Metals in body?

[Sythrin]

Metals inside or partially inside are allomantic inapt, for the most people.

What if somebody is stabbed by a blade with a wooden handle and the knob of the handle had a seperate ball of metal.

Could you steel push the knob and thereby the whole knife?

[alder24]

30 minutes ago, Sythrin said:

Metals inside or partially inside are allomantic inapt, for the most people.

What if somebody is stabbed by a blade with a wooden handle and the knob of the handle had a seperate ball of metal.

Could you steel push the knob and thereby the whole knife?

I think yes, as long as the blade and the ball aren't one piece of metal, connected under the handle (which I think usually is the case with knives). If they are, I think the simple perception trick that allows you to see an object as many pieces (Kelsier is doing this to spin rods, or Wax with bullets) might be enough for you to be able to push on the ball (but it may resist a little more, hard to say).

[Treamayne]

1 hour ago, PanicPug said:

Could you point me to when those are described? Because my first thought was that it shouldn't make a difference due to the sword/knife/whatever being perceived as one object, but I seem to have totally missed that part with the perception trick you mention in both Mistborn eras 

TFE:

Spoiler

Ch 34:

Quote

Kelsier released the bars and Pushed himself to the side just slightly, allowing the bars to fly between the archers and the fleeing prisoners.

The archers fired.

Kelsier grabbed the bars, flaring both steel and iron, Pushing against one tip of each bar and Pulling against the opposite tip. The bars lurched in the air, immediately beginning to spin like furious, lunatic windmills. Most of the flying arrows were sprayed to the side by the spinning rods of iron.

 

 

WoA:

Spoiler

Ch 17:

Quote

She shook her head and flared tin, clearing her vision with a flash of pain and other senses. Surely Zane hadn’t fared better. He must have fallen as—

Zane hung a few feet away. He’d found a coin—Vin couldn’t fathom how—and was Pushing against it below him. However, he didn’t shoot away. He hovered above the wall top, just a few feet in the air, still in a half tumble from Vin’s kick.

As Vin watched, Zane rotated slowly in the air, hand outstretched beneath him, twisting like a skilled acrobat on a pole. There was a look of intense concentration on his face, and his muscles—all of them, arms, face, chest—were taut. He turned in the air until he was facing her.

Annotations to AoL:

Quote

Brandon Sanderson

Marasi is an Allomancer

One of my big goals in these post-epic Mistborn books is to give a chance for more limited-power people (Mistings and their Feruchemical cousins, Ferrings) a chance to shine. In the previous trilogy, the focus really was on the Mistborn. Vin and Kelsier fit the epic fantasy mindset I wanted, powerful in an epic sort of way, broadly capable with abilities in a lot of areas.

For these books, I wanted to show people who had one or two powers, instead of sixteen, and show how specialization can achieve some incredible results. Because of that, I intentionally held back in the first trilogy in letting Vin do a few things. (Note how much better Zane was with minute steelpushes and ironpulls than she was.) Vin was incredibly skilled, but because she had so many powers to work with, she didn't home in as much on any one of them. Things like Wax's steel bubble are tricks I wanted to save for people like Wax. (He's what we’d call in the Mistborn world a steel savant, so capable with his metal—and having burned it so long, for so many years—that he's got an instinctive ability with it that lets him be very precise.)

And so we come to Marasi, who has the power opposite—but paired with—Wayne's ability. Both she and Wayne have powers I wanted to delve into. Indeed, I kind of promised that the last metals would get highlighted in these newer books. Matching that, I've given Miles the same power the Lord Ruler used to heal himself from so many incredible wounds. I wanted to explore more of what this skill was capable of when not overshadowed by so many other powers and abilities.

The Alloy of Law Annotations (Nov. 30, 2015)

 

BoM:

Spoiler

Prologue:

Quote

Time froze. One bullet hanging just before Forch, their main fight over the bar which—bit by bit—crushed Waxillium. His chest flared in pain, and a scream slipped from his lips.

He was going to die here.

I just want to do what is right. Why is that so hard?

Forch stepped forward, grinning.

Waxillium’s eyes fixed on that bullet, glittering golden. He couldn’t breathe. But that bullet …

Metal is your life.

A bullet. Three parts metal. The tip.

Metal is your soul.

The casing.

You preserve us …

And the knob at the back. The spot the hammer would hit.

In that moment, to Waxillium’s eyes, they split into three lines, three parts. He took them all in at once. And then, as the bar crushed him, he let go of two bits.

And shoved on that knob at the back.

The bullet exploded. The casing flipped backward into the air, Pushed by Forch’s Allomancy, while the bullet itself zipped forward, untouched, before drilling into Forch’s skull.

 

WoB :

Spoiler

Sporkify

How much control do Allomancers have over pushing and pulling metals?

