Does Kinetic Investiture have Identity?

[JustQuestin2004 he/him]

So I was speculating about a theoretical A-Chromium/F-Nicrosil Twinborn and if it was at all possible for them to 'Steal and hoard the powers of others' like it's said in the MAG. I know it's not technically canon but it's still worth discussing.

Anyway, not the point. The point is that someone questioned if the stolen Kinetic Investiture would have its own Identity and be inaccessible even if it was stolen. We know that Static Investiture, such as in Metalminds, has Identity which interferes with anyone besides the user trying to use it.

Does Kinetic Investiture have that same kind of thing? Has it ever been said or implied that Kinetic Investiture, power in use, of any kind, has Identity? 

[+Lewis Nethur He/Him]

10 minutes ago, JustQuestin2004 said:

So I was speculating about a theoretical A-Chromium/F-Nicrosil Twinborn and if it was at all possible for them to 'Steal and hoard the powers of others' like it's said in the MAG. I know it's not technically canon but it's still worth discussing.

Anyway, not the point. The point is that someone questioned if the stolen Kinetic Investiture would have its own Identity and be inaccessible even if it was stolen. We know that Static Investiture, such as in Metalminds, has Identity which interferes with anyone besides the user trying to use it.

Does Kinetic Investiture have that same kind of thing? Has it ever been said or implied that Kinetic Investiture, power in use, of any kind, has Identity? 

My understanding is that Investiture doesn't "have" Identity. It can be Keyed to the Identity of a "person" (which, for cosmere purposes, also includes artificial sapient beings/constructs) that it flows through. I'm not aware of any good reason that kinetic Investiture would/should be keyed with Identity except for the sole purpose of countering your theory because, quite simply put, kinetic Investiture gets expelled and sent back to the spiritual realm immediately after being used up anyway, so in all other cases except the one you describe it wouldn't actively benefit anyone for it to be keyed that way. With passive Investiture like Breath, the extra security makes pragmatic functional sense from a security perspective.

 

Edit: honestly, thinking about it a little more...doing what you're suggesting would, I expect, probably trick the Investiture into being keyed to the Leecher's Identity if anything, letting them use other people's powers for brief periods but not allow them to share said powers with others. This might be a security problem...lol

Edited August 23, 2024 by hwiles

[Treamayne]

28 minutes ago, JustQuestin2004 said:

Does Kinetic Investiture have that same kind of thing? Has it ever been said or implied that Kinetic Investiture, power in use, of any kind, has Identity? 

Yes. Breaths are Kinetic during an Awakening, and are definitly Keyed to the Awakener the whole time (unless you are using the command to give them away, in which case part of the Kinetic action is the Breath re-keys to the recipient). 

However, I think the larger barrier is that it is unlikely that Nicrosil Stores Spiritweb acces to Manifestations of Investiture. I say this because, if that was a default use for Nicrosil (no matter how popular that fan-theory is), then why would SoScads need an Excisor to get the power into the medallion?

[JustQuestin2004 he/him]

36 minutes ago, Treamayne said:

However, I think the larger barrier is that it is unlikely that Nicrosil Stores Spiritweb acces to Manifestations of Investiture. I say this because, if that was a default use for Nicrosil (no matter how popular that fan-theory is), then why would SoScads need an Excisor to get the power into the medallion?

Plus, the Bands of Mourning are capable of running out of Investiture, which the Malwish Medallions don't seem to do since they act like Copperminds. Which indicates that there are multiple ways of utilizing F-Nicrosil.

[Treamayne]

1 minute ago, JustQuestin2004 said:

Which indicates that there are multiple ways of utilizing F-Nicrosil.

Or the medallions aren't really F-Nicrosil - They are (possibly) Hemalurgic Nicrosil (though the excisor) and - much the same way that storing in a MetalMind and burning that changes teh allomantic effect - stealing with Nicrosil changes the way that Hemalurgic Charge taps and stores. 

