Fleet and Kaladin's Journey

[Lightspine]

The idea that Fleet's song is an act of foreshadowing for Kaladin's arc in book 5 has been looming large in my mind ever since we learned that he's headed to Shinovar, and I've seen some discussion of it around here. With the release of these preview chapters, however, some additional details have popped up that have given this idea even more weight to me.

The first and most obvious one is that Kaladin's plan is to literally ride the highstorm to Shinovar. I mean, could the connection get any more heavy-handed than that?

But I also think there's some more subtle details that are important to examine, especially pertaining to the Wind's whisperings to Kaladin. For example, we've learned that Hoid's rendition of the Wandersail was told to the beat of one of the Rhythms of Roshar. What's more, the reason Kaladin could hear the music even as Wit spoke was because the Wind was echoing this Rhythm back. Let's re-examine some of the passages surrounding Fleet's song with this knowledge:

Quote

Wit abruptly slapped the strings, then began to play them with ferocious intent. A vibrant, energetic repetition. One punctuated note, then seven in a row, frenzied.

The rhythm got inside of Kaladin. It seemed to shake the entire room.

(...)

There was nothing of humor to those notes. Those powerful notes. Wit added a second melody, complementing the first. Was he playing that with his other hand? Both at the same time? How could one man, one instrument, produce so much music?

(...)

How did Wit play this music with only two hands? Surely another hand had joined him. Should Kaladin look?

- Words of Radiance, Chapter 59

Compare this to how Hoid's music is described during his telling of the Wandersail:

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This man was extremely talented. The odd melody he played was alien, almost unreal, like something from another place and time. It echoed down the chasm and came back; it almost sounded like the man was playing a duet with himself.

(...)

He began to play. The notes were quicker, sharper, than the ones he'd played earlier. They almost seemed to tumble over one another, scurrying out of the flute like children racing one another to be first. They were beautiful and crisp, rising and falling scales, intricate as a woven rug. 

Kaladin found himself transfixed. The tune was powerful, almost demanding. As if each note were a hook, flung out to spear Kaladin's flesh and hold him near.

- The Way of Kings, Chapter 57

With our new knowledge in mind, it seems entirely plausible to me that the Wind is acting as a "third hand" during Hoid's performance of Fleet's song, much like it acted as a duet partner for the Wandersail. I personally think that this is only possible because Fleet's song is also set to a Rhythm, because of the way both of these melodies seem to grip Kaladin.

Another new and interesting detail is that Kaladin's journey is going to start from the Azimir oathgate. At first, this seems to make it dissimilar to Fleet's race. However, I think the way that the race is described lines up quite nicely with the grander arc of Kaladin's journey throughout these books:

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"No! The storm grew close, 'til it chewed his heels. Upon his neck, Fleet felt its chill. Its breath of ice was all around, a mouth of night and wings of frost. Its voice was of the breaking rocks; its song was of the crashing rain."

Kaladin could feel it. Icy water seeping through his clothing. Wind buffeting his skin. A roar so loud that soon, he could hear nothing at all.

He'd been there. He'd felt it.

"Then the tip he reached! The point he found! Fleet climbed no more; he crossed the peak. And down the side, his speed returned! Outside the storm, Fleet found the sun. Azir's plains were now his path. He sprinted west, more broad his stride."

- Words of Radiance, Chapter 59

Kaladin has been mentally put through the ringer in the past few books, but at the start of WaT he's in the best place he's been in for a very long time. Figuratively speaking, he's escaped the storm and found the sun. Right in time for him to start a journey from Azimir. Unfortunately, the rest of Fleet's journey doesn't paint a particularly happy picture for Kaladin.

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"But he was growing weak," Kaladin said. "No man can run that far without getting tired. Even Fleet."

"Yet soon the race its toll did claim. His feet like bricks, his legs like cloth. In gasps our runner drew his breath. The end approached, the storm outdone, but slowly did our hero run."

"More mountains," Kaladin whispered. "Shinovar."

"A final challenge raised its head, a final shadow to his dread. The land did rise up once again, the Misted Mountains guarding Shin. To leave the storming winds behind, our Fleet again began to climb."

- Words of Radiance, Chapter 59

(By the way, the previous two quoted sections are back to back. I just wanted to point out because it was striking to me how similar they are to what Kaladin's about to do)

As we all know, Fleet dies at the end of this story. Kaladin has been assembling enough death flags to stock an embassy during these preview chapters, but there are also other more interesting interpretations of Fleet's—and by proxy Kaladin's—fate.

Quote

"For glory lit, and life alive, for goals unreached and aims to strive. All men must try, the wind did see. It is the test, it is the dream."

(...)

"His body dead, but not his will, within those winds his soul did rise."

"It flew upon the day's last song, to win the race and claim the dawn. Past the sea and past the waves, our Fleet no longer lost his breath. Forever strong, forever fast, forever free to race the wind."

- Words of Radiance, Chapter 59

I've seen a lot of discussion on here and elsewhere about Kaladin potentially picking up Honor, and this could definitely line up with the above passages. I'm not completely sold on it, but it seems highly plausible. Additionally, there's a lot of mentions of the wind here which might be the capital-W Wind.

The other highly theorized fate for Kaladin is reforging the Oathpact and becoming a Herald, but I'm not sure if the above passage supports that. It could maybe be spun that way though.

And now for some slightly more crackpot ideas:

The Wind has whispered warnings about an incoming storm to Kaladin. It seems to me that Kaladin won't just be riding a highstorm to Shinovar, but that he'll have to accomplish his mission before this "storm" arrives. You could even say that he's racing this storm, metaphorically.

Fleet's story ends with the storm physically stopping at Shinovar upon his death:

Quote

"The storm approached and found him there. It stilled and stopped upon its course! The rains they fell, the winds they blew, but forward they could not progress."

(..)

"So in that land of dirt and soil, our hero stopped the storm itself."

- Words of Radiance, Chapter 59

The optimistic interpretation of this is that Kaladin averts this "storm" that the Wind describes.

What makes me especially suspicious about this is that the storm Fleet races is never referred to as a highstorm. Seriously. I read the whole the like three times before I noticed this, so I've decided to compile every instance of the word "storm" being used during the song below as proof of this.

Quote

"He ran from the storm," Kaladin said softly.

"For Fleet so sure, and Fleet the quick, to all that heard he yelled his goal: to beat the wind, and race a storm."

"The storm grew strong, the storm grew wild. Who was this man all set to dash? No man should tempt the God of Storms."

Fleet took his mark on the shore, leaning forward in a running posture, waiting as the stormwall thundered and crashed across the sea toward him.

"The storm so grand, it raged and spun, but away from it our Fleet did urn! The lead was his, the wind behind, did man now prove that storms could lose?"

"The storm grew close, 'til it chewed his heels."

"Outside the storm, Fleet found the sun."

"The end approached, the storm outdone, but slowly did our hero run."

"The storm caught up"

"The storms again came to his back, the winds again did spin around!"

"But here the storm, it too did wilt, with thunder lost and lightning spent."

"The storm approached and found him there."

"So in that land of dirt and soil, our hero stopped the storm itself."

"The storm caught him," Kaladin said.

"The storm catches everyone, eventually. Does it matter?"

- Words of Radiance, Chapter 59

That's 17 instances of the word "storm" and zero uses of "highstorm," plus one mention of a "stormwall." I'm not going to interpret too much from this since I think it's heavily implied to be a highstorm—what with having a stormwall and sweeping from East to West—so much so that before today I would have sworn on my life that the word "highstorm" was used at some point. But if this word choice is intentional, I think it's meant to imply that the storm Kaladin's stopping won't be the highstorms. Whatever is going on, it may have to do with the "new storm" or the capital-S Storm mentioned in the Knights of Winds and Truth excerpts from chapters 3 and 4:

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"The Wind told me, before she vanished, that it was the change in Odium’s vessel that restored her voice. I wonder. Perhaps it is the new storm, making people begin to reconsider that the wind is not their enemy."

"I have read that in the ancient days, the Wind often spoke to both human and singer. It would then mean that the Wind stopped talking not because of Odium, but because of people who began to fear her…

Or to worship the Storm instead."