Brandon Sanderson

Depends on the Allomancer. Zane and Kelsier were both unusually skilled in this area, and represent the higher end of what is possible.

Hero of Ages Q&A - Time Waster's Guide (Oct. 15, 2008)

Hope that helps

[PanicPug]

On 9/21/2024 at 8:43 PM, alder24 said:

(...) I think the simple perception trick that allows you to see an object as many pieces (Kelsier is doing this to spin rods, or Wax with bullets) might be enough for you to be able to push on the ball (but it may resist a little more, hard to say).

Could you point me to when those are described? Because my first thought was that it shouldn't make a difference due to the sword/knife/whatever being perceived as one object, but I seem to have totally missed that part with the perception trick you mention in both Mistborn eras 

[PanicPug]

@Treamayne ah that's, awesome, thank you so much  I totally glanced over those details when reading and listening to the stories  

For the bullet that is quite comprehensible since it is made from different parts, but usually perceived as a whole.

But I have difficulties understanding how this works for Kelsier's bars or what exactly Zane is doing. Is the latter mentally splitting the coin into different parts, let's say into individual numbers or symbols on the coin? Or are the coins made from different distinct metals, like a 1 or 2 Euro coin? But if so, where is the median point of each part, shouldn't they overlap in the dead center of the coin?

As for Kelsiers bars, if he mentally splits them into tip - main body - tip (that still sounds like a stretch to me, but I can live with that) ... how far does it go? Like, would one be able to split a bar (or any object for that matter) into let's say 20 different equal parts and influence each of them separately? Is that what Zane is doing? So many questions 

Edited September 25, 2024 by PanicPug

[Treamayne]

3 minutes ago, PanicPug said:

But I have difficulties understanding how this works for Kelsier's bars or what exactly Zane is doing. Is the latter mentally splitting the coin into different parts, let's say into individual numbers or symbols on the coin? Or are the coins made from different distinct metals, like a 1 or 2 Euro coin? But if so, where is the median point of each part, shouldn't they overlap in the dead center of the coin?

No, they are two different, related skills. 

• Wax views an object by it's component parts by Cognitively recognizing that the whole is assembled, and changing his perception thereby
• Kelsier and Zane are also influencing perception, but rather than the whole/part thing - they are skilled enough to change the "you can only push on center mass" perception - and so they use two different metals (iron and steel) to each push off-center (Bar ends for Kelsier, Coin for Zane - but not using his center mass he's directing the force head and feet). 
  • In Kel's case, the push/pull on a light object mid-air causes the bar to spin in place as the equal-force push/pulls on opposite sides
  • In Zane's case, the equal force push/pull on a coin against the battlement means the coin cannot move, but he rotates slowly, pulling down his feet and pushing up his head (until upright)

Three skills, all related but not identical - all meant to foreshadow that what Kelsier first taught Vin was "not quite the whole story" since all in-world explanations are bounded by the understanding of the characters, not the true limits of the magic. 

[alder24]

39 minutes ago, PanicPug said:

As for Kelsiers bars, if he mentally splits them into tip - main body - tip (that still sounds like a stretch to me, but I can live with that) ... how far does it go? Like, would one be able to split a bar (or any object for that matter) into let's say 20 different equal parts and influence each of them separately? Is that what Zane is doing? So many questions 

They can split a metal object to many, many lines - they can see like an Inquisitor and have lines pointing to every axi at the highest end of this ability (the very highest). They can push on every line. 

Spoiler

Kyrroti

If I were burning iron, where would the line point to on a steel hula-hoop?

Brandon Sanderson

For something like that, it would depend on the Steelpusher's power. For some, it would just be pointing generally toward the center of the hoop--but for skilled Steelpushers, they'd be able to see softer lines pointing in all directions around the hoop.

Skyward Pre-Release AMA (Oct. 12, 2018)

 

Spoiler

Brandon Sanderson

By the way, you probably remember form book one the way that Inquisitors see. They have such a subtle touch with Steel and Iron, and their lines, that they can see via the trace metals in everyone's bodies and in the objects around them.

The thing is, any Allomancer with access to iron or steel could learn to do this. Some have figured it out, in the past, but in current times, nobody–at least, nobody the heroes know–is aware of this. Except, of course, for Marsh.

And he chose not to share it.

The Well of Ascension Annotations (Nov. 11, 2007)

 

33 minutes ago, Treamayne said:

In Zane's case, the equal force push/pull on a coin against the battlement means the coin cannot move, but he rotates slowly, pulling down his feet and pushing up his head (until upright)

Huh, thanks for explaining this, I never really understood this scene before. I always thought he found some coins below the wall because of his increased A-steel from a spike, which were invisible to Vin, but I always knew I was missing something here. Now it makes a lot of sense.

[PanicPug]

Thanks for the explanations and quotes  I've never picked up on those subtleties, but they're super interesting