[JustQuestin2004 he/him]

8 minutes ago, Treamayne said:

Or the medallions aren't really F-Nicrosil - They are (possibly) Hemalurgic Nicrosil (though the excisor) and - much the same way that storing in a MetalMind and burning that changes teh allomantic effect - stealing with Nicrosil changes the way that Hemalurgic Charge taps and stores. 

So are you saying that, like how a metalmind creates a 'new metal' in allomancy, Hemalurgic spikes count as a 'new metal' in Feruchemy? So long as they're not prevented by Identity I mean.

[Treamayne]

17 minutes ago, JustQuestin2004 said:

So are you saying that, like how a metalmind creates a 'new metal' in allomancy, Hemalurgic spikes count as a 'new metal' in Feruchemy? So long as they're not prevented by Identity I mean.

That's a theory I am working on - I'll edit or respond more in depth when I have time after work. . . 

[Quantus he/him]

Interesting theory!  Two questions to start:

Is that compatible with the WOB that says it's possible to create medallions without Hemalurgy?

The New Metal thing works with allomancy at least in part because it's being blasted by a lot of Investiture directly from a Shard (which is presumably a lot more Pure in terms of Identity, though the faces they made appear in TLM makes me think it's not totally absent).  Tapping doesnt seem all that viable viable but would Storing pour enough Investiture to get the Compounding conversion? And would Burning the spike instead provide the same effect, since the hemalurgic pre-charge should be what defines the effect?

 

[Treamayne]

23 hours ago, JustQuestin2004 said:

So are you saying that, like how a metalmind creates a 'new metal' in allomancy, Hemalurgic spikes count as a 'new metal' in Feruchemy? So long as they're not prevented by Identity I mean.

22 hours ago, Quantus said:

Interesting theory!  Two questions to start:

Is that compatible with the WOB that says it's possible to create medallions without Hemalurgy?

The New Metal thing works with allomancy at least in part because it's being blasted by a lot of Investiture directly from a Shard (which is presumably a lot more Pure in terms of Identity, though the faces they made appear in TLM makes me think it's not totally absent).  Tapping doesnt seem all that viable viable but would Storing pour enough Investiture to get the Compounding conversion? And would Burning the spike instead provide the same effect, since the hemalurgic pre-charge should be what defines the effect?

So, this may not be entirely coherent because I am not quite done researching everything; but I will try to explain. It's based off of a lot of little bits and pieces going back to the Annotations to Era 1 (I recently reread them all, which is what started my conjecture). What we know:

• All three Metallic Arts were meant to interact with each other.
• A Feruchemical Charge in a metal changes the key, so when burned with Allomancy you produce external-powered Feruchemical power.
• Brandon has sidestepped all questions about Allomantically burning spikes, due to identity
  • But he did indicate that an Inquisitor could burn their spikes (painful).
• A spike with a Hemalurgic Charge also cannot easily be used as a metalmind (because it is already invested)
  • But he confirmd that Inquisitors could use their Spikes as metalminds
• Ruin was pushing hard on the fabric of Scadrial and that allowed Hemalurgy to accomplish things that should not normally have been possible (TLM Ars Arcanum)
  • Which may explain why Inquisitors were exceptions to the above - but also possible that they had so many spikes that their aggregate "Identity" (with pieces of 12+ identity sources) short circuited this as well

Conjecture:

• So an Identity-less Spike should be able to be burned with Allomancy
  • Since a F-Keyed metal produces a feruchemical power, and
  • Since a H-Keyed metal is not using the stored MoI - but is the ability to use the stored MoI
  • Therefore the power produced would be exponential amount of the stored power - like what is produced by an Excisor to create medallions(?)
• So a Metalmind Storing H-Keyed Allomantically-burned metal seems to fit what we know about the Nicrosil portion of a Medallion
  • It stores the MoI, which then acts as a discrete "item" tapped to access the power and stored to return that MoI to the Metalmind
  • Which then implies that if this is created with H-Keyed metals, then normal Feruchemical use of Nicrosil would not be storing/tapping a Manifestation of Investiture

Hope that makes sense to anybody other than me. . . 