I don't really have any concrete theories to propose about what this storm or the Storm are—the highstorms, the Everstorm, and some third unknown storm (which may or may not be a literal storm) all seem like strong possibilities.

There's one final passage from this song that might be worth mulling over:

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"In time long past, in times I've known, [Fleet] raced the Herald Chan-a-rach."

There's been a lot of suspicion surrounding Chanarach's identity lately. Now, I don't think there's any textual evidence of Kaladin outrunning Shallan's mum or anything like that, but could this passage have a hint of truth? Has Kaladin interacted with Chanarach at some point?

Anyway that's a wrap on the long-winded thoughts I had about how Fleet's story ties in with Kaladin's. Looking forward to the discussion and any other connections you all can find!

[Ashbringer he/him]

It will be interesting to see how much of this comes true! I like the theory a lot. Fleet's story works great as an inspirational story for Kaladin, but as we've seen with some of Hoid's other stories there's always more present.

Just to add a few things:

1 hour ago, Lightspine said:

I don't really have any concrete theories to propose about what this storm or the Storm are—the highstorms, the Everstorm, and some third unknown storm (which may or may not be a literal storm) all seem like strong possibilities.

I believe the "new storm" is the Everstorm. That's the one that makes the most sense, and would drive people to see the highstorms (and by extension the Wind?) as less of an enemy, because now there's this clearly-evil storm.

As for the capital-S Storm, I had interpreted that to be the Stormfather or perhaps Honor. We know from some WoBs that the highstorms (and thus likely the Stormfather) predated the Shattering of Adonalsium, but then after Honor's arrival (and several other events) he became what he is now. We also know that humans moved to worshipping Honor soon after arriving on Roshar, but that also the religions of the singers changed. That's not entirely set in stone - stormspren are Voidspren, after all - but that's what I think it means.

 

Also, what's a good theory addition without throwing in a Death Rattle?

Quote

 

Light grows so distant. The storm never stops. I am broken, and all around me have died. I weep for the end of all things. He has won. Oh, he has beaten us. 

A man stood on a cliffside and watched his homeland fall into dust. The waters surged beneath, so far beneath. And he heard a child crying. They were his own tears.

The second just might be a reference to Szeth - especially if "dust" indicates Cheomarish' presence. But the first I think has some relevance to this. The storm isn't planning on stopping this time.

[Crustin]

I agree in thinking thinking it's pretty heavy handed with the parallels. 

Personally, I think Kaladin will die. Physically. And his soul will rise..... as a Cognitive Shadow, and will eventually replace Jezrien as a Herald. And if/when Dalinar dies in his Contest of Champions with Todium, then Kaladin will also be a King. And maybe... eventually... King... of Heralds? Who else has both the leadership potential and desire to protect the world, after Dalinar, FROM Dalinar? 

As either a Cognitive Shadow, Herald or Shard, Kaladin Stormblessed leading the Knights Radiant against a Fused Dalinar forced to change sides will be a pretty amazing and frustrating climax and cliffhanger to end on between the 1st and 2nd half of Stormlight!

[Lightspine]

Thanks for bringing that Death Rattle to my attention! It actually reminds me of yet another "storm" candidate. I saw somebody on a thread here reference that Death Rattle while bringing up the Weeping—a long period of mostly wind-free rainstorms—as a potential reason why a "new storm" would lead to people appreciating the wind more. 

2 hours ago, Ashbringer said:

I believe the "new storm" is the Everstorm. That's the one that makes the most sense, and would drive people to see the highstorms (and by extension the Wind?) as less of an enemy, because now there's this clearly-evil storm.

As for the capital-S Storm, I had interpreted that to be the Stormfather or perhaps Honor. We know from some WoBs that the highstorms (and thus likely the Stormfather) predated the Shattering of Adonalsium, but then after Honor's arrival (and several other events) he became what he is now. We also know that humans moved to worshipping Honor soon after arriving on Roshar, but that also the religions of the singers changed. That's not entirely set in stone - stormspren are Voidspren, after all - but that's what I think it means

I agree that this is probably the most straightforward interpretation, but it feels like something is missing. I agree that capital-S Storm is almost certainly highstorms/Stormfather/Honor, which seems to imply the Wind is a separate entity. So it doesn't quite make sense to me that the Everstorm making people see highstorms in a separate light would be what restored the Wind's voice. This seems especially strange when you consider that "fear of the Wind" somehow coincided with "worship of the Storm." But the Everstorm is certainly a top candidate for "new storm", alongside whatever "storm" the Wind is warning Kaladin of during these previews.

While we're on this topic, I'm not sure how much faith we're supposed to put into the Knigths of Wind and Truth author's musings here. In their own words, they're making an educated guess, and they might even be proposing two completely separate theories—the second passage I quoted could be implying that it was never fear of the Wind at all that lead to the loss of her voice, but rather worship of the Storm. Maybe people are worshipping the Storm less now is restoring the Wind's voice? Dalinar's publication of Oathbringer and his declaration of Honor being dead could be shifting public perception of Vorinism and worship of the Almighty.

[Ashbringer he/him]

47 minutes ago, Lightspine said:

I agree that this is probably the most straightforward interpretation, but it feels like something is missing. I agree that capital-S Storm is almost certainly highstorms/Stormfather/Honor, which seems to imply the Wind is a separate entity. So it doesn't quite make sense to me that the Everstorm making people see highstorms in a separate light would be what restored the Wind's voice. This seems especially strange when you consider that "fear of the Wind" somehow coincided with "worship of the Storm." But the Everstorm is certainly a top candidate for "new storm", alongside whatever "storm" the Wind is warning Kaladin of during these previews.

Something does seem to be missing, yeah. Depends how much the Wind and Storm were separate entities - they seem to be separate entities in actuality, but in the minds of men (especially before the Stormfather was altered by Honor), people might consider the Wind and Storm simply slightly different aspects of the same highstorm.

There's also the weird phrasing: "to reconsider that the wind is not their enemy". That could be read two ways - that they're considering the possibility that the Wind isn't an enemy, or that they're considering that Wind now is their enemy. The first is the one that makes sense, but it could be either.

As for the Everstorm, I doubt it's shown all its tricks yet. Somehow the stormform sung it into the Physical Realm, somehow it gave back Connection and Identity to the singers, and somehow it's keeping the Fused in place so they can be reborn instead of sending them back to Braize. It's easy to think "oh that's normal" because it's what we've seen, but it's in pretty drastic violation of the Oathpact. (Unrelated, but I wonder if / for how long people in Shadesmar pre-WoR were seeing this giant Everstorm circling around waiting to enter the Physical...)

47 minutes ago, Lightspine said:

While we're on this topic, I'm not sure how much faith we're supposed to put into the Knigths of Wind and Truth author's musings here. In their own words, they're making an educated guess, and they might even be proposing two completely separate theories—the second passage I quoted could be implying that it was never fear of the Wind at all that lead to the loss of her voice, but rather worship of the Storm. Maybe people are worshipping the Storm less now is restoring the Wind's voice? Dalinar's publication of Oathbringer and his declaration of Honor being dead could be shifting public perception of Vorinism and worship of the Almighty.

From what we learn in this week's readings - that Lost Shardblades eventually vanish from the Physical Realm because nobody thinks about them - I wonder if the same principle applies to the Wind. It is a matter of people worshipping the Storm, but it's more a matter of them not worshipping the Wind, because suddenly the Storm is giving them protection from Odium and Radiants and Stormlight and all these cool things. If people aren't thinking about the Wind, then the Wind loses bits of her Physical or Cognitive presence, and is thus limited in her capabilities. 

That would explain why she initially faded, and why perhaps the ancient Spren of Stone that Venli talks to hasn't faded (because the Shin still worship Stone). It wouldn't really explain why the Wind's come back, unless the revival of the Windrunners (without sufficient worship of Honor, as he's dead) is what actually kickstarted this.

It would also have a neat side effect - it explains why the Sibling went dormant until the Radiants returned to Urithiru. I've got a few bundles of theories on that, although it's a bit off topic from Fleet and the Wind.

