Possible spore eater interactions?

[Tamriel Wolfsbaine]

I am always thinking about interactions between the arts. On today's menu is the spore eater. Ulaam says that they are incapable of rational thought and that it is always fatal. What are some ways you think that one could extend their life if they were inflicted by it?  

The most painfully obvious option, as in the case of everything Aether related in my opinion is bendalloy compounding. While bendalloy is expensive and it will likely get to where you can't give the aether enough even through that method, how long do you think one could last?  Years, decades, longer?  In this case you simply compound enough water to keep it satiated.  

What about connection manipulation. The idea of it being rabid and insatiable, incapable of rational thought... do you think connection play though anymeans could allow a person to reason with the aether? 

Same line of thinking, what about emotional allomancy? 

Healing is the next line of thought. I sort of think that it could work like a less effective water source as found in bendalloy compounding. Simply healing the effects of dehydration and offering it the ability to feed off of that. 

OR... would healing simply heal the spore out of you like healing a parasite?  

Along those same lines, what about abilities that make it so you can't get sick?  Like 5th+ heightening and Elantrian? Would you simply never be able to become a spore eater?  What of someone at the 4th heightening?  Gaining large effects but it bot being perfected until later?  

Maybe you would not be able to tell you were thirsty until the aether drank straight from the biochromatic breaths first?  

Perhaps combining some of these could offer a nearly full life and beyond... a bendalloy compounder who can supplement a thousand breaths along the way as well?  

 

In the end it is probably much safer to be an aetherbound as opposed to a spore eater. I like the automatic defense system that spore eaters have though.  Maybe a seasoned aetherbound could experience similar benefits of automatically being protected by their primal aether? 

[The Stick]

Theoretically, by a theory I have, if a Bondsmith Connected a Spore Eater to an ocean or big lake like Ishar connected the Windrunners to the ground in RoW, the aethers would likely just draw on that.

[Trusk'our he/him]

1 hour ago, Tamriel Wolfsbaine said:

The most painfully obvious option, as in the case of everything Aether related in my opinion is bendalloy compounding. While bendalloy is expensive and it will likely get to where you can't give the aether enough even through that method, how long do you think one could last?  Years, decades, longer?  In this case you simply compound enough water to keep it satiated.  

Might not even need to Compound. Just drink lots of water at a given time to Tap later.

You might even be able for force feed yourself liquids more quickly by using a high powered hose that pipes water directly into your stomach, which you immediately Store to prevent from bursting.

[Treamayne]

3 hours ago, Trusk'our said:

You might even be able for force feed yourself liquids more quickly by using a high powered hose that pipes water directly into your stomach, which you immediately Store to prevent from bursting.

I think this makes an assumption that undigested water in the stomach would be available, but that does not fit with the rest of what we have seen (not saying it is not possible, just not consistent). A sand master can't draw on water to master sand as soon as it hits their gut - the bond draws from their body's hydration (the whole body, which is why Vitreous fluid in the eyes is the first sign of overmastery - the eye is far more sensitive to fluid levels than any other organ in the body). Also, Lift has to start metabolizing what she eats to convert to it Lifelight (signifcantly faster than real digestion - so it can't require the entire digestive track - but also not instantaneous). 

WoR I-9:

Spoiler

She met his gaze, eye to eye, a half-eaten roll in her mouth. She stared him down, chewing quickly and swallowing.

For once, he showed an emotion. Bafflement. “All that,” he said, “for a roll?”

Lift said nothing.

Come on . . .

They walked her down the hallway, then around the corner. One of the minions ran ahead and purposefully removed the spheres from the lamps on the walls. Were they robbing the place? No, after she passed, the minion ran back and restored the spheres.

Come on . . .

They passed a palace guard in the larger hallway beyond. He noted something about Darkness—perhaps that rope tied around his upper arm, which was threaded with an Azish sequence of colors—and saluted. “Constable, sir? You found another one?”

Darkness stopped, looking as the guard opened the door beside him. Inside, Gawx sat on a chair, slumped between two other guards.

“So you did have accomplices!” shouted one of the guards in the room. He slapped Gawx across the face.

Wyndle gasped from just behind her. “That was certainly uncalled for!”

Come on . . .

“This one is not your concern,” Darkness said to the guards, waiting as one of his minions did the strange gemstone-moving sequence. Why did they worry about that?

Something stirred inside of Lift. Like the little swirls of wind at the advent of a storm.

Darkness looked at her with a sharp motion. “Something is—”

Awesomeness returned.

Lift became Slick

It seems fast because of how few sentences are used, but at each junction they are waiiting the chandeliers to be raised and/or lowered, plus walking at least two hallways. Likely 5-10 minutes, maybe? Either way, I expect when we get to Era 3, we'll find that F-Bendalloy stores and taps Nutrition and Hydration, not simply food or water as you eat and drink it. Withdrawing the moisture and nutrients from your cells when storing, and returning them in-kind when Tapped.  

Edited May 24 by Treamayne
SPAG

[Tamriel Wolfsbaine]

1 hour ago, Treamayne said:

I think this makes an assumption that undigested water in the stomach would be available, but that does not fit with the rest of what we have seen (not saying it is not possible, just not consistent). A sand master can't draw on water to master sand as soon as it hits their gut - the bond draws from their body's hydration (the whole body, which is why Vitreous fluid in the eyes is the first sign of overmastery - the eye is far more sensitive to fluid levels than any other organ in the body). Also, Lift has to start metabolizing what she eats to convert to it Lifelight (signifcantly faster than real digestion - so it can't require the entire digestive track - but also not instantaneous). 

WoR I-9:

  Hide contents

She met his gaze, eye to eye, a half-eaten roll in her mouth. She stared him down, chewing quickly and swallowing.

For once, he showed an emotion. Bafflement. “All that,” he said, “for a roll?”

Lift said nothing.

Come on . . .

They walked her down the hallway, then around the corner. One of the minions ran ahead and purposefully removed the spheres from the lamps on the walls. Were they robbing the place? No, after she passed, the minion ran back and restored the spheres.

Come on . . .

They passed a palace guard in the larger hallway beyond. He noted something about Darkness—perhaps that rope tied around his upper arm, which was threaded with an Azish sequence of colors—and saluted. “Constable, sir? You found another one?”

Darkness stopped, looking as the guard opened the door beside him. Inside, Gawx sat on a chair, slumped between two other guards.

“So you did have accomplices!” shouted one of the guards in the room. He slapped Gawx across the face.

Wyndle gasped from just behind her. “That was certainly uncalled for!”

Come on . . .

“This one is not your concern,” Darkness said to the guards, waiting as one of his minions did the strange gemstone-moving sequence. Why did they worry about that?

Something stirred inside of Lift. Like the little swirls of wind at the advent of a storm.

Darkness looked at her with a sharp motion. “Something is—”

Awesomeness returned.

Lift became Slick

It seems fast because of how few sentences are used, but at each junction they are waiiting the chandeliers to be raised and/or lowered, plus walking at least two hallways. Likely 5-10 minutes, maybe? Either way, I expect when we get to Era 3, we'll find that F-Bendalloy stores and taps Nutrition and Hydration, not simply food or water as you eat and drink it. Withdrawing the moisture and nutrients from your cells when storing, and returning them in-kind when Tapped.  

Personally I like this explanation more. But then it make me wonder what of electrolytes? A camelbak filled with water would only do so much for hydration. The electrolytes that build it up would be a balance that is much harder to play with for aether. Also perhaps Aethers work differently given they are a totally different mechanism seperate from the shards and Adonalsium themselves?  

Lift and Sand mastery seem really close but both are derived from Shards of the same one god. If the Aethers truly are older than the shattering their mechanisms may be copied by certain shards on the surface but be different beneath. 

Either way I am sure "investiture fills in the gaps" is the answer to any inconsistencies with physiology. My same gripe with what exactly cadmium is doing as there is literally too much going on in the body to simplify to just oxygenation blood cells. Investiture fixing the difference is the only answer.  

Plus we are seeing that feruchemy has a lot more than meets the eye for a few metals. While storing hydration from the cells could be one answer... simply storing the fuel to hydrate and then investiture filling the gaps of all of the physiological changes needed to turn water usable could be something else.  

Twinsoul's camelbak could be argued either way... just needing to slowly refuel as he is going. I always envisioned it as a quick battery source that he could use so he didn't have to suffer from the dehydration more.  

I would say so much of the water we drink gets wasted and not used in hydrating ourselves that a bendalloy ferring becomes even stronger than I first thought.... a metalmind of a genuine weeks worth of hydration could be thousands of pounds worth of water consumption stored in an earring. 