Annotations:

Spoiler

HoA Ch 35 Annotation:

Quote

How Hemalurgy Works

The epigraphs to this chapter and the ones around it talk about Hemalurgy. I’m feeling that by now, you’ve figured out what it does. You use a spike on an Allomancer or a Feruchemist, killing them and charging that spike with power. Then you drive that spike into someone else, and they gain that same power.

(Though they get a little bit less than the person who died. In some cases, if the spike sits outside of a body for a long time, it can lose a lot of its potency.)

Though this mechanism doesn’t add any new powers to the world, I really like the way it works. With Allomancy and Feruchemy, we already have a lot of different magic powers to keep track of. I wanted something from Hemalurgy that wouldn’t simply add to the list of abilities, but would instead fit with the feel and the nature of the magic. Something to balance Allomancy, in which a lot of power can be obtained without much direct cost to the Allomancer.

Hence, Hemalurgy. In a way, it has the most potency of all the powers, for with it you can make anyone an Allomancer or a Feruchemist. You can steal single powers from the other two arts, then mix them in a person as you wish. It adds a different element to the world—a way to obtain more power, a way for a common man to become like Vin or Kelsier, but at a terrible price. It works perfectly with who I wanted Ruin to be and what I wanted the conflict of these books to become. What is the cost of power?

Cause and effect, action and reaction.

HoA Ch 39 Annotation:

Quote

The Mechanism of Hemalurgy

The Blessings and the workings of Hemalurgy gave me some trouble as I designed the second and third books of this series. On one hand, I liked the way Hemalurgy worked by stealing powers from Allomancers or Feruchemists and giving them to other people. However, if I was going to limit myself to sixteen metals and be able to steal both Allomancy and Feruchemy, that meant I needed a mechanism to determine which power got stolen. If, for instance, you drove a pewter spike into a person who was both an Allomancer and a Feruchemist, then how would that spike know which power to suck out and grant to the one who would gain it?

As I was toying with how this would work, I realized that I needed to work the kandra and the koloss into this as well. Only, it was ridiculous to assume that the Lord Ruler would kill Allomancers to make koloss. There weren’t enough Allomancers, for one thing—plus it would be foolish to lose the power of an Allomancer to gain an inferior tool in a koloss.

So that meant koloss had to be made out of regular people, not Allomancers or Feruchemists. Suddenly I had another set of abilities that Hemalurgy had to be able to steal—the basic pieces of Preservation inside the souls of all men.

Hence the decision that where the spike was placed in the receiver, and how it was used to kill a person, influenced how the power was shaped. Now a pewter spike could steal any of a number of powers, based on how it was used. And regular people could be used instead of Allomancers—however, when that happened, the receiver was twisted much more than if an Allomantically charged spike or a Feruchemically charged spike was used.

 

WoBs:

Spoiler

Quote

Czanos

Preservation can fuel Allomancy, (minus atium.) but can Ruin fuel Hemalurgy? (Or atium?) And could Sazed fuel all three Metallic Arts?

Brandon Sanderson

Both gods could, if they wanted, fuel all of the Metallic Arts. Preservation is stronger at fueling Allomancy, Ruin stronger at fueling Allomancy or Feruchemy when it has been given via a spike. Both are balanced when it comes to Feruchemy. But this rarely comes up in the books, as it required expending power in a way that the gods were hesitant to do.

Hero of Ages Q&A - Time Waster's Guide (Oct. 15, 2008)

Spoiler

Kaimipono

Allomancy is fueled by Preservation's body? How exactly does that work? And how does that interact with Atium—it's fueled by both gods' bodies?

Brandon Sanderson

The powers of Ruin and Preservation are Shards of Adonalsium, pieces of the power of creation itself. Allomancy, Hemalurgy, Feruchemy are manifestations of this power in mortal form, the ability to touch the powers of creation and use them. These metallic powers are how people's physical forms interpret the use of the Shard, though it's not the only possible way they could be interpreted or used. It's what the genetics and Realmatic interactions of Scadrial allow for, and has to do with the Spiritual, the Cognitive, and the Physical Realms.

