RefusesToElaborate Posted July 23, 2024 Posted July 23, 2024 Ladies, Gentlemen and all in between. I have had the best sleep of my life. My moustache is at the awkward length where i keep biting it accidentally so thats annoying, and I am waiting for a bus in the rain. I am now going to share my weird theory on dualism in The Stormlight Archive to make my commute feel shorter. Current mood. It's not secret that the Fantasy genre is run by nerds. Some people will call you a conspiracy theorist for that but we are big brain Stonewards and pretending not to notice things is far beneath us. The problem is nerds can't leave well enough alone. It can never be simple as "Wizard magic man do magic things" and guys like me saying "I like your funny words magic man, give me a sword" it's always gotta make sense. Problem with making magic make sense is that reprobates like me.... well, can you hear the pitter patter of Nike airs? That's the sound of my noggin' joggin'. The question thst remains is, where's it joggin'? Let's hope not off a cliff. I believe the description of the double eye of the Almighty is in reference to specifically what Tanavast sees, not anything to do with his eyes. And I believe the Shard of Honour is very specifically pleased by things coming in pairs and mirroring each other. Now you might say something like Honours number is 10. And you are correct. However it always sat as disturbingly noticeable that this is not 1 Arc of 10 books, it's two arcs of 5. 2x5 is 10, we know this. However I will advance this theory under the understanding that Honour is couched in the number 10 and I'm specifically trying to associate him with the number 2. Symmetry is holy under Vorinism. We see it in names, Keteks, dawncities and allegedly natural geographical formations. My theory comes forward under the understanding that we also see symmetry in characters. Being deliberately broad, Dalinar and Taravangian are both rulers who struggle with a brutalistic results based worldview and a desire to abandon this world view for a more compassionate one that protects life above all else. They are both heavily related to one specific shard of Adonalsium, elderly, deal with the baggage of their reputations, dote on their family and are trying to unite the world in face of the Desolation. Let it alsonbe noted that while Dalinar doesn't have a future sight, he does have a trusted retainer with future sight. There's a reason Dalinar and Taravangian get so close is what I'm saying. Kaladin and Szeth are both liberated slaves capable of extraordinary violence. As children, they were both of the upper ends of the low rank in their respective societies. They are both stripped of all rank, Szeth as Truthless and Kaladin as Sas Nahn which I believe means "without darkeyed rank." They both develop and work past a specific hatred of their overlords and were both punished for crimes in ways that were unearned. Kaladin for doing what he was told was the greatest ambition an Alethi darkeyed soldier could aspire to and Szeth for some kind of prediction that later became true. This is seeming suspicious in their similarities, is it not? Shallan and Lift are both thieves who ingratiate themselves to a stupidly powerful political figure. Shallan as Jasnahs ward and Lift as Gawx's friend and saviour. They both have some kind of weirdness involving Shadesmar. Shallan in binding two spren and Lift in constantly existing in a small way in the cognitive realm. Three examples I feel is enough for me to posit the idea that this is not inaccurate or accidental and alledge that Brandon Sanderson, a notorious advocate for planning fiction ahead via outlines, has probably some kind of repetitive theme going on with the series. Now I admit that if the point of the while series was symmetry there's probably better ways of doing it. I think if I were writing a series about symmetry sound waves would be a specific plot point. Namely echoes, because an echo is just a symmetry of a dead noise. I will say that Navanis plotline in RoW does call attention to inverting sound waves in a way that calls an echo to my mind. I'm on the bus now. Mood is now Slaughter Beach by clutch because thinking about Roshar got me feeling a little Crustaceanish. They should do vending machines on the bus. It'd be convenient and mad for state revenue. We have symmetry between Honor and Odium. 9 to 10, Unmade to Heralds, Radiants to... I don't remember what voidbinder factions are called, Passions to Oaths, Surgebinding to Voidbinding. Let's talk about dualism. Honour seems to enjoy separating things in a very binary, yes or no kind of way. And it makes sense. You broke your oath or you honoured it. There's no gray area. In his religion, you are either darkeyed or lighteyed and must behave accordingly. You are either male or female and must behave accordingly. And you separate all of society along these two axis, the only way to avoid it is to join the priesthood. I feel like I've made a convincing case for why we should probably consider that there is a pretty deliberate focus on two distinct and separate entities mirroring each other in many areas of Stormlight. That is why I believe that as we move on in time we will see warped mirrors of prior events. I believe these series will end how they started. Or rather, mirror their beginnings. I think Szeth will wear a farmers robe to an assassination. He will finish in a flurry of colour to in a warped wat, mirror his absence of it at the start. Either that or maybe Nightblood counts because it sucks colour out of things. I believe Dalinar will