 

A few other things:

21 hours ago, Lightspine said:

The optimistic interpretation of this is that Kaladin averts this "storm" that the Wind describes.

What makes me especially suspicious about this is that the storm Fleet races is never referred to as a highstorm. Seriously. I read the whole the like three times before I noticed this, so I've decided to compile every instance of the word "storm" being used during the song below as proof of this.

One possible explanation for this is that the original story of Fleet - before Hoid's adaptions to make it fit Roshar's mythos or Kaladin's upcoming battles - might not have actually taken place on Roshar. The Storm works as a convenient metaphor for an impossible struggle, and that's what the story is actually about, rather than depending on the dangers of the highstorm itself.

I think this is less likely to be the case than, say, The Girl Who Looked Up (which we actually got a major clue on, I think, but that's technically revealed spoilers for another upcoming thing), because Fleet's story is much more entwined with Roshar's geography and the Storm itself, but it is a reason.

21 hours ago, Lightspine said:

I've seen a lot of discussion on here and elsewhere about Kaladin potentially picking up Honor, and this could definitely line up with the above passages. I'm not completely sold on it, but it seems highly plausible. Additionally, there's a lot of mentions of the wind here which might be the capital-W Wind.

The other highly theorized fate for Kaladin is reforging the Oathpact and becoming a Herald, but I'm not sure if the above passage supports that. It could maybe be spun that way though.

I wonder, if this theory is right, then this is another option - Kaladin dying, but instead of picking up the power of Honor, picking up the power of Wind. We've seen Tanavast's Cognitive Shadow (allegedly) fuse with the Stormfather - why not Kaladin with Wind?

I'm in team Honor going to someone else, mostly because I want to see the Shard of War 

[alder24]

9 minutes ago, Ashbringer said:

It would also have a neat side effect - it explains why the Sibling went dormant until the Radiants returned to Urithiru. I've got a few bundles of theories on that, although it's a bit off topic from Fleet and the Wind.

The Sibling was turning herself off before the Recreance. Since then she pretended to be dead and was sleeping, but was hurt due to BAM imprisonment, unable to hear the tone of Honor and produce her light to power her systems. But their defenses were already failing when the Tower was being abandoned - when people were still thinking about them quite passionately. OB epigraphs ch 69-70, 73:

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"The wilting of plants and the general cooling of the air is disagreeable, yes, but some of the tower's functions remain in place. The increased pressure, for example, persists."

"Something is happening to the Sibling. I agree this is true, but the division among the Knights Radiant is not to blame. Our perceived worthiness is a separate issue."

"I am worried about the tower's protections failing. If we are not safe from the Unmade here, then where?"

 

[Lightspine]

30 minutes ago, Ashbringer said:

From what we learn in this week's readings - that Lost Shardblades eventually vanish from the Physical Realm because nobody thinks about them - I wonder if the same principle applies to the Wind. It is a matter of people worshipping the Storm, but it's more a matter of them not worshipping the Wind, because suddenly the Storm is giving them protection from Odium and Radiants and Stormlight and all these cool things. If people aren't thinking about the Wind, then the Wind loses bits of her Physical or Cognitive presence, and is thus limited in her capabilities. 

That would explain why she initially faded, and why perhaps the ancient Spren of Stone that Venli talks to hasn't faded (because the Shin still worship Stone). It wouldn't really explain why the Wind's come back, unless the revival of the Windrunners (without sufficient worship of Honor, as he's dead) is what actually kickstarted this.

 

I really like this take! When it comes the Wind coming back, I'm now beginning to think it's likely a confluence of factors. The Wind herself accredits Odium changing hands, while our mystery author is speculating along other lines. Maybe it's the additive effects from those and stuff like the return of Windrunners and less worship of Honor.

You also make some great points about the Everstorm, I'd forgotten exactly how strange and unprecedented it is compared to what was going on in previous Desolations. 

 

35 minutes ago, Ashbringer said:

One possible explanation for this is that the original story of Fleet - before Hoid's adaptions to make it fit Roshar's mythos or Kaladin's upcoming battles - might not have actually taken place on Roshar. The Storm works as a convenient metaphor for an impossible struggle, and that's what the story is actually about, rather than depending on the dangers of the highstorm itself.