Condensed 'essence' of these godly powers can act as super-fuel for Allomancy, Feruchemy, or really any of the powers. The form of that super fuel is important. In liquid form it's most potent, in gas form it's able to fuel Allomancy as if working as a metal. In physical form it is rigid and does one specific thing. In the case of atium, it allows sight into the future. In the case of concentrated Preservation, it gives one a permanent connection to the mists and the powers of creation. (I.e., it makes them an Allomancer.)

So when a person is burning metals, they aren't using Preservation's body as a fuel so to speak—though they are tapping into the powers of creation just slightly. When Vin burns the mists, however, she'd doing just that—using the essence of Preservation, the Shard of Adonalsium itself—to fuel Allomancy. Doing this, however, rips 'troughs' through her body. It's like forcing far too much pressure through a very small, fragile hose. That much power eventually vaporizes the corporeal host, which is acting as the block and forcing the power into a single type of conduit (Allomancy) and frees it to be more expansive.

Hero of Ages Q&A - Time Waster's Guide (Oct. 15, 2008)

Quote

Andrew The Great (paraphrased)

What would happen if a person were to burn a metal that was Feruchemically charged using Allomancy?

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

The metal used in Allomancy is like a key or a doorway to the power that Allomancy actually uses. The metal acts as a filter, much as the Aons in Elantris do, to determine what the power actually does. However, if the metal is Feruchemically charged, then it will basically become a super-burst of Feruchemical power with no Allomantic effect. The Feruchemical charge acts as a filter as well as the metal, and changes what the power does. in this case, say you were burning steel, you would just be massively speedy for a second, and wouldn't actually have the ability to push on anything Allomantically. Hope that answered the question. I get the concept, so if you need me to explain it differently, let me know and I'll try. Oh, the other thing I forgot is that this concept only works if it's a metal that you charged yourself. If it's a metal someone else charged, it would just work like regular Allomancy, and the Feruchemical charge would just cease to exist.

Andrew The Great (paraphrased)

If someone aluminum or duralumin burned the Feruchemically charged metals, what would happen?

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

Basically the same thing as above, except with aluminum. Aluminum, they would just go away.

Idaho Falls Signing (June 20, 2009)

Quote

Questioner

For the space Mistborn are we going to have more elements?

Brandon Sanderson

The base 16 are basically it. But the interactions between them and things. And there is one more metal, there is harmonium, so you will hear about that later on.

Salt Lake City Comic-Con 2014 (Sept. 4, 2014)

Quote

Czanos

Would anything interesting happen if an Allomancer Burned a Hemalurgic spike, or a Feruchemist Tapped one?

Brandon Sanderson

Er, well, it’s possible. But you’d have to be burning a Hemalurgic spike that killed you and took your power…

Just like you can’t gain anything by burning a metalmind unless you infused it yourself.

#tweettheauthor 2009 (July 8, 2009)

Quote

Questioner (paraphrased)

Would you be able to get any kind of additional power from burning a Hemalurgic spike?

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

There would be power there, but you wouldn’t be able to access it. Like burning someone else’s metalmind.

American Fork High School Signing (Dec. 12, 2019)

Quote

Questioner

Has a Hemalurgic Feruchemist ever used a Hemalurgic spike to tap power into it? Have they ever done that yet?

Brandon Sanderson

So a Hemalurgic spike is already Invested, so it's going to resist sticking anything else in it, particularly a magic like that.

Questioner

So if there's a pewter spike then a Feruchemist couldn't store strength in it?

Brandon Sanderson

Yeah. It would be difficult.

Bands of Mourning release party (Jan. 25, 2016)

Quote

17th Shard

Can you burn the spikes? Like, Allomantically? For example, could they burn the steel in their head spikes?

Brandon Sanderson

I considered that and I eventually decided that they could, but it would be an excruciating process that would probably knock them unconscious simply by doing it.

17th Shard

Would they be able to tap?