at some point cast away his compassionate ideas after recognising brutality is something you perhaps want in the face of evil. I believe Kaladin will find an excuse to permanently retire from Soldiering and dedicate hia life to medicine to invert his earlier decisions. Shallan began this story by leaving her family to go on a wider quest in the world in hopes of protecting them. I expect in future she will leave Roshar, if foreshadowing is where I see it, she's gonna be in direct conflict with Ghostbloods, trying to Worldhop around. Lift began yer story begging to never change. And I think she might just he Her. And by Her I mean Cultivation. I think in asking to never change Cultivation began making plans to ascend her to a Shard, a being they will not change as its a slave to its nature. Anyway I'm just posting this out of boredom and I'm hoping to come back to it in some amount of years to compare how wrong I was. But I'd like to see if anyone else has found this symmetrical dualism idea intriguing and can point out other examples. 5
CoatRackHoid Posted July 24, 2024 Posted July 24, 2024 Another example of this is the layout of Roshar as a continent. The Frostlands fold back over Alethkar and Jah Keved, creating the Tarat sea, in a similar manner as Iri, Rira, and the Reshi Isles fold over Azir, creating the Reshi sea. The whole continent kind of looks like an infinity sign. The only caveat is that Amia has nothing close to a mirror and is just kind of there, but with how much mystery shrouds Amia anyway I'm not to surprised. The Atoll that Icewater sits on is fairly similar to the one that Akak. Karbranth mirror would be Kurth and so on so forth 3
alder24 Posted July 24, 2024 Posted July 24, 2024 On 7/23/2024 at 9:26 AM, RefusesToElaborate said: Now you might say something like Honours number is 10. And you are correct. However it always sat as disturbingly noticeable that this is not 1 Arc of 10 books, it's two arcs of 5. 2x5 is 10, we know this. However I will advance this theory under the understanding that Honour is couched in the number 10 and I'm specifically trying to associate him with the number 2. Symmetry is holy under Vorinism. We see it in names, Keteks, dawncities and allegedly natural geographical formations. Symmetry isn't just about two halfs. There are many folds of symmetry seen on Roshar. Just taking Dawncities for example, Kholinar has threefold symmetry, Vedenar sixfold, Akinah City tenfold, and Thaylen City fourfold and the Shattered Plains have four or eightfold symmetry. This pattern seems to strongly point that all 10 Dawncities have a different number for their symmetrical pattern, up to ten folds of symmetry - the number 10 appears once more. Every Shard has a number associated with them, for Honor it's 10 and it was mostly confirmed by Brandon at this point, for Odium it's 9, we don't know what Cultivation's number is yet, but there are strong suggestions that it's 3. Other Shards elsewhere in Cosmere also have their own numbers. Mistborn spoiler WoBs: Spoiler Questioner I have a theory that each one of the Shards is related to a certain number. Preservation really likes 16, Honor likes 10, and Odium likes 9. Am I onto something? Brandon Sanderson Yes. Oathbringer Houston signing (Nov. 18, 2017) Spoiler Questioner Is ten of significance in Roshar as sixteen is on Scadrial? Brandon Sanderson Yes, it is. Oathbringer London signing (Nov. 28, 2017) And while the symmetry between characters is obvious and very deliberate, it doesn't have to mean it's because of Honor, it's simply because it makes for a better story and character development. Kaladin and Szeth or Kaladin and Moash are meant to represent two sides of the same coin, specifically Moash is a representation of who Kaladin would have become if he were to pick up that Shardblade after saving Amaram. Dalinar and Taravangian are meant to be total opposition, one has a filosophy "the end justifies the means," while Dalinar swore "journey before destination." Shallan and Lift have some interesting similarities I didn't see before - Shallan is running away from her past by changing and wearing different faces, Lift runs away from her past trying not to change at all. Overall this symmetry is crafted very deliberately by Brandon and it's not just in SA, it's also present in many other books of Brandon - those conflicts make a good story and have a bigger impact on characters. We cannot attribute them all to Honor, but SA does focus strongly on this conflict between characters and their philosophy and morality. Spoiler Bayin How much research into philosophical work do you do before each book? And what inspired to use thesein particular: Kantian deontology for the Knights Radiant, consequentialism for the Alethi and Taravangian, and secular morality for Jasnah? Brandon Sanderson Why did I choose the ones that I did? I really like when stories are not just a conflict of personality; they are a conflict between ideologies and ways of viewing the world which are all valid ways of viewing the world. When I put Taravangian and Dalinar into conflict with each other, it's because they are both looking at life in a different way. And I'm kind of reaching to different philosophical bases for those. And I will butcher it if I try to use the actual terminologies, because I am not a philosophy major. Why did I take what I did? They matched the characters. And they matched what I'm trying to explore, without trying to give you the answers; trying to explore theme in stories. And I just love doing that. It's what makes me excited about writing