Perhaps keeping oneself artificially dehydrated more via storing would supercharge the bodies efforts in rehydration from the salts and water that they consume.  I would say that the camelbak should be mixed with snake juice (water and a selection of salts and other electrolytes). 

Bendalloy for hydration would do so much better once era 3 and 4 come around and the understanding of cellular physiology. Then maximizing efforts to ingest the correct buildingblocks for hydration will become more important. 

A long living spore eater would be a fun character to explore in my opinion. Balancing the efforts to longevity vs quality of life would be an interesting story for my tasted. Probably dreadfully boring to the vast majority of consumers though :(.  I will settle for more aetherbound action as well. They will probably show us more of what the aethers are capable of anyway. 

 

[Treamayne]

5 hours ago, Tamriel Wolfsbaine said:

A camelbak filled with water would only do so much for hydration. The electrolytes that build it up would be a balance that is much harder to play with for aether.

Also, please keep in mind that not all dehydration is the same. Dehydrating in a Polar environment (more water, less salts) is very different from a Tropical environment (more salts, less water). If Luhel Bonds are only targeting the water, then a possible  "imbalance" issue may swing the other way (too many electrolytes for the amount of water in the cell) and rather than risking hyponatremia ("water toxicity" that's really not-enough-salts and electrolytes in the blood by water volume [1]) upon trying to restore water without electrolyte correction - plain water may be required to dilute the over-concentrated electrolytes (hypernatraemia) developed from Aether-dehydration. 

 

[1]: We learned a lot about this after a recruit died in Air Force Basic Training to Hyponatraemia - he had been drinking all the required water for PT, but none of the salts. A friend (after the fact, I met him 2 yrs later) had been a med tech on base when it happened and told me the recruit acually died on the operating table 7 times as different organs failed - they were able to resusicate six times. .  .

[Tamriel Wolfsbaine]

3 hours ago, Treamayne said:

Also, please keep in mind that not all dehydration is the same. Dehydrating in a Polar environment (more water, less salts) is very different from a Tropical environment (more salts, less water). If Luhel Bonds are only targeting the water, then a possible  "imbalance" issue may swing the other way (too many electrolytes for the amount of water in the cell) and rather than risking hyponatremia ("water toxicity" that's really not-enough-salts and electrolytes in the blood by water volume [1]) upon trying to restore water without electrolyte correction - plain water may be required to dilute the over-concentrated electrolytes (hypernatraemia) developed from Aether-dehydration. 

 

[1]: We learned a lot about this after a recruit died in Air Force Basic Training to Hyponatraemia - he had been drinking all the required water for PT, but none of the salts. A friend (after the fact, I met him 2 yrs later) had been a med tech on base when it happened and told me the recruit acually died on the operating table 7 times as different organs failed - they were able to resusicate six times. .  .

Precisely. The easiest answer is "investiture makes up for it", but I think that it would be a fun thing to read personally. There was no mention of salts that I am aware of from Twinsoul. Although it was all written from Marasi pov so we may not see it. 

I thought that the smartest take on any episode of ALONE was the 10lb salt rock. Straight up that would be my #1 pick. You are going to lose salts eventually one way or another... either you will sweat them out or pee them out. 

And its not just sodium that you have to worry about. Magnesium and potassium imbalances will off you just as quickly, although they are a lot trickier to solve via oral intake and don't flush out quite as easily either. I had an interesting discussion with the doc I was was working with recently about the challenges of potassium imbalances. Just because the electrolyte panel comes back saying its high doesn't necessarily mean it where you want it. When someone goes down it can shift out of the cells and get carried around the blood stream which makes it read high but at a cellular level it is low and the gradient is off. If you pee it off you actually end up with a hypokalemia instead of the hyperkalemia it appeared to be at the initial labs. 

When I do fasts beyond a day it becomes a daily listening to my body and adjusting the salts. Just water... I will feel like garbage in a day. Start with a bit of salt with the water and things go well for longer. Eventually the charlie horses happen and then its time for some nosalt (potassium) and a pinch of Epsom salt (magnesium).  

But investiture protecting its user can handwave all of the little nuances away. Giving us essentially the idea that water ingestion alone can do it. In which case why add the time constraint and not just say that they are strictly going after the H2O. You could play around with the "hyper(insert electrolyte here)" syndromes as side effects. Simplifying it to eyes being sunken in is neat for a visual. What would actually happen to your body is muscle spasms and twitches as well as cardiac arrhythmias. Maybe not as fun to read about someone riding sand ribbons who gets a gnarly charlie horse mid scene... 

I think it would be really cool if a bendalloy ferring who understood all the nuances of hydration were able to leverage them to become more efficient at storing. 

Which all brings me to the investiture handwaving again. The time constraint from water ingestion to usability will hopefully be explored in some other books. I think the Lift example is solid however, the spores on Lumar react quickly and violently to strictly water in every form. A drop of water or spit or blood should all work about the same (I don't know if any body being torn to bits bleeding everywhere in one of the seas sets off a mini bomb of spores but if spit works then blood should work too I think.)  Why wouldn't they just draw it in as you ingest it?  

 

 

[Quantus he/him]

14 minutes ago, Tamriel Wolfsbaine said:

Precisely. The easiest answer is "investiture makes up for it", but I think that it would be a fun thing to read personally. There was no mention of salts that I am aware of from Twinsoul. Although it was all written from Marasi pov so we may not see it. 

I thought that the smartest take on any episode of ALONE was the 10lb salt rock. Straight up that would be my #1 pick. You are going to lose salts eventually one way or another... either you will sweat them out or pee them out. 

And its not just sodium that you have to worry about. Magnesium and potassium imbalances will off you just as quickly, although they are a lot trickier to solve via oral intake and don't flush out quite as easily either. I had an interesting discussion with the doc I was was working with recently about the challenges of potassium imbalances. Just because the electrolyte panel comes back saying its high doesn't necessarily mean it where you want it. When someone goes down it can shift out of the cells and get carried around the blood stream which makes it read high but at a cellular level it is low and the gradient is off. If you pee it off you actually end up with a hypokalemia instead of the hyperkalemia it appeared to be at the initial labs. 

When I do fasts beyond a day it becomes a daily listening to my body and adjusting the salts. Just water... I will feel like garbage in a day. Start with a bit of salt with the water and things go well for longer. Eventually the charlie horses happen and then its time for some nosalt (potassium) and a pinch of Epsom salt (magnesium).  

But investiture protecting its user can handwave all of the little nuances away. Giving us essentially the idea that water ingestion alone can do it. In which case why add the time constraint and not just say that they are strictly going after the H2O. You could play around with the "hyper(insert electrolyte here)" syndromes as side effects. Simplifying it to eyes being sunken in is neat for a visual. What would actually happen to your body is muscle spasms and twitches as well as cardiac arrhythmias. Maybe not as fun to read about someone riding sand ribbons who gets a gnarly charlie horse mid scene... 

I think it would be really cool if a bendalloy ferring who understood all the nuances of hydration were able to leverage them to become more efficient at storing. 

Which all brings me to the investiture handwaving again. The time constraint from water ingestion to usability will hopefully be explored in some other books. I think the Lift example is solid however, the spores on Lumar react quickly and violently to strictly water in every form. A drop of water or spit or blood should all work about the same (I don't know if any body being torn to bits bleeding everywhere in one of the seas sets off a mini bomb of spores but if spit works then blood should work too I think.)  Why wouldn't they just draw it in as you ingest it?  

 

 

Im not sure Im following the Electrolyte argument, unless you are just saying it'll be a non-typical consequence of Aether-based dehydration since the water isnt carrying anything else out of the body as it would with normal processes?  A skilled enough Bendalloy Ferrying can store Food, Hydration, and even (eventually) Waste, so Electrolytes both Coming and Going should theoretically be within their power to store/regulate.  By the time the space age rolls around I would not be suprised to see specific vitamins, drugs, and maybe things like plasma or platelets stored in Bendalloy metalminds.

Fwiw, WOB does say what Lift does is metabolizing Sugars into Investiture, which I think implies it's at least a little reliant on the Some Digestive process but not necessarily the actual mundane one.  

 

 

Quote

 

Argent

Does Lift turn food into Investiture directly or is it similar to the metals on--

Brandon Sanderson

Similar to the metals.

Argent

So like a gate?

Brandon Sanderson

Yes.

Argent

Okay, that's good to know.

Brandon Sanderson

She can metabolize-- She can draw-- It's not actually the food, it's-- It's not like the metals, not exactly. It's not-- What she can do is she can metabolize into Investiture instead of sugar. Does that make sense?

Argent

Yeah.

Brandon Sanderson

We metabolize food into sugar. She can metabolize it into Investiture. Does that make sense?

Argent

That makes a lot of sense. So if she eats--

Brandon Sanderson

She's got to have a blood sugar spike.

Argent

So if she eats like a cake it will give her more Investiture--

Brandon Sanderson

Faster. It will give her faster.

Argent

Whereas if she eats a vegetable...

Brandon Sanderson

Vegetable... More calories is going to equal more. But the better comparison would be a sausage and bread. Because bread is a fast blood sugar spike and the sausage is not. And that's how I'm working in my head. It's kind of a magical version of a blood sugar spike and I have it happen to her faster than it could happen. Like normally you eat a piece of bread and your blood sugar spikes in a half hour, it's going to go faster for Lift.

Argent

Hers is like five minutes.

Brandon Sanderson

Hers is like five minutes, but a sausage would be slower.

Firefight Chicago signing (Feb. 20, 2015)

 

 

[Treamayne]

8 minutes ago, Quantus said:

A skilled enough Bendalloy Ferrying can store Food, Hydration, and even (eventually) Waste,

Can you please source the "storing waste", because the only thing I know of as confirmed is that tapping Bendalloy does not produce waste (since you are getting nutrition directly, instead of digesting matter to extract the nutrients and calories). 

1 hour ago, Tamriel Wolfsbaine said:

Why wouldn't they just draw it in as you ingest it? 

That's my point. I'm not saying they do not or cannot . . . 

. . . I am simply observing that if the Aether bond is a Luhel bond, and Sand Mastery is a Luhel Bond (unconfirmed but very likely); then drawing water directly without metabolizing it first would be inconsistent with current known facts. It's is also possible that there is a difference between a normal Spore-Luhel Bond and the version used by the Spore Eaters. Not yet enough information to know one way or the other, just trying to help conversation by mentioning my observations:

• The version seen on-screen in White Sand is drawing hydration from the entire body, not recently ingested water (Ref Kenton trying to recover from Mastering at Trell's construction project - slow slips of water over minutes while resting until he begins to feel rehydrated. 
• The version seen with Cpt Crow in Tress was "drinking water often to keep her hydration balanced. However, since we do not get a dehydration scene for her, nor do we get a viewpoint for her - so we can't know if is drinking so much at once so that
  • it metabolizes over time (feeding the bond slowly by front-loading ingestion) - or -
  • if the bond is taking it directly from ingestion (which does not seem to fit the sip often, guzzle periodically behaviour - unless the bond's needs and rate of consuming hydration are in flux for other factors)

[Quantus he/him]

1 minute ago, Treamayne said:

Can you please source the "storing waste", because the only thing I know of as confirmed is that tapping Bendalloy does not produce waste (since you are getting nutrition directly, instead of digesting matter to extract the nutrients and calories). 

Here you go. The "Not Yet" makes me think it'll be possible in future era's but is not with their current methods and/or understanding.  But it would be such a critical piece of any spaceship life support (just like Air or Food or Water) that I suspect it's included in the long-term design for that purpose.

 

 

Quote

 

angwilwileth

Since there's a Feruchemical metal that stores calories, is there one that stores the need to eliminate waste?

Brandon Sanderson

Not yet.

/r/books AMA 2015 (July 30, 2015)

 

 

 

1 minute ago, Treamayne said:

That's my point. I'm not saying they do not or cannot . . . 

. . . I am simply observing that if the Aether bond is a Luhel bond, and Sand Mastery is a Luhel Bond (unconfirmed but very likely); then drawing water directly without metabolizing it first would be inconsistent with current known facts. It's is also possible that there is a difference between a normal Spore-Luhel Bond and the version used by the Spore Eaters. Not yet enough information to know one way or the other, just trying to help conversation by mentioning my observations:

• The version seen on-screen in White Sand is drawing hydration from the entire body, not recently ingested water (Ref Kenton trying to recover from Mastering at Trell's construction project - slow slips of water over minutes while resting until he begins to feel rehydrated. 
• The version seen with Cpt Crow in Tress was "drinking water often to keep her hydration balanced. However, since we do not get a dehydration scene for her, nor do we get a viewpoint for her - so we can't know if is drinking so much at once so that
  • it metabolizes over time (feeding the bond slowly by front-loading ingestion) - or -
  • if the bond is taking it directly from ingestion (which does not seem to fit the sip often, guzzle periodically behaviour - unless the bond's needs and rate of consuming hydration are in flux for other factors)

