Nicrosil Issue

[Argenti he/him]

So there is an old debate on whether nicrosil stores Investiture, like stormlight, or the ability to use it. The Coppermind's page contradicts itself, with the books themselves supporting the Ability to use it, and much more. However, the Coppermine claims a necrosis compounder would have infinite investiture and cites this wob (below), which, very notably, doesn't say this. It's just Yulerule asking if a necrosis compounder could compound enough to make Nightblood and Brandon say, "So much," which is true for every compounder. That does not support a claim like "A nicrosil Compounder would be able to use nicrosil to have a nearly infinite supply of stored Investiture."

Now, it's possible I've missed something, but it seems this wob and the idea that it feeds off of don't have very strong textual or WoBual (?) evidence and should probably be moved to speculation. 

Spoiler

yulerule

*Written:* How much compounding would a nicrosil Twinborn would need to do to get a metalmind that is as Invested as Nightblood?

Brandon Sanderson

*Reading question:* How much compounding would... *mumbling*

Wow, so much.

*Writes:* Wow so much. 

yulerule

*Written:* A thousand breaths doesn't seem to be that much--the God King has tens of thousands. Would a piece of stone, wood, cloth, or plain metal that has a thousand breaths be as Invested as Nightblood, or is there something more? 

Brandon Sanderson

No, it needs more. Needs more.

*Writes:* Needs more.

yulerule

More?

Brandon Sanderson

Yeah.

yulerule

Does that-- is it taking stuff from people it kills?

Brandon Sanderson

That's a RAFO, good question.

Arcanum Unbounded Hoboken signing (Dec. 3, 2016)

 

Edited June 4 by Argenti

[Starwatcher]

Thanks for flagging this! I've removed the Compounding section on the nicrosil page, since it was basically just stating the definition of Compounding. I will note that the page (citing this WoB) does include divine Breath as something that can be stored in a nicrosilmind, which seems to point in the direction of nicrosil being able to store raw Investiture.

[Argenti he/him]

18 hours ago, Starwatcher said:

Thanks for flagging this! I've removed the Compounding section on the nicrosil page, since it was basically just stating the definition of Compounding. I will note that the page (citing this WoB) does include divine Breath as something that can be stored in a nicrosilmind, which seems to point in the direction of nicrosil being able to store raw Investiture.

Well, maybe, as the question is parphrased from memory. It's possible they asked about the shape-shifting powers (and other stuff) of the returned breath rather than the divine breath itself, and Brandon responded as such.  

Also, to me at least, It really doesn't make sense to me that it could store both raw investiture and the capacity to use it. Copperminds store information, while a Zincmind stores the ability to process information, each doesn't do both.

[CtrlAltDepressed]

14 hours ago, Argenti said:

Also, to me at least, It really doesn't make sense to me that it could store both raw investiture and the capacity to use it. Copperminds store information, while a Zincmind stores the ability to process information, each doesn't do both.

Bendalloy can store either food or water so there is a precedent for this. 

 

If i really think about it, this sort of makes sense to me. What is the ability to use Allomancy but extra investiture in your spirit? The use of nicrosil as storing investiture would explain both implementations. When you store the ability to do any of the invested arts, you are simply storing a piece of investiture that says you can do so. That isnt really different from storing normal investiture (stormlight, breaths, etc) other than our perception of it. 

[Argenti he/him]

3 hours ago, CtrlAltDepressed said:

Bendalloy can store either food or water so there is a precedent for this. 

 

They're really the same thing; they're both nutrients that you need to live, and let's face it if it (tin too) couldn't store both, it would be extraordinarily useless. 

3 hours ago, CtrlAltDepressed said:

If i really think about it, this sort of makes sense to me. What is the ability to use Allomancy but extra investiture in your spirit? The use of nicrosil as storing investiture would explain both implementations. When you store the ability to do any of the invested arts, you are simply storing a piece of investiture that says you can do so. That isnt really different from storing normal investiture (stormlight, breaths, etc) other than our perception of it. 

By that definition, Chromium, Nicrosil, Aluminium, and Duraluminium all store investiture; they each store different parts of the spiritweb. You're storing the parts that allow you to make connections, and the connections themselves (Hmm maybe thats a point in your favor), the sDNA that makes up your identity and wherever fortune is stored (Assuming fortune his is in your spirit web... somewhere).

Edited June 5 by Argenti

[CtrlAltDepressed]

16 minutes ago, Argenti said:

By that definition, Chromium, Nicrosil, Aluminium, and Duraluminium all store investiture; they each store different parts of the spiritweb.

Yes. Technically all Feruchemy is storing investiture .  But more seriously I don't think this breaks anything to have nicrosil store the ability to use an invested art as well as fuel for that invested art as well. I think there are other uses for Chromium, Aluminum and Duralumin that would make the 'dual' nature of nicrosil not an inconsistency

 

Here is just an example to demonstrate how I (think) that it works. 

 

Lets say you have a steel misting that can also store in a nicrosil metalmind. That person could burn steel and store the investiture pulled from the SR while they are burning. OR they could store their ability to burn steel at all - but not both (same as bendalloy). If they store the investiture they get while burning they could tap that to push on things without needing to burn steel. Im of the belief that if this person had other abilities they could use that stored investiture to ironpull or tinsight or a copper cloud, etc. 

 

This does raise an interesting question. If a Mistborn wants to store their abilities in a metalmind, can they store their Mistbornness in one metalmind or would they need 16 metalminds for each ability? Im of the opinion they could store all of them in 1, as that would be one chunk from their spiritweb that says 'im a mistborn' and not 'i have 16 individual abilities'. 

[AlastorBM He]

I have to ask because I don't know if I'm understanding everything very well. If you are compounding Nicrosil then you are simply generating Investiture exponentially? of the type it has been stored?

That's interesting. Now what I'm wondering is, do you store the Investiture but the capacity to use it has to be stored separately? Or is it assumed that since you can save it, you already have the capacity?

[Argenti he/him]

1 hour ago, AlastorBM said:

I have to ask because I don't know if I'm understanding everything very well. If you are compounding Nicrosil then you are simply generating Investiture exponentially? of the type it has been stored?

That's interesting. Now what I'm wondering is, do you store the Investiture but the capacity to use it has to be stored separately? Or is it assumed that since you can save it, you already have the capacity?

All compounding generates exponential investiture, that's what makes it compounding, nicrosil, if it can store raw investiture, would probably compound the stored stuff yea.

I assume that if it can store both, it needs to be in two different minds, bendalloy can't store in the same, neither can tin.