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Potential ways the Surge of Transportation can be used


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Okay I was thinking about the surge of Transportation the other day and I have always thought there has to be more ways to use it than just going to the cognitive realm. It just seems so limited to only be able to do one thing when other surges can do multiple, like providing flight, soulcasting, and healing/plant magic. 

 I have one possible application, let me know how likely it is. 

So what if a Radiant with the surge of transportation could teleport to wherever their shardblade/spren is? If you threw it across the battlefied or hidden it somewhere you could teleport to it. Kind of like a reverse of summoning a shardblade. 

I think it could be possible to somehow use the Connection between a radiant and their spren to change where you would pop out of in the physical realm. There could be limits like the distance or only radiants of X ideal could do so but I think it would be a cool application. 

As for evidence the only thing I can think of is we see that Deadeye's try to follow the general location of whoever holds their shard, which is done through a connection of some kind. I also found this on the coppermind wiki 

"The Shadesmar location of a deadeye relative to the Physical location of its Shardbearer does have a minuscule impact on the speed at which the Blade is summoned. It seems that to become a Shardblade, the deadeye travels to the desired location at the speed of light, or something approaching it."

Thoughts? 

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On 5/12/2024 at 1:02 PM, Elite01 said:

I was thinking about the surge of Transportation the other day and I have always thought there has to be more ways to use it than just going to the cognitive realm.

We have not seen much on this surge yet, but we have already seen applications beyond transitioning to the Cognitive Realm. The Pursuer is using the Surge af Transportation in RoW. The Oathgates also use an application of the Surge of Transportation for their function (but we do not yet know how a Radiant could implement that).

Tangentially, we know that the refugees moved from Ashyn to Roshar through some method using the same principals, and so closely related that Rosharans would term their method "Elsecalling"

WoB:

Spoiler

<Edited for length and relevance>

Brandon Sanderson

So one other thing to keep aware of in the cosmere - for instance they call "Lightweaving" any illusion-based magic working on the same fundamentals. And so you could argue - and people will use it that way in-world - that Bondsmithing is both an order [of Knights Radiant] and a power that exists outside the order.

Argent

And that would be maybe the power of Connection, the way Lightweaving is the power of illusion?

Brandon Sanderson

Yes. And for instance, there were not Elsecallers to get people between Ashyn and Roshar, but on Roshar they would explain what happened there as Elsecalling. Does that make sense?

JordanCon 2021 (July 17, 2021)

Part of it will likely be what applications are re-interpreted/restricted by the nature of the Nahel Bond. 

Elantris Spoilers:

Spoiler

Aon Tia also functions on the same principal as the Surge of Transportation, so a Radiant may potentially be able to use some of those Applications. 

 

Edited by Treamayne
SPAG/Clarity
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I love the idea of using the Surge to go to where your Shardblade is. I can imagine so many awesome uses of that in battle -- but it would be constrained by needing Transport to Shadesmar in a safe way (e.g. planning ahead of time where you want to throw your Shard and leaving a boat there). But that's what's great about Sanderson's magic systems: great powers are balanced by the need for careful planning.

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Cool idea, and could be a parallel to how the pursuer's teleportations can be tracked before they reappear. I don't Brandon would include a common power like teleportation without giving it some unique rules.

I've always wondered if there was a way for else caller to phase through walls or something similar. The thought comes from a Jasnah pov chapter after she escapes from the ship. 

Quote

Though she could peek into Shadesmar on her own - even slip on foot in, so to speak - entering fully required Ivory's help.  

https://reactormag.com/stormlight-archive-scene-after-words-of-radiance/

 Here, "one foot in" seems to be a different ability from seeing into the cognitive realm. It could potentially be like how spren are kind of ephemeral and can only slightly affect the physical realm but in reverse. Unfortunately, Jashah seems to rely more on soulcasting than she does elsecalling, so we don't have more information to go on.

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3 hours ago, Atlas333 said:
Quote

Though she could peek into Shadesmar on her own - even slip on foot in, so to speak - entering fully required Ivory's help.  

WoR Deleted Scene

 Here, "one foot in" seems to be a different ability from seeing into the cognitive realm. It could potentially be like how spren are kind of ephemeral and can only slightly affect the physical realm but in reverse. Unfortunately, Jashah seems to rely more on soulcasting than she does elsecalling, so we don't have more information to go on.

Actually, the "one foot in" is probably the "peeking into Cognitive" - as also seen in the WoR Prologue, Shallan's WoK Soulcasting, and Venli's time at Leshwi's tower (RoW). But, also keep in mind that this is "unreliable narrator" and Jasnah's POV, when we know that some orders of Radiant Spren withhold all or parts of a Surge until you reach the correct Oath (ref: Skybreakers and Division) - so it also seems to be a reference that Elsecallers do not have full access to the Surge of Transportation until some specific unknown Oath. Here's the WoB on this scene, and scene spoilers:

Spoiler

Questioner 1

How was Jasnah able to teleport into the [Cognitive] Realm when she didn't seem to have any Stormlight in her in Words of Radiance?

Brandon Sanderson

She had enough.

Questioner 1

She had enough. 

Brandon Sanderson

Yeah.

Questioner 1

And is it just teleportation-- *interrupted*

Brandon Sanderson

Let's say... Jasnah's figured out some things that others haven't figured out, for one thing. *brief interruption* And, let's say that. But also, there's a little scene from it I wrote from her viewpoint just to know what was happening that's never going in the books. If you Google "Jasnah deleted scene Words of Radiance" you can read it. It talks about how she did what she did.

Questioner 2

Oh good.

Brandon Sanderson

So that is out there. Just-- It was my reference for writing the scene. But-- One of her powers is called Elsecalling, which is basically popping in and out of Shadesmar more easily. It's hard for everyone else to do that.

Questioner 2

My other question is, so when Shallan was on the land she was in the sea in Shadesmar.

Brandon Sanderson

Yes.

Questioner 2

Is it exactly opposite?

Brandon Sanderson

Yeah, it's mirrored... Um... It's mirrored, yeah.

Questioner 2

So any land is on sea. So she would have actually landed on land on the ocean.

Brandon Sanderson

Yeah... so... yes...

Questioner 1

She kind of *inaudible*

Questioner 2

Well that's, no for Jasnah that's... *interrupted*

Brandon Sanderson

Oh yeah yeah, Jasnah... In that scene where you see? She pops out in Shadesmar on the land.

Questioner 2

So, was the scene at the end right as soon as that happened?

Brandon Sanderson

What the-- no, no, no. She spent months trying to get back out.

Questioner 2

Oh, because she doesn't have the power to get back out.

Brandon Sanderson

Much harder to get back out.

Questioner 1

*inaudible* trying to get back out, because she doesn't have any more Stormlight.

Brandon Sanderson

Yep. Much harder to get back out than it is to get back in even if you have Stormlight, and she is out of Stormlight, so...

Footnote: Questioner mistakenly said "Spiritual Realm" in the first line.
White Sand vol.1 release party (June 28, 2016)

Deleted Scene:

Quote

Jasnah froze. “They’re being executed. Ivory! The junction.”

A junction is not, Jasnah,” Ivory repeated. He stood with hands clasped behind his back, wearing a sharp—yet somehow alien—suit, all black. Here in Shadesmar, it was easier to distinguish the mother-of-pearl sheen to his skin, like the colors made by oil on water.

“Not?” Jasnah said, trying to parse his meaning. She’d missed his explanