SPECTRE120 Posted August 15, 2024 Posted August 15, 2024 (edited) I want to figure out where/what the Dawnshards are. (Sorry in advance if this is hard to read) We know that Hoid, and later Nomad, have held a Dawnshard. Rysn holds the Dawnshard of Change. I'm guessing Survive is a dawnshard held by Preservation and was passed to Kelsier in SH, because this matches Preservation's intent very closely. That leaves 1. I was also thinking about how there were 17 people at the shattering, the shards + Hoid. Four of them probably held dawnshards to shatter Ado. I think one was Hoid, one was Leras/Preservation, and one was Cultivation (the DS was brought through her perpendicularity to Aimia and change matches her intent pretty closely). Hoid's dawnshard might be "Create" or something, which would definitely be opposed to violence. As a counterargument, all 4 DS were referred to as the powers of creation, so having one be Create wouldn't really make sense, but maybe that's the DS that's different from the others. The last dawnshard either was or is held by a shard. We just need to find a shard that seems to be more primal and fundamental then the others. That's right, I'm talking about Ruin. There are 2 possibilities. Harmony holds the Dawnshard of "Destroy", which is why his intent is pushing towards Discord, or someone else has it. Who else do we know who likes to Destroy? That's right, Nightblood. Per a WoB, we know that Nightblood itself isn't a Dawnshard, but what if it was created using one? I think Vasher or Vivienna held the DS of Destroy to make Nightblood. A WoB says that Endowment was more involved than normal in Nighblood's creation, so maybe she got it from Ruin early on and gave it to Vasher. After all, a Dawnshard is just an extremely powerful command, and Nightblood was created using a command. Or maybe all this will get disproven in Stormlight 5. I can't wait! Edited August 15, 2024 by SPECTRE120 1
The Unsoulcastable Stick He/Him Posted August 15, 2024 Posted August 15, 2024 That was fairly understandable also those are some good theory's I approve the thought put into them although there are a few slight problems with it I believe that the DS Rysn holds is the one that Hoid held because we know that he is able to fight he just doesn't like to because we know that he has killed people before I can't remember what book it was, also one of the reasons I think that Rysn holds the one Hoid held for it was that she was perfect because she understood the process of change very intimately with what happened with her legs. also although I like the Idea with nightblood i believe if my timeline is correct then Ruin couldnt have given the DS because he was trapped in the well of ascension. although please correct me if im wrong
SPECTRE120 Posted August 15, 2024 Author Posted August 15, 2024 I haven't looked at the timeline so I don't really know if it matches or not. About your theory of Rysn's DS being Hoid's: We know from TSM that Nomad gets Hoid's Dawnshard sometime in Stormlight, but I don't really see a reason for Rysn to give it to him. That would also mean that Hoid would have been the one to put it in the mural, and I don't know why he would do that either. It's definitely a possibility though. I've seen some theories that use "Connect" as a dawnshard, and I think that fits very well; maybe that could be a DS instead of Create. I'm fairly certain that one is Survive, though.