Brandon Sanderson

Would they tap them? They can use them as metalminds, yes.

17th Shard Interview (Oct. 3, 2010)

Quote

Questioner

In reading about Adonalsium and Odium, I get the sense that it's more related to lerasium and atium than it is to, like, Preservation or Ruin. Because, sometimes it seems like we're identifying... Odium and Adonalsium as beings instead of, like, the body of--

Brandon Sanderson

Yeah, it is a little confusing by design. The question is, like, telling the difference between the Vessel who is holding the power, the intent of that power, and the physical manifestations of that power as Investiture or as whatever, these things are confusing. And I did this on purpose. I like that blurring between them. One of the things I did when I was designing the magic for the cosmere, was-- you guys know this very easily from looking at the books, I love the ideas of quantum theory, string theory, all this stuff. And even, just looking at quantum mechanics as we understand them right now. And the further you get into the details, the more the rules that you built, everything you understand upon, become blurry. And we live in this world where certain scientific principles, like-- I was sitting at a writing group, talking to my friend who's a mathematician, and I'm like, "I really like math 'cause it is objective. One plus one equals two." And he's like, "Well, the further you get in math, the less that actually is true, and the more 'One plus one equals two' is a philosophical statement, not an actual objective truth." And we talked about the nature of, the further you dig into things--

So, I tried to build the cosmere magic-- For instance, how the Bands of Mourning work. We are getting away from Step 1, which is, "Metals push or pull." We can get that. Into Step 2, where we are building complex machines out of the interactions between the magic. And we will then get to Step 3, where it's like, we can explain the principles, but you need to be a computer engineer to understand exactly how the computer is working. And I wanted to be able to build to get to that point. With the philosophy of, "What is the power, what is the individual, what is the intent," and things like that, we're kind of going that direction, in a philosophical direction. What does it mean? What are the answers?

Humans like things to be divided and put in boxes, but in nature, these boxes are usually arbitrary, of our distinction. So, I like that aspect of our interaction with the real world. So, the answer to your question is, this is not a question for me, this is a question for philosophers. Where does the intent stop, and the being begin? And what does it mean to have a body? Is the body of the original person that has taken up the Shard, the Vessel, when that drops out when they die, is that their real body? Or is that just the power pushing out something that it absorbed and recreating it, and dropping a copy of it? What is that? What's going on there? What's it mean? How much can a Vessel influence their intent? This is all a question for philosophers, that I'm going to explore in the books, but it's not the sort of thing that you're like--

Does one plus one equal two? The answer is, one plus one equals two according to this proof that we believe explains the universe, but is a little fuzzier than you think it is.

JordanCon 2018 (April 21, 2018)

 

 

Edited August 24, 2024 by Treamayne
SPAG

[Trusk'our he/him]

27 minutes ago, Treamayne said:

So, this may not be entirely coherent because I am not quite done researching everything; but I will try to explain. It's based off of a lot of little bits and pieces going back to the Annotations to Era 1 (I recently reread them all, which is what started my conjecture). What we know:

• All three Matallic Arts were meant to interact with each other.
• A Feruchemical Charge in a metal changes the key, so when burned with Allomancy you produce external-powered Feruchemical power.
• Brandon has sidestepped all questions about Allomantically burning spikes, due to identity
  • But he did indicate that an Inquisitor could burn their spikes (painful).
• A spike with a Hemalurgic Charge also cannot easily be used as a metalmind (because it is already invested)
  • But he confirmd that Inquisitors could use their Spikes as metalminds
• Ruin was pushing hard on the fabric of Scadrial and that allowed Hemalurgy to accomplish things that should not normally have been possible (TLM Ars Arcanum)
  • Which may explain why Inquisitors were exceptions to the above - but also possible that they had so many spikes that their aggregate "Identity" (with pieces of 12+ identity sources) short circuited this as well

Conjecture:

