Kardenal_13 he/him Posted August 22, 2024 Posted August 22, 2024 Does anyone have a list of Shallan's assumed/possible truths? I tried searching Coppermind but I couldn't find any, and I'm really confused as to what "level" of radiant she is at with each spren (which I think is the point). I'm pretty much starting to doubt if any of the things I think are truths actually are.
Treamayne Posted August 22, 2024 Posted August 22, 2024 1 hour ago, Matt Snow said: Does anyone have a list of Shallan's assumed/possible truths? I tried searching Coppermind but I couldn't find any, and I'm really confused as to what "level" of radiant she is at with each spren (which I think is the point). I'm pretty much starting to doubt if any of the things I think are truths actually are. That is definitely the point WoB (RoW Spoilers): Spoiler enceladus_47 Does Shallan's "I killed my spren" count as a truth? Brandon Sanderson I'm gonna leave up to theorizing, figuring out the timeline that's going on with Shallan. What we can say is that Shallan is reconstructing, in many cases, oaths she has said before. And it is working slightly differently than someone who is saying new oaths. And indeed, saying she killed her spren is one of those steps. I'll leave it to you to try and parse through that. It's actually pretty complicated. We have a nice big page explaining all of this stuff internally, to make sure that we're keeping it all straight. Because she has violated oaths and reconstructed them, is basically what's happening. And she is regressing, and she's doing a... 1.1 steps forward, 1 step back, sort of thing, kind of frequently. YouTube Spoiler Stream 1 (Dec. 17, 2020) So, Shallan's "truths" are confusing even for Dragonsteel Staff and are not yet meant to make sense for us. . . There are lots of theories on what may be a new Truth, a reconstructed Truth, or just a lower-case truth that has an effect because of her regression, but is not a progression of Oath Truths. Hope that helps 1
alder24 Posted August 22, 2024 Posted August 22, 2024 11 hours ago, Matt Snow said: Does anyone have a list of Shallan's assumed/possible truths? I tried searching Coppermind but I couldn't find any, and I'm really confused as to what "level" of radiant she is at with each spren (which I think is the point). I'm pretty much starting to doubt if any of the things I think are truths actually are. Yes, it's a bit confusing. Shallan has two spren bonds and she is in process of reconstructing one of them, her bond with Testament. It's a mess. I believe Shallan was at 4th Ideal with Testament when she was a kid, because of the Words she spoke when breaking the bond and because during the OB end battle Radiant was wearing a Shardplate. But her bond with Pattern should be at least on 3rd Ideal, if not on 4th now. Pattern Truths: 1st Ideal I killed my father I killed my mother I killed my spren - we're not sure if that counts With Testament, I believe she reconstructed at least one Truth. In WoK she said "I'm terrified" when she Soulcasted for the first time, but it's hard to say how high she is now with Testament. WoK ch 45: Quote She began the process anyway. Ten heartbeats, to bring forth the fruit of her sin, the proceeds of her most horrific act. She was interrupted midway through by a voice, uncanny yet distinct: What are you? [...] “What am I?” she whispered. “I’m terrified.” This is true
Atlas333 Posted August 22, 2024 Posted August 22, 2024 (edited) Spoilers for the cosmere rpg Spoiler When talking about the order of lightweavers and the second oath they say "For the Second Ideal, the truth you admit to yourself can be a simle emotional one; Lightweaver Shallan Davar merely admitted to being afraid when she had been trying to convince herself she was fearless." Going off that information I would place her oaths as 2nd: I'm terrified 3rd: I killed my father 4th: I killed my mother Then "I killed my spren" would have something to do with repairing her oaths with testament which makes sense to me. Of course, the RPG isn't published yet so this information could be incorrect. But at least it's something. Edited August 22, 2024 by Atlas333 1
Quantus he/him Posted August 22, 2024 Posted August 22, 2024 Complicating matters, WOB says she was at the 4th Ideal by the end of WoR, since he swore his 3rd during that book. Quote tganchero (paraphrased) How many oaths can a Radiant swear? Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased) There is an upper-limit/threshold to the number of oaths a Radiant may make. By the end of WoR, Shallan was a step higher than Kaladin. Words of Radiance Lexington signing (March 18, 2014)
Dofurion Posted August 25, 2024 Posted August 25, 2024 (edited) On 8/22/2024 at 10:50 AM, Atlas333 said: Spoilers for the cosmere rpg Reveal hidden contents When talking about the order of lightweavers and the second oath they say "For the Second Ideal, the truth you admit to yourself can be a simle emotional one; Lightweaver Shallan Davar merely admitted to being afraid when she had been trying to convince herself she was fearless." Going off that information I would place her oaths as 2nd: I'm terrified 3rd: I killed my father 4th: I killed my mother Then "I killed my spren" would have something to do with repairing her oaths with testament which makes sense to me. Of course, the RPG isn't published yet so this information could be incorrect. But at least it's something. According to this information, if they had been speaking truths, these would only correspond to Pattern at the moment since the Spren with the least connection takes precedence over the oldest until they are equal. Spoiler Though incredibly uncommon, it’s theoretically possible to bond multiple Radiant spren—either two of the same type, or even more uncommonly, of different types (allowing you to join multiple orders). While this game’s default rules only allow each character to join one Radiant path, you and your GM can make an exception if it fits the story. For each spren bond, you must speak and maintain new oaths as described below. Same Type of Spren. If you’re bonding a second spren of the same type as your existing spren bond, you don’t need to choose your existing Ideal talents a second time, but you must once again speak the Ideals in a unique way under new circumstances, reflecting how you’ve changed since you swore the oaths a previous time. To do so, begin with the goal “Speak the First Ideal” and complete it like you did previously, progressing through the Second and later Ideals until you reach an Ideal you haven’t yet spoken. From that point on, any higher Ideals you swear can count toward all your spren bonds of that type—though each spren must accept the words. You don’t gain additional powers from bonding with two or more spren of the same type, with one exception: once you complete the goal “Speak the Third Ideal,” you can summon two of your spren who accepted those Words, allowing you to dual-wield Radiant Shardblades, and you can summon both of them using a single Interact action. Edited August 25, 2024 by Dofurion
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