Painter's body rather painfully into her image. Leshwi possessed a malen body and retained her generally feminine appearance but she still grew a wispy beard that required shaving, so presumably she is not as strong as Yumi. Beyond that, the Fused have basically no Connection to Mistwraiths, so a chull is a more likely possession candidate than a Mistwraith in my opinion. Intelligence or the lack thereof seems less important than valid Connection. If memory serves, the Listeners had been prepped to enter the Storm in the same manner as inviting a spren to change forms as a species with a symbiotic relationship to the spren of Roshar, so there may have been an implicit, even instinctual invitation. The Fused as the gods and ancestors to the Listeners and Singers also have greater Connection to their target hosts than anything foreign to Roshar. But the hypothetical Mistwraith in question would have digested and incorporated the Gemheart of an actual Singer, which certainly should retain that Connection. WOB says a gem-based Trueself for a Kandra could be used "like a gemheart" which could mean anything from Hearing Rhythms to facilitating a Spren Bond and taking a Form. So I dont think it's a big stretch for a Mistwraith to function along similar lines. I think the more critical question would be whether the Gemaheart can Replace Blessings as the realmic Bridge needed for the Mistwraith to regain sentience. If the gemheart does that it might birth a Kandra or it might create a whole new (non-hemalurgic) species. Quote Ok-Row1050 If a kandra with a crystal True Body made their way to Roshar, could they use their crystal bones like a gemheart? Brandon Sanderson Yes, they could. That is an excellent question. YouTube Spoiler Stream 4 (June 16, 2022) 1
JustQuestin2004 he/him Posted October 18, 2024 Posted October 18, 2024 13 minutes ago, Quantus said: I think the more critical question would be whether the Gemaheart can Replace Blessings as the realmic Bridge needed for the Mistwraith to regain sentience. If the gemheart does that it might birth a Kandra or it might create a whole new (non-hemalurgic) species. I think that might work, since we know some Rosharan species have become sentient, perhaps sapient, thanks to bonding to Spren. Ryshadium are smarter than an average horse thanks to their bonding a Spren, they choose their own riders, and they might not even have Gemhearts. Tai-Na and other island sized Greatshells are implied to be sentient enough to help people in need, such as the Tai-Na somehow saving Rysn from falling to death and the Santhid that Shallan drew a picture of helping her to shore after she Soulcasted the ship into water. Although Mistwraith's have been described as having some kind of 'Cognitive Blockage', which is the main cause of their state. Perhaps this might lead to them being unbondable by Spren? Or maybe not even being perceived by Spren?
Quantus he/him Posted October 18, 2024 Posted October 18, 2024 9 minutes ago, JustQuestin2004 said: I think that might work, since we know some Rosharan species have become sentient, perhaps sapient, thanks to bonding to Spren. Ryshadium are smarter than an average horse thanks to their bonding a Spren, they choose their own riders, and they might not even have Gemhearts. Tai-Na and other island sized Greatshells are implied to be sentient enough to help people in need, such as the Tai-Na somehow saving Rysn from falling to death and the Santhid that Shallan drew a picture of helping her to shore after she Soulcasted the ship into water. Although Mistwraith's have been described as having some kind of 'Cognitive Blockage', which is the main cause of their state. Perhaps this might lead to them being unbondable by Spren? Or maybe not even being perceived by Spren? My understanding is that they have a Realmic blockage and the Hemalurgic spike is able to bridge over it by virtue of being a transrealmic effect in it's own right, which among other things is why it's relatively versatile on what kind of spikes can accomplish it. The Gemheart is providing a similar realmic bridge to Singers to allow them to hear Rhythms, etc from the Spiritual realm, so it's at least diong something that's similar in some respects. 1