• So an Identity-less Spike should be able to be burned with Allomancy
  • Since a F-Keyed metal produces a feruchemical power, and
  • Since a H-Keyed metal is not using the stored MoI - but is the ability to use the stored MoI
  • Therefore the power produced would be exponential amount of the stored power - like what is produced by an Excisor to create medallions(?)
• So a Metalmind Storing H-Keyed Allomantically-burned metal seems to fit what we know about the Nicrosil portion of a Medallion
  • It stores the MoI, which then acts as a discrete "item" tapped to access the power and stored to return that MoI to the Metalmind
  • Which then implies that if this is created with H-Keyed metals, then normal Feruchemical use of Nicrosil would not be storing/tapping a Manifestation of Investiture

Hope that makes sense to anybody other than me. . . 

Annotations:

  Hide contents

HoA Ch 35 Annotation:

HoA Ch 39 Annotation:

 

WoBs:

  Reveal hidden contents

  Reveal hidden contents

Kaimipono

Allomancy is fueled by Preservation's body? How exactly does that work? And how does that interact with Atium—it's fueled by both gods' bodies?

Brandon Sanderson

The powers of Ruin and Preservation are Shards of Adonalsium, pieces of the power of creation itself. Allomancy, Hemalurgy, Feruchemy are manifestations of this power in mortal form, the ability to touch the powers of creation and use them. These metallic powers are how people's physical forms interpret the use of the Shard, though it's not the only possible way they could be interpreted or used. It's what the genetics and Realmatic interactions of Scadrial allow for, and has to do with the Spiritual, the Cognitive, and the Physical Realms.

Condensed 'essence' of these godly powers can act as super-fuel for Allomancy, Feruchemy, or really any of the powers. The form of that super fuel is important. In liquid form it's most potent, in gas form it's able to fuel Allomancy as if working as a metal. In physical form it is rigid and does one specific thing. In the case of atium, it allows sight into the future. In the case of concentrated Preservation, it gives one a permanent connection to the mists and the powers of creation. (I.e., it makes them an Allomancer.)

So when a person is burning metals, they aren't using Preservation's body as a fuel so to speak—though they are tapping into the powers of creation just slightly. When Vin burns the mists, however, she'd doing just that—using the essence of Preservation, the Shard of Adonalsium itself—to fuel Allomancy. Doing this, however, rips 'troughs' through her body. It's like forcing far too much pressure through a very small, fragile hose. That much power eventually vaporizes the corporeal host, which is acting as the block and forcing the power into a single type of conduit (Allomancy) and frees it to be more expansive.

Hero of Ages Q&A - Time Waster's Guide (Oct. 15, 2008)

 

 

So, if I understand you correctly, you're hypothesizing that medallions may use Hemalurgic nicrosil to hack what is stored in Unsealed Nicrosilminds (similar to how Compounding uses Feruchemical Investiture to overwrite Allomantic power), thus transforming them from being a temporary ability to a permanent one?

Basically, you spike a power with nicrosil, then Feruchemically store a power with the same metal to add to the Hemalurgic charge?

Edited August 24, 2024 by Trusk'our

[Treamayne]

8 minutes ago, Trusk'our said:

So, if I understand you correctly, you're hypothesizing that medallions may use Hemalurgic nicrosil to hack what is stored in Unsealed Nicrosilminds (similar to how Compounding uses Feruchemical Investiture to overwrite Allomantic power), thus transforming them from being a temporary ability to a permanent one?

In the specific case of Medallions, my hypothesis is essentially:

• Excisor implies Hemalurgy (by definition - excise is "remove")
• Make one Hemalurgic Spike for <ability> (Example: F-Brass, since that was key to surviving the Ice Death)
  • Remove Identity - either from the spike, or before spiking
• A Soother burns the H-Keyed Brass, producing the Firesoul MoI in the form of Kinetic Investiture (X 10?)
• Now that you have an MoI in Kinetic Form and without identity, that gets stored in (possibly up to 10) Nicrosil Minds
  • Resulting in 1 or more Unsealed NicrosilMinds storing the Firesoul Ability
  • Connect that with Brass to act as the Metalmind for stored heat
• Result: FireMothers and FireFathers

I hope that is more clear - though the real theory I am working on isn't just about Medallions, but how all three influence each other when funky things happen. .  .

