Odium's invasion forces relying on support from Urithiru?

[Slayd_07]

Firstly, it seems unlikely that any of the recently-discovered invasions were begun by Taravangian - they were only discovered a day after his Ascension, I think they were all planned by Rayse. Beyond that, every invasion was designed to begin immediately after Rayse thought Urithiru would be fully under their control at the end of RoW. 

Because of that, it seems likely that the current invasion plans were made with the assumption that Urithiru would be under Odium's control - I imagine Odium was planning to make the deal with Dalinar after the sibling was unmade, pretending that Navani had reclaimed the tower. So - the coalition has at least one advantage right now, the coalition was supposed to have no Oathgate access while they occurred. Does this seem likely? Is there a realistic way for these forces to be mobilized by Taravangian that I missed? 

[CtrlAltDepressed]

14 minutes ago, Slayd_07 said:

Firstly, it seems unlikely that any of the recently-discovered invasions were begun by Taravangian - they were only discovered a day after his Ascension,

So i would tend to agree with this. That there wasn't enough time to mobile all of those people. 

 

However, i've been thinking about this, and its certainly possible that T set this up. When Sazed Ascended he used the power to move the planets orbit, rearranged the surface of the planet, created full species and modified others. 

 

In comparison to that, getting an invasion force to several cities in 1 day seems like barely an inconvenience. 

 

Lets walk through the steps to make that happen. 

 

-assume there are already groups of fused around Roshar (we know this is true)

-send voidspren to carry messages to those fused on where to move and when

    -dont even need this step, he can slow time to nothing and have a personal conversation with each fused or each fused leader

    -manifest more raysium for said fight (if needed)

-create perpendicularities at those locations

-you are a shard so those perpendicularities can act like oathgates

-congrats your invasion force is now ready to invade

 

Now, if T could do this, why didnt he just smite all those who opposed him or something else to immediately win? He is still restricted on what and who he can influence. However, all of the Fused are fully his. He should have no trouble teleporting them anywhere he needs them, especially during his Ascension. 

 

I dont know if we will ever know wether this plan was Rayse or Taravangian, but it is certainly within T's Ascension power to make this happen. 

Edited October 4, 2024 by CtrlAltDepressed

[listerfeend]

51 minutes ago, CtrlAltDepressed said:

I dont know if we will ever know wether this plan was Rayse or Taravangian, but it is certainly within T's Ascension power to make this happen. 

Yes, it definitely does seem to be within the power of a Shard, especially at "just Ascended" power levels. 

Edit: Actually, the more I think about this, the less I think it's possible. Could Odium manifest all of the stuff they need, the ships, weapons, everything else? Sure. Could he communicate the plan to all of the Fused and the Skybreakers? Also, yeah, I think so. Could he even give them perpendicularities and transport them to Shadesmar? Yes.

I struggle to accept that that many individuals could be mobilized so efficiently within the time frame given. Even giving all of them all of the instructions, it still takes time to move people. Get people into position. People are the breaking point in this. And while the Fused are certainly more than "people", they are ancient spirits, after all, they are still individuals with their own failings, and I just can't see the plan working like this in such a short time frame... 

I definitely leave the door open for this being the case, I just... It would definitely need a LOT of very good explanation

Edited October 4, 2024 by listerfeend

[Wanguu He/Him]

I think it's definitely possible that a shard could do this. However, I think this much direct action could leave Odium vulnerable.

2 hours ago, CtrlAltDepressed said:

When Sazed Ascended he used the power to move the planets orbit, rearranged the surface of the planet, created full species and modified others. 

Sazed didn't have any other shards to worry about at this moment (I think), and considering that Taravangian got his lecture from Cultivation after becoming a shard, I think this much direct action is unlikely.

[alder24]

2 hours ago, Slayd_07 said:

Firstly, it seems unlikely that any of the recently-discovered invasions were begun by Taravangian - they were only discovered a day after his Ascension, I think they were all planned by Rayse. Beyond that, every invasion was designed to begin immediately after Rayse thought Urithiru would be fully under their control at the end of RoW. 

Because of that, it seems likely that the current invasion plans were made with the assumption that Urithiru would be under Odium's control - I imagine Odium was planning to make the deal with Dalinar after the sibling was unmade, pretending that Navani had reclaimed the tower. So - the coalition has at least one advantage right now, the coalition was supposed to have no Oathgate access while they occurred. Does this seem likely? Is there a realistic way for these forces to be mobilized by Taravangian that I missed? 

I agree, invasions into Azir and Thaylen had to be planned by Rayse, but the one into the Shattered Plains could be made all by Taravangian. This is because there are just Fused in the invasion force - they don't need logistics, they don't need sleep, they are much faster and could be gathered and deployed quicky. Voidlight is all they need, which can be provided by Odium through song of prayers. 

However I highly doubt Rayse planned to use Urithiru Oathgates. The gates were all closed on the other side once the city fall was discovered. He couldn't have used them even if he wanted. And he still needed sizable force to stay in Urithiru to assure his control over it and prevent rebellions. 

 

2 hours ago, CtrlAltDepressed said:

However, i've been thinking about this, and its certainly possible that T set this up. When Sazed Ascended he used the power to move the planets orbit, rearranged the surface of the planet, created full species and modified others. 

Odium is bound by Honor, he can't directly use his powers like you are proposing - teleportation included. At best he could use his Everstorm like he did in OB, but I don't think there was Everstorm recently and he would have just transported them straight into the Shattered Plains (by providing favorable winds). Plus, unlike Roshar, Scadrial was made by Preservation and Ruin, Sazed can do much more than Odium on Roshar. 

[Master Silver]

3 hours ago, Slayd_07 said:

Firstly, it seems unlikely that any of the recently-discovered invasions were begun by Taravangian - they were only discovered a day after his Ascension, I think they were all planned by Rayse. Beyond that, every invasion was designed to begin immediately after Rayse thought Urithiru would be fully under their control at the end of RoW. 

Because of that, it seems likely that the current invasion plans were made with the assumption that Urithiru would be under Odium's control - I imagine Odium was planning to make the deal with Dalinar after the sibling was unmade, pretending that Navani had reclaimed the tower. So - the coalition has at least one advantage right now, the coalition was supposed to have no Oathgate access while they occurred. Does this seem likely? Is there a realistic way for these forces to be mobilized by Taravangian that I missed? 

I have to agree, that at least two of these armies were already in motion before the agreement was made. The 1000 fused strike force being the exception. They do have a direct link to Odium and could be mobilized very quickly. This means that perhaps Odium was not expecting for the Radiants to be able to move their forces quickly. Taravangian may have improved upon Rayes plan by adding the third strike force because they lost Urithiru. In fact it is likely that Rayes probably thought the attack on Thaylin city would be defended with everything and then seizing Azir would be the prize. Mr. T. being a genius realizes he could still win everything. 

[+Oltux72 he/him]

On 10/4/2024 at 8:23 PM, Slayd_07 said:

Because of that, it seems likely that the current invasion plans were made with the assumption that Urithiru would be under Odium's control - I imagine Odium was planning to make the deal with Dalinar after the sibling was unmade, pretending that Navani had reclaimed the tower. So - the coalition has at least one advantage right now, the coalition was supposed to have no Oathgate access while they occurred. Does this seem likely? Is there a realistic way for these forces to be mobilized by Taravangian that I missed? 

Under that assumption it becomes very hard to see why the Singers are splitting their forces. The point of doing three attacks at once is making the Radiants split their forces. Without oath gates they could not move them to Thaylenah or the Shattered plains anyway.