That feels off but I think it might lead us somewhere:  Unlike food, Water doesnt get Metabolized in any meaningful way (other than when it's produced by breaking down fat, etc), it just gets Absorbed from tissues to blood to organs, etc.  If you are thirsty enough you can absorb water through the mouth or even skin and not need to swallow anything.  So a delay before being able to acces the hydration (which seems supported by the scenes you mention) implies the water needs to reach either a minimum overall threshold or else it needs to reach a specific place in the body.  In other magic systems we've seen Skin Contact, Eating/Internalization, and Blood Contact all be separate thresholds to access a magic; so a Delay after swallowing might imply it needs to reach the bloodstream specifically.  That in turn might imply the Luhel mechanism requires a more specific Spiritweb or Spiritual Realm interaction like Hemalurgy does.  

 

OR, and this is more a devils advocate statement, both those instances might have been them trying to let their bodies and tissues recover and spend time properly Hydrated before health issues arise, the same way Lift really needs to stop using her Awesome so much that he stays perpetually malnourished.  

[Treamayne]

3 minutes ago, Quantus said:

The "Not Yet" makes me think it'll be possible in future era's but is not with their current methods and/or understanding.  But it would be such a critical piece of any spaceship life support (just like Air or Food or Water) that I suspect it's included in the long-term design for that purpose.

Spoiler

angwilwileth

Since there's a Feruchemical metal that stores calories, is there one that stores the need to eliminate waste?

Brandon Sanderson

Not yet.

/r/books AMA 2015 (July 30, 2015)

 

Thank you. Though, I would like to note that the WoB says "store the need to eliminate waste" which may or may not imply actually storing the waste. Tangential thought:

Spoiler

. . . and how would that even work? Store to become constipated, tap to have diarrhea?

 

6 minutes ago, Quantus said:

Unlike food, Water doesnt get Metabolized in any meaningful way (other than when it's produced by breaking down fat, etc), it just gets Absorbed from tissues to blood to organs, etc.  If you are thirsty enough you can absorb water through the mouth or even skin and not need to swallow anything. 

True and sorry. I shorthanded it to "metabolize" because it is easier to write (and grok) than a full statement of "ingest the liquids to be absorbed into the body's hydration mechanism." I understand it is not the same as true metabolic processes on food, I was just being lazy. 

 

9 minutes ago, Quantus said:

implies the water needs to reach either a minimum overall threshold or else it needs to reach a specific place in the body. 

It could also be that instead of a specific place in the body, it's in a form usable by the body. A liter of water does nothing to help your hydration just sitting in your gut - until the body has processed it (which is why drinking slowly is so important, so the water is not eliminated as waste before absorbtion)

[Quantus he/him]

30 minutes ago, Treamayne said:

Thank you. Though, I would like to note that the WoB says "store the need to eliminate waste" which may or may not imply actually storing the waste. Tangential thought:

  Hide contents

. . . and how would that even work? Store to become constipated, tap to have diarrhea?

Fair Point, Id assumed it was storing what is in you, where Storing is a Matter-to-Investiture conversion and Tapping it is an Investiture-to-matter restoration. So in theory you'd store the Poop itself and deflate your bowel, and Tapping might literally swell your abdomen so you'd only want to do slowing and/or it in safe locations. 

At least that's how I think it would work if we assume it's Bendalloy and operates the way Food and Hydration do.  Im starting the think the reason Food&water work with Bendnalloy but Cadmium does Breath is that they intersect in fundamentally different ways.  Bendalloy is more about a direct In&Out matter conversion as described above, so maybe Cadmium is interacting directly with the biological process to let it be maintained internally?  Not sure that fits either and the whole nature of Breathing is technically a process of stripping Carbon from CO2 molecules, but Tapping still allowing you to hyper-oxygenate your bloodstream.  \  

Side Note: If Tin can Store the Sense of Pain, it almost certainly could store a Sense of Fullness and also by extension the Sensation part of needing to void waste.  Granted that would just let you feel fine while you starved and feel confident right up to the point you messed your pants...

 

30 minutes ago, Treamayne said:

True and sorry. I shorthanded it to "metabolize" because it is easier to write (and grok) than a full statement of "ingest the liquids to be absorbed into the body's hydration mechanism." I understand it is not the same as true metabolic processes on food, I was just being lazy. 

 

It could also be that instead of a specific place in the body, it's in a form usable by the body. A liter of water does nothing to help your hydration just sitting in your gut - until the body has processed it (which is why drinking slowly is so important, so the water is not eliminated as waste before absorbtion)

That's my point:  H20 has no specific transformative step in biology, there are no "Forms of Water" that the body creates, at least none that still count as Hydration and not just generating new tissues (fat cells, etc).  At best it's location-based concentrations, organs, tissues, and/or blood stream. It's not like food where the body takes it and chemically alters it into sugars or protein or whatever.  So if the magic cant access it from the gut (the way metals can for allomancy) then that implies it needs to find a deeper location before it can be used.  Whether that turns out to be the Bloodstream or actual/individual Cell Absorption or maybe even a specific organ, I think it'll provide some key insight into how the magic is accomplishing it realmically.  

[Tamriel Wolfsbaine]

2 hours ago, Quantus said:

Fair Point, Id assumed it was storing what is in you, where Storing is a Matter-to-Investiture conversion and Tapping it is an Investiture-to-matter restoration. So in theory you'd store the Poop itself and deflate your bowel, and Tapping might literally swell your abdomen so you'd only want to do slowing and/or it in safe locations. 

At least that's how I think it would work if we assume it's Bendalloy and operates the way Food and Hydration do.  Im starting the think the reason Food&water work with Bendnalloy but Cadmium does Breath is that they intersect in fundamentally different ways.  Bendalloy is more about a direct In&Out matter conversion as described above, so maybe Cadmium is interacting directly with the biological process to let it be maintained internally?  Not sure that fits either and the whole nature of Breathing is technically a process of stripping Carbon from CO2 molecules, but Tapping still allowing you to hyper-oxygenate your bloodstream.  \  

Side Note: If Tin can Store the Sense of Pain, it almost certainly could store a Sense of Fullness and also by extension the Sensation part of needing to void waste.  Granted that would just let you feel fine while you starved and feel confident right up to the point you messed your pants...

 

That's my point:  H20 has no specific transformative step in biology, there are no "Forms of Water" that the body creates, at least none that still count as Hydration and not just generating new tissues (fat cells, etc).  At best it's location-based concentrations, organs, tissues, and/or blood stream. It's not like food where the body takes it and chemically alters it into sugars or protein or whatever.  So if the magic cant access it from the gut (the way metals can for allomancy) then that implies it needs to find a deeper location before it can be used.  Whether that turns out to be the Bloodstream or actual/individual Cell Absorption or maybe even a specific organ, I think it'll provide some key insight into how the magic is accomplishing it realmically.  

I think that is a holdup I have as well. Water from bendalloy seems really efficient to use bendalloy for. Drink more store more. If it is only storing the hydration being the building blocks of all electrolyte balance and is being pulled from cells and the blood itself, wouldn't being a gold compounder far outweigh the bendalloy for aether uses?  

[Quantus he/him]

25 minutes ago, Tamriel Wolfsbaine said:

I think that is a holdup I have as well. Water from bendalloy seems really efficient to use bendalloy for. Drink more store more. If it is only storing the hydration being the building blocks of all electrolyte balance and is being pulled from cells and the blood itself, wouldn't being a gold compounder far outweigh the bendalloy for aether uses?  

Maybe, in the same way enough Gold does technically make storing Breath In Cadmium moot since you can heal the O2 deprivation, though that method certainly hurts more.  But Gold is supposed to take an awful lot to heal major losses, so Im willing to bet the quantitative Investiture math will show the bendalloy method is equally or more efficient than manufacturing new blood with Gold.  The way Investiture seems to scale with Life toward Sapience makes me think Blood takes more than water in general, if we're lucky we'll see a comparison example from Soulcasting, since the Radiants can measure their use in gems a little more directly than most (and are thinking about it scientifically now).

Edited May 24 by Quantus

[Atlas333]

Silver could potentially help, although I imagine it's more complicated than just ingesting silver. Maybe there's a way to ingest a small amount of silver to add a few years to your lifespan?

Quote

Argent

Can silver help a spore eater with their condition?

Brandon Sanderson

Yeah, it can stab them through the heart with a silver knife so they die. Much better ending. There is potentially an application of silver that could maybe help them, it would not be my first go to. Silver can be pretty destructive.

Shardcast Interview (July 30, 2023)