[Trusk'our he/him]

13 minutes ago, Treamayne said:

In the specific case of Medallions, my hypothesis is essentially:

• Excisor implies Hemalurgy (by definition - excise is "remove")
• Make one Hemalurgic Spike for <ability> (Example: F-Brass, since that was key to surviving the Ice Death)
  • Remove Identity - either from the spike, or before spiking
• A Soother burns the H-Keyed Brass, producing the Firesoul MoI in the form of Kinetic Investiture (X 10?)
• Now that you have an MoI in Kinetic Form and without identity, that gets stored in (possibly up to 10) Nicrosil Minds
  • Resulting in 1 or more Unsealed NicrosilMinds storing the Firesoul Ability
  • Connect that with Brass to act as the Metalmind for stored heat
• Result: FireMothers and FireFathers

I hope that is more clear - though the real theory I am working on isn't just about Medallions, but how all three influence each other when funky things happen. .  .

Edit: sorry, I was speed reading originally and only saw what I was already thinking. 

Okay, so Compounding an Identity blanked spike to effectively duplicate a power which is then stored in a Nicrosilmind is what you're thinking, yes?

In this case, no, I don't think that this will work. We know what Hemalurgy's effects on overwriting Allomancy somewhat already; it splices the Allomancer's spiritual DNA to that of the spike, and if I remember correctly it won't actually grant access to the power itself, but will do something different (can't find the WoB for it unfortunately, so this could prove a fabrication of my own fallible memory). 

Spoiler

https://wob.coppermind.net/events/210-torcom-qa-with-brandon-sanderson/#e4616

Maru Nui

What happens when you burn a Hemalurgic spike?

Brandon Sanderson

Burning a Hemalurgic spike would have the effect of splicing your spiritual DNA to that of the person's that is in the spike, which would have some very strange consequences.

 

Edited August 24, 2024 by Trusk'our

[JustQuestin2004 he/him]

2 hours ago, Trusk&#x27;our said:

and if I remember correctly it won't actually grant access to the power itself, but will do something different (can't find the WoB for it unfortunately, so this could prove a fabrication of my own fallible memory). 

I think you mean this one

Spoiler

Questioner

If you burn a Hemalurgic spike, would it graft the piece of stolen soul onto your soul?

Brandon Sanderson

No, but it would have... There are some interesting effects there.

So maybe it would only grant you temporary use of the power?

[Trusk'our he/him]

10 minutes ago, JustQuestin2004 said:

I think you mean this one

  Hide contents

Questioner

If you burn a Hemalurgic spike, would it graft the piece of stolen soul onto your soul?

Brandon Sanderson

No, but it would have... There are some interesting effects there.

So maybe it would only grant you temporary use of the power?

Yup, that's the one.

It's worded in such a way that makes it sound like that won't be a thing. It may have other possibilities though, like being a sDNA modifier.

[JustQuestin2004 he/him]

9 minutes ago, Trusk&#x27;our said:

Yup, that's the one.

It's worded in such a way that makes it sound like that won't be a thing. It may have other possibilities though, like being a sDNA modifier.

I really hope we get to see how it all works in Era 3, since by that point it should be understood that spikes have their own Identity, like metalminds. Along with better MetallicTech that could let you forcibly blank other people's Identity, making it easy to make Unkeyed Spikes.

[Trusk'our he/him]

35 minutes ago, JustQuestin2004 said:

I really hope we get to see how it all works in Era 3, since by that point it should be understood that spikes have their own Identity, like metalminds. Along with better MetallicTech that could let you forcibly blank other people's Identity, making it easy to make Unkeyed Spikes.

Heck, you shouldn't even need Metalmind tech if you're an ambitious Hemalurgist.

You may just be able to take a duralumin spike and target their Identity, forcibly excise it, then take their Identity-free power with another spike.

Evil, but the bad guys won't care.