alder24 Posted August 15, 2024 Posted August 15, 2024 18 hours ago, SPECTRE120 said: I'm guessing Survive is a dawnshard held by Preservation and was passed to Kelsier in SH, because this matches Preservation's intent very closely. Ok, when did Kelsier receive the Survive Dawnshard? Because if it was when he snapped, he wouldn't have been killed - Dawnshard ALWAYS self-protects and heals. Kelsier would quite literally snap Rashek out of existence. I'm not a fan of Survive Dawnshard. It doesn't fit. It doesn't have the same feeling as when Rysn became Change. There was nothing suggesting that Kel was a Dawnshard, no change, no healing, no immortality, no weird abilities - everything was normal. Preservation just told Kelsier to survive and Snapped him, making him into a Mistborn - that's it. Surviving is Preservation's thing after all. No Dawnshard is needed. 18 hours ago, SPECTRE120 said: The last dawnshard either was or is held by a shard. We just need to find a shard that seems to be more primal and fundamental then the others. That's right, I'm talking about Ruin. There are 2 possibilities. Harmony holds the Dawnshard of "Destroy", which is why his intent is pushing towards Discord, or someone else has it. Who else do we know who likes to Destroy? That's right, Nightblood. Per a WoB, we know that Nightblood itself isn't a Dawnshard, but what if it was created using one? I think Vasher or Vivienna held the DS of Destroy to make Nightblood. A WoB says that Endowment was more involved than normal in Nighblood's creation, so maybe she got it from Ruin early on and gave it to Vasher. After all, a Dawnshard is just an extremely powerful command, and Nightblood was created using a command. If Ruin had a Dawnshard, Scadrial would be just gone with no warning. Dawnshards are incredible weapons, which amplify the power you use. A Shard with a Dawnshard would be almost unstoppable. Ruin wouldn't have needed to find his Atium, he would have just burned the entire Scadrial to ashes in a matter of seconds. And if Ruin had a Dawnshard, he would have never given it up to Endowment or Vasher - why would he? Spoiler Questioner Odium has a history of breaking Shards. In order to do that, it feels like he must have something that gives him an edge over the other Shards. I’m curious if Odium (Taravangian) possesses anything further than the Shard of Adonalsium? Brandon Sanderson He does not have anything more than Odium. But he does have an edge. Questioner Like a Dawnshard? Brandon Sanderson Not a Dawnshard. No, if he had a Dawnshard, that would be very, very bad. Footnote: Later in this Q&A, Brandon emphasized that Ruin had an "edge" over Preservation due to their power imbalance. Dragonsteel 2022 (Nov. 14, 2022) Nightblood also isn't unique - there was a Father Machine Awakened on Komashi (Yumi book), which was ever more powerful and destructive than Nightblood. No Dawnshard was used, just some bad Awakening practices and imprecise Commands. 2 hours ago, The Unsoulcastable Stick said: I believe that the DS Rysn holds is the one that Hoid held because we know that he is able to fight he just doesn't like to because we know that he has killed people before I can't remember what book it was No. Hoid, like Noman, can't hurt a fly. He can't fight, he can't kill, he can't even eat meat. He did participate in the Shattering of Adonalsium and kill him, but that's different. And he could fight with Kelsier in SH, because Kelsier was dead - he wasn't hurting him. We don't know if Rysn's Dawnshard has the same effects. Quote Brandon Sanderson Let's talk about the Torment for a second. Hoid would not call what has happened to him a Torment. Hoid, by holding a Dawnshard, was made permanently unable to cause physical harm to other beings. Eating meat makes him nauseous (if he is somehow able to eat it, and a lot of the times he just can't). That is because of the nature of the Dawnshard that he held actively warping and changing his spirit. He would not name it this. Nomad has named what has happened to him, a Torment. This is not a term that you can universally apply as a magical aspect of something. This is Sigzil saying "this terrible thing happened to me". And indeed what is happening to Sigzil is on a level beyond what happened to Hoid. So therefore perhaps other arcanists would say, "Yes, these are an aspect of holding a Dawnshard and Torment is the right way", but that word is loaded. That word has meaning, and someone is naming it this. You are not gonna run into a large set of people- there are only four Dawnshards- and you're not gonna run into a large set of people that have held one, so there may be no consensus even in-world to what these are called, and if they are Torment or blessings or what they are. Holding a Dawnshard will warp your soul. It's so much Investiture, it is so powerful, that you cannot hold one even briefly without it having a permanent effect upon you. Secret Project #4 Reveal and Livestream (March 29, 2022) 2 hours ago, The Unsoulcastable Stick said: i believe if my timeline is correct then Ruin couldnt have given the DS because he was trapped in the well of ascension. although please correct me if im wrong Yes, that's a good point. WoK happens a few generations after Warbreaker, but also around 350 years after Catacendre. Manywar happened 300 years before Warbreaker. So it's true that Nightblood was created when Ruin was still imprisoned in the Well.
SPECTRE120 Posted August 15, 2024 Author Posted August 15, 2024 Yeah, I didn't know when Warbreaker fell relative to Mistborn, and Ruin giving up a DS doesn't make that much sense, so I guess that part of the theory doesn't work. I still think there's a DS related to Destroy or Decay, though. To clarify on the Survive DS: I don't think Kelsier got it in the pits. I think he got it when Leras dies and he takes up Preservation.
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