Trusk'our he/him Posted October 18, 2024 Posted October 18, 2024 (edited) 1 hour ago, Quantus said: But the hypothetical Mistwraith in question would have digested and incorporated the Gemheart of an actual Singer, which certainly should retain that Connection. WOB says a gem-based Trueself for a Kandra could be used "like a gemheart" which could mean anything from Hearing Rhythms to facilitating a Spren Bond and taking a Form. So I dont think it's a big stretch for a Mistwraith to function along similar lines. I do not believe feeding a Gemheart to a Mistwraith would provide a valid body for a Fused to possess: there is no spiritual transformation like with Singers, so they should be no more viable a vessel than a human. For example, a Kandra cannot bond Spren by virtue of ingesting a Greatshell, nor does having a set of bones give them a spiritual ideal. Spoiler https://wob.coppermind.net/events/181-stormlight-three-update-4/#e3794 NeedsAdjustment Would a kandra be able to imitate a chasmfiend, given enough time? Brandon Sanderson It's not about time, it's about mass. A little one, sure. A full grown one? They'd crush themselves. They'd need to be able to make use of symbiotic spren bonds from Roshar, which isn't just a matter of digesting a body. Spoiler https://wob.coppermind.net/events/498-youtube-spoiler-stream-4/#e15701 Questioner Hey Brandon, did TenSoon become more loyal to Vin because he was in a dog's body and started to adopt the loyalty of a dog? Brandon Sanderson Nope, I did not work that into it. There are certain things that the body, like getting scratches and things like that, he did start to adopt some of that sort of thing. I kind of explain this to myself as, the way everyone's treating you does affect your self image, but also getting into another body and realizing, "Hey, it kind of feels okay to get scratched on the head." That's not something that's as socially acceptable among humans. In some situations it is, but when you're in the dog's body, it's like "I can just enjoy this," and enjoy the perks. He ended up really liking a lot of things about being in a dog's body, and they were just a good fit for him. But I wouldn't say there's any sort of Spiritual, "dogs are loyal, therefore TenSoon is loyal" thing. The same goes for Aviar powers. A Mistwraith/Kandra needs to do more than eat one to get their spiritual adaptations. Spoiler https://wob.coppermind.net/events/370-skyward-seattle-signing/#e11902 Questioner In the past, you've said that kandra have size limitations. They can't just lop off a chunk and make a squirrel or anything like that. If a kandra was in full human form, somehow consumed and absorbed an aviar, kept it fully attached to their shoulder, it wouldn't be able to fly off but it was still attached to them, they're one contiguous body, could they get the abilities of that aviar? Brandon Sanderson No, good question. They would have to-- They're just replicating the body, they're not replicating the soul. Spoiler https://wob.coppermind.net/events/385-orem-signing/#e12602 Questioner If a kandra imitated an Aviar and went and got the parasite, would it be able to mimic the powers? Brandon Sanderson No. I think if the Mistwraith were given a Gemstone/Gemheart and were given the proper Connection (probably by Hemalurgic spiking) they could form the bond with Lesser Spren though. Quote I think the more critical question would be whether the Gemaheart can Replace Blessings as the realmic Bridge needed for the Mistwraith to regain sentience. If the gemheart does that it might birth a Kandra or it might create a whole new (non-hemalurgic) species. I think this is theoretically possible with the right Spren to bridge the gap. After all, Singers' bonding to Lesser Spren is much like a more organic version of Hemalurgy, so with the correct Spren to plug in the transformation from Mistwraith to Kandra would probably be quite achievable. Spoiler https://wob.coppermind.net/events/391-berlin-signing/#e12860 Questioner What happens in cosmere terms with Parshendi? Like, they Connect to a spren. And then, by it do they change their Identity, or what? Brandon Sanderson Yes. Basically what's happening is, that symbiosis has a similar effect to Hemalurgy, but not so nasty. And it's being reflected there in the Physical Realm. To further the parallels between Gemhearts and Hemalurgic spikes, I think we even see Cognitive Shadows (the Fused) use Gemhearts as an anchor to a body like how Kelsier uses a Hemalurgic spike. Breaking the Gemheart (as Kaladin did in OB) immediately kills the Fused, probably by severing that anchor. Though again, if trying to use Gemhearts as Kandra Blessings I think you're going to run into an issue with Connection, which will have to be resolved somehow. Edited October 18, 2024 by Trusk'our
Sythrin Posted October 18, 2024 Author Posted October 18, 2024 12 hours ago, JustQuestin2004 said: I have not the slightest clue what you mean by 'Similar to Kaladin', he has nothing in common with a Mistwraith. Sorry, meant Kelsier.
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