The new War

[JStonehaus]

Okay, so we know that there's a new Passion in town. (That's how I personally refer to Taravangian taking up The shard, because the shard is obviously passion and it says in the book that odium chose to focus on the more warlike aspects of it.) Dalinar is such a good pick for becoming Honor, and that's exactly why Brandon isn't going to have him become honor. My personal bet is in that book 5 of The Stormlight, is going to have Taravangian becoming war. He's not going to have the same hang up with absorbing other shards that Reese did, and his goal is to go out there and kick absolute butt. He's not going to have any issue with reassembling and then absorbing the Honor shard, and he's going to be the new War. 

 

Edit: Rayse, it was voice to text. 

Edited July 31, 2024 by JStonehaus

[CtrlAltDepressed]

1 hour ago, JStonehaus said:

Okay, so we know that there's a new Passion in town. (That's how I personally refer to Taravangian taking up The shard, because the shard is obviously passion and it says in the book that odium chose to focus on the more warlike aspects of it.) Dalinar is such a good pick for becoming Honor, and that's exactly why Brandon isn't going to have him become honor. My personal bet is in that book 5 of The Stormlight, is going to have Taravangian becoming war. He's not going to have the same hang up with absorbing other shards that Reese did, and his goal is to go out there and kick absolute butt. He's not going to have any issue with reassembling and then absorbing the Honor shard, and he's going to be the new War. 

I hear you, and this is a decent theory. I have one question for you though - if Taravangian is heading towards picking up Honor as well, who is the bad guy for Stormlight 5 and 6 - 10? From the end of ROW it seems clear to me that he is going to continue Rayse's plans of controlling the entire cosmere (but with his own twist). A plan he knows he wont be able to stick to if he absorbs another shard (due to Intent corruption) or leaves any alive / available for a new vessel.

[Aredor]

2 hours ago, JStonehaus said:

Okay, so we know that there's a new Passion in town. (That's how I personally refer to Taravangian taking up The shard, because the shard is obviously passion and it says in the book that odium chose to focus on the more warlike aspects of it.)

Actually, it was Rayse that decided to focus on Passion instead of what Odium is. Odium is hatred, and he didn't like how restricted that made him so he tried to rebrand to the Shard "passion."

Spoiler

Questioner

In universe, all the intents and charts and names, who names them? Do they name themselves?

Brandon Sanderson

I have kind of imagined this is one of those things that they certainly have influence over. But obviously Odium thinks that he's named something other than what he is, and I feel like these are intrinsic things that the sixteen all knew. Like, "I am missing this part of me, it is this." And it was less "we went around and named them" more like "this is just what it is". And various Shards are resisting that, but the others are all like "No, this is what you represent". 

Billy Todd, Moderator

Follow-up question there. Would the entity that we call Odium refer to itself as Odium when it's honest with itself?

Brandon Sanderson

Ehhh, I don't think Odium is capable of being honest with himself. *laughter* There are times where Odium has called himself Odium. That is more out of convenience and the fact that everyone calls you by a name. But Odium is determined to change that perception. 

Billy Todd, Moderator

So, does he genuinely believe in characterizing himself as Passion?

Brandon Sanderson

Yes. Part of him does.

Billy Todd, Moderator

Has he always ever been Odium since the Shattering?

Brandon Sanderson

Yes.

https://wob.coppermind.net/events/332/#e9507

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

2 hours ago, JStonehaus said:

Dalinar is such a good pick for becoming Honor, and that's exactly why Brandon isn't going to have him become honor. My personal bet is in that book 5 of The Stormlight, is going to have Taravangian becoming war. He's not going to have the same hang up with absorbing other shards that Reese did, and his goal is to go out there and kick absolute butt. He's not going to have any issue with reassembling and then absorbing the Honor shard, and he's going to be the new War. 

That would be a cool plan. Maybe that is even part of Cultivation's plan too? She lets Taravangian reassemble Honor, kills him, splits the Shards, and has the two she wants to into those roles. 

[JStonehaus]

12 hours ago, CtrlAltDepressed said:

I hear you, and this is a decent theory. I have one question for you though - if Taravangian is heading towards picking up Honor as well, who is the bad guy for Stormlight 5 and 6 - 10? From the end of ROW it seems clear to me that he is going to continue Rayse's plans of controlling the entire cosmere (but with his own twist). A plan he knows he wont be able to stick to if he absorbs another shard (due to Intent corruption) or leaves any alive / available for a new vessel.

I'm perfectly content with him still being the bad guy. A Shard waging war on the Cosmere? That's more than enough bad guy for me. It also lets him keep bouncing the forces on Roshar off each other and skimming the cream off the top. As much as I loathe to reference it, Dune did something similar with the Sadaukar. I'd go so far as to say that that had also been Rayse's plan; he never seemed all that invested in the singers, so much as just wanting the conflict to persist. 

12 hours ago, Aredor said:

Actually, it was Rayse that decided to focus on Passion instead of what Odium is. Odium is hatred, and he didn't like how restricted that made him so he tried to rebrand to the Shard "passion."

  Reveal hidden contents

Questioner

In universe, all the intents and charts and names, who names them? Do they name themselves?

Brandon Sanderson

I have kind of imagined this is one of those things that they certainly have influence over. But obviously Odium thinks that he's named something other than what he is, and I feel like these are intrinsic things that the sixteen all knew. Like, "I am missing this part of me, it is this." And it was less "we went around and named them" more like "this is just what it is". And various Shards are resisting that, but the others are all like "No, this is what you represent". 

Billy Todd, Moderator

Follow-up question there. Would the entity that we call Odium refer to itself as Odium when it's honest with itself?

Brandon Sanderson

Ehhh, I don't think Odium is capable of being honest with himself. *laughter* There are times where Odium has called himself Odium. That is more out of convenience and the fact that everyone calls you by a name. But Odium is determined to change that perception. 

Billy Todd, Moderator

So, does he genuinely believe in characterizing himself as Passion?

Brandon Sanderson

Yes. Part of him does.

Billy Todd, Moderator

Has he always ever been Odium since the Shattering?

Brandon Sanderson

Yes.

https://wob.coppermind.net/events/332/#e9507

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

This is going to sound very silly, but I did remember that WoB, just... Backwards. I remembered it backwards. Ope. 

I mean, stuff still stands, I guess, just a little embarrassing on my part.

[Master Silver]

So if Taravangian wins, and let's say picks up Honor,  does that mean that Dalinar is his avatar that is then bonded to both the Stormfather and the Everstorm. That would be some serious levels of power. The goal being, wield just under the threshold of power so you are not bound by it. Odium tells Dalinar, the power will bind you eventually. 

[SwordNimiForPresident the sword/that sword]

It's an interesting theory. The biggest problem I see is, can Honor be picked up? My understanding is that Odium's objective in shattering the others Shards is to make sure no one else can challenge him. That would mean making sure that they couldn't be taken back up in the future.

Personally I think all three of the Shards on Roshar will end up splintered and the Bondsmiths will be the closest things to Vessels that the planet has.

Edited August 4, 2024 by SwordNimiForPresident

[alder24]

20 minutes ago, SwordNimiForPresident said:

The biggest problem I see is, can Honor be picked up? My understanding is that Odium's objective in shattering the others Shards is to make sure no one else can challenge him. That would mean making sure that they couldn't be taken back up in the future.

Yes, Honor can be picked up and even fully restored. And yes, Odium did that to Ambition, Devotion and Dominion, but it seems like he wasn't able to do the same he did to them to prevent someone else from Ascending to Honor (probably because he's chained by Honor's restrictions). 

Spoiler

Questioner

My thought is, you know how the Stormfather in Oathbringer says he's not able, or he's never seen Dalinar be able to create the bridge. Does that mean Honor could be reborn?

Brandon Sanderson

So, there are things standing in the way, but cosmereologically, it is fully possible that another person could become Honor. The Vessel that was holding Honor before is gone. Though the Stormfather is kind of his Cognitive Shadow at this point, in a way. But the power, something else could be done with it. Or it could remain in the state it is now. Your answer is yes, but there are some hindrances along the way.

Orem Signing (March 16, 2019)

 

Spoiler

Questioner

Can it be restored? The Splinters...

Brandon Sanderson

Um, Splinters, can they be restored to... So it is, that is a yes, but restoring them will not restore Honor, the Vessel of Honor, right. They would restore Honor the Shard if this were to happen, but a new Vessel would have to take it.

Questioner

Ok so, [Adonalsium] can be put back together?

Brandon Sanderson

Adonalsium? It is theoretically possible to put a Shard back into, you know, to meld Shards together. The fact that we have already seen someone meld powers, in Sazed. So yes, but the question is who or what was Adonalsium, and is putting it back together going to do anything? Or...

Arcanum Unbounded Seattle signing (Dec. 1, 2016)

 

[JStonehaus]

On 8/4/2024 at 11:07 AM, SwordNimiForPresident said:

It's an interesting theory. The biggest problem I see is, can Honor be picked up? My understanding is that Odium's objective in shattering the others Shards is to make sure no one else can challenge him. That would mean making sure that they couldn't be taken back up in the future.

Personally I think all three of the Shards on Roshar will end up splintered and the Bondsmiths will be the closest things to Vessels that the planet has.

To my understanding, Shattering other Shards also gives Odium time and room to work in. It gives him the freedom of taking his time in plotting. 

[bmcclure7]

On 7/31/2024 at 5:09 PM, CtrlAltDepressed said:

I hear you, and this is a decent theory. I have one question for you though - if Taravangian is heading towards picking up Honor as well, who is the bad guy for Stormlight 5 and 6 - 10? From the end of ROW it seems clear to me that he is going to continue Rayse's plans of controlling the entire cosmere (but with his own twist). A plan he knows he wont be able to stick to if he absorbs another shard (due to Intent corruption) or leaves any alive / available for a new vessel.

You assume that war is good. I’m not sure the War shard wouldn’t be down for Galactic conquest. 

[CtrlAltDepressed]

4 hours ago, bmcclure7 said:

You assume that war is good. I’m not sure the War shard wouldn’t be down for Galactic conquest.

I dont think the shard would be called War. Honor doesnt make honorlight, it makes stormlight. It would more complicated than just war. 

 

Regardless what the shard becomes, it will still have traits of honor. Killing all across the cosmere for your own selfish interests is certainly not honorable. 

[JohnnyKaizen he/him]

2 hours ago, CtrlAltDepressed said:

I dont think the shard would be called War. Honor doesnt make honorlight, it makes stormlight. It would more complicated than just war. 

 

Regardless what the shard becomes, it will still have traits of honor. Killing all across the cosmere for your own selfish interests is certainly not honorable. 

Ok, this might be a stupid question, but what you just wrote is making me ask it for the first time. WHY does Honor make "Storm"light"?

Cultivation makes Lifelight..that tracks. Odium..Voidlight also tracks. They're thematically appropriate. Why exactly is Honor a storm?

[CtrlAltDepressed]

9 minutes ago, JohnnyKaizen said:

Ok, this might be a stupid question, but what you just wrote is making me ask it for the first time. WHY does Honor make "Storm"light"?

Cultivation makes Lifelight..that tracks. Odium..Voidlight also tracks. They're thematically appropriate. Why exactly is Honor a storm?

As Kaladin describes, Stormlight pushes them to action, to do something. This is closely related to Honor, as that is the 'force' that motivates people into action (not every time obviously, some people suck). 

 

It is your Honor that compels you to speak up when someone is being mistreated, or to take action when you know you can help. There's also the connection that it literally comes from a storm but I believe its also thematic to the storm that having Honor gives you. 

[JohnnyKaizen he/him]

26 minutes ago, CtrlAltDepressed said:

As Kaladin describes, Stormlight pushes them to action, to do something. This is closely related to Honor, as that is the 'force' that motivates people into action (not every time obviously, some people suck). 

 

It is your Honor that compels you to speak up when someone is being mistreated, or to take action when you know you can help. There's also the connection that it literally comes from a storm but I believe its also thematic to the storm that having Honor gives you. 

Ok that makes sense, thank you

[bmcclure7]

6 hours ago, CtrlAltDepressed said:

I dont think the shard would be called War. Honor doesnt make honorlight, it makes stormlight. It would more complicated than just war. 

 

Regardless what the shard becomes, it will still have traits of honor. Killing all across the cosmere for your own selfish interests is certainly not honorable. 

Tidoum doesn’t consider his reason selfish but I think you’re probably right there would be some change considering it seems to be desire of the shard, not necessarily vessel to go to war but I don’t think todium realizes that so he may be willing to pick up another shard

Edited August 7, 2024 by bmcclure7