 

I don't actually think an "original" Fleet mythos exists before the one we read. Hoid seems to suggest that this is the first time he's heard it—it's certainly the first time he's told it. His language around that actually makes me even more convinced that Fleet's story is Kaladin's:

Quote

Wit stared at him, instrument still in his lap. The man didn't seem angry. "So you do know this story," Wit said.

"What? I thought you were making it up."

"No, you were."

(...)

"What does it mean?" Kaladin whispered.

"It's your story. You decide."

"But you already knew it."

"I know most stories, but I'd never sung this one before."

- Words of Radiance, Chapter 59

 

[Ashbringer he/him]

32 minutes ago, alder24 said:

The Sibling was turning herself off before the Recreance. Since then she pretended to be dead and was sleeping, but was hurt due to BAM imprisonment, unable to hear the tone of Honor and produce her light to power her systems. But their defenses were already failing when the Tower was being abandoned - when people were still thinking about them quite passionately. OB epigraphs ch 69-70, 73:

Several things were happening to the Sibling in quick succession - BAM's binding certainly damaged them when the Radiants were still around, I'm not contesting that. But nobody seemed to think they were fully dead, like the Fused are convinced of at the start of RoW or the Stormfather seems to be in OB.

I'm positing that after that happened (and after whatever happened with Melishi in the Recreance, which I have a hunch on), the Sibling began to withdraw for multiple other reasons. One, no reason to really be around. Two, no one was worshipping/thinking of them, so their Cognitive and Physical aspects declined. Three - perhaps a bit out there - very little Stormlight or Towerlight was circulating in their systems, which I'm wondering if that's what the Sibling is. All of those somewhat became fixed when Urithiru was partially reactivated.

 

15 minutes ago, Lightspine said:

I really like this take! When it comes the Wind coming back, I'm now beginning to think it's likely a confluence of factors. The Wind herself accredits Odium changing hands, while our mystery author is speculating along other lines. Maybe it's the additive effects from those and stuff like the return of Windrunners and less worship of Honor.

I do think Odium's Vessel change is partially related, otherwise we'd hear the Wind by OB/RoW and not WaT. (Which we might have, just unknowingly, but that's another thing.) It's possible that Odium was actively suppressing the Wind in addition to the Wind naturally being suppressed by people being unrecognizing of her, then Odium being momentarily un-Vesseled (or Taravangian just being a stand-up guy!) let her slip through the cracks.

15 minutes ago, Lightspine said:

I don't actually think an "original" Fleet mythos exists before the one we read. Hoid seems to suggest that this is the first time he's heard it—it's certainly the first time he's told it. His language around that actually makes me even more convinced that Fleet's story is Kaladin's:

Ooooooooh. That's a good catch.

In that instance, I'd wager it's a "storm" and not a highstorm more for the second reason - it's more about the metaphorical storm than the literal one. Although, those kind of go hand in hand on Roshar.

 

It's going to be real funny when all this extra storm theorizing (stormposting?) gets overshot by a certain Shard making a Cultivationstorm...

[Diomedes]

Just a quick side note: Kaladin`s name means "He-who-is-born-unto-eternity". Kalad: eternity (OB, p.519) , in: to be born unto (OB p.515)

That would stregthen you guys` argument of him fusing with the wind and or something similiar. I personally think Kaladin will be locked in the Spiritual Realm, therby his soul "rises" . That way he is separated from Bridge 4 but can still be visited by Shallan to keep the promise of ch. 13. 

 

On 8/27/2024 at 11:53 PM, Lightspine said:

There's been a lot of suspicion surrounding Chanarach's identity lately. Now, I don't think there's any textual evidence of Kaladin outrunning Shallan's mum or anything like that, but could this passage have a hint of truth? Has Kaladin interacted with Chanarach at some point?

Anyway that's a wrap on the long-winded thoughts I had about how Fleet's story ties in with Kaladin's. Looking forward to the discussion and any other connections you all can find!

I think Fleet chasing Chanarach is referring to Kaladin making advances to Shallan, therby "chasing" her.

Edited September 13, 2024 by Diomedes