characters. YouTube Livestream 14 (July 30, 2020) Spoiler Questioner What do you think of Moash? Brandon Sanderson ...I am very curious what the fan reactions have been. I anticipated it. Moash exists to represent a different direction that a character with some of the same motivations as Kaladin could go. Skyward Seattle signing (Nov. 10, 2018) On 7/23/2024 at 9:26 AM, RefusesToElaborate said: 9 to 10, Unmade to Heralds, Radiants to... I don't remember what voidbinder factions are called, Passions to Oaths, Surgebinding to Voidbinding. Fused and Regals - Fused are those who Return like Leshwi, Regals are Singers with forms of power like Venli. They are Surgebinders. We don't know what Voidbinding is, but it's strongly suspected it's what Renarin does with his future visions. Heralds are like Fused - they were made in response to Fused, they are Cognitive Shadows, they don't die, they return etc. Unmades are Spren, they are to Odium what the Stormfather is to Honor, or Nightwatcher is to Cultivation. Spoiler Chaos You've recently said that Rosharans call everything Surgebinding. So my question is: does Khriss call what the Fused do "Surgebinding"? Brandon Sanderson Yes. Chaos Interesting. We still don't know what Voidbinding is, but we'll get there eventually, I'm sure. Brandon Sanderson You will. Shardcast Interview (Jan. 23, 2021) Spoiler Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased) 1) The Nightwatcher and Stormfather are parallel entities such that Nighwatcher:Cultivation :: Stormfather:Honor. 2) There is sort of a parallel for Odium, but the parallel is the various Unmade instead of a single entity. 3) They are parallel in that they are all Splinters. 4) The Unmade are voluntary Splinters, because Odium ("like almost all of the other Shards") voluntarily Splintered part of it's power. 5) The Stormfather is different from the others because it's a Sliver. JordanCon 2016 (April 23, 2016) 7 hours ago, CoatRackHoid said: Another example of this is the layout of Roshar as a continent. The Frostlands fold back over Alethkar and Jah Keved, creating the Tarat sea, in a similar manner as Iri, Rira, and the Reshi Isles fold over Azir, creating the Reshi sea. The whole continent kind of looks like an infinity sign. The only caveat is that Amia has nothing close to a mirror and is just kind of there, but with how much mystery shrouds Amia anyway I'm not to surprised. The Atoll that Icewater sits on is fairly similar to the one that Akak. Karbranth mirror would be Kurth and so on so forth The continent of Roshar has not much to do with Honor, it's much older than Honor. It was designed and created by Adonalsium himself, before he was Shattered, before Honor even existed. The shape of Roshar is a slice of a Julia set of some specific mathematical function. Spoiler Aurora_Fatalis Can you shed some insight on the more esoteric design decisions, such as the map of Roshar being based on a fractal, in particular a slice of the Julia set of some seemingly-random 4-dimensional function? How do things like this come to pass? Are designs like this mandates from Brandon? Do you ask mathematicians for something obscure to hide in the map? Is fractal theory the hobby of someone on the team? Isaac Stewart This is what Brandon has said concerning Roshar and the Julia Set. He handed the picture to me and said, "Can you turn this into a giant continent?" and I said, "Yes." The process of defining the coastlines, mountains, and islands was quite fun after that. Araedox How did the Roshar map being a Julia Set affect the process of creating it? Isaac Stewart It really was no different than other maps I've made. I usually am seeing maps everywhere I go: guacamole remnants on lids, stains on restroom floors (ew!!), and random stains in the road or the way a brick wall crumbles. I like these fractal-like images and save pictures for future maps. So I just took the Julia Set and looked at it and said, "okay, now it's a real continent, where are the rivers, how does the coastline go, where are the islands, etc." Isaac Stewart r/Stormlight_Archive AMA (Oct. 1, 2019) Spoiler BipedSnowman Does this [map of Roshar] look like a storm to anyone else? Brandon Sanderson I was searching for something that at once felt organic, but would hint at a pattern. (Much like cymatic patterns, as referenced in the first book.) Fractals and mathematical functions became my go-to place to hunt, as I like the blend of structure and spontaneity they can sometimes exhibit. The slice of the Julia Set was the one that stuck with me as feeling perfect for Roshar. As the continent was specifically grown by Adonalsium, you now know the seed that was used in-world to create it. The fact that it looked like a swirling cloud is part of this all--but also part of the connection between natural patterns and the underlying math, which is a primary theme of the Stormlight books. So yes, it SHOULD look like a storm--but for deeper reasons than you might assume. Argent I asked Isaac recently, but he suggested you might be the right person for this - do you have a specific equation for the Julia set you used to generate Roshar? I know it resembles a few easily Google-able images of (shadows of slices of) Julia sets, but I was curious if had specific numbers here. Brandon Sanderson I don't have any numbers I could give you. Sorry. I might be able to find them, if I looked, but it would take more time than I'd like. Footnote: The specific equations were determined later in that reddit conversation. General Reddit 2016 (Sept. 9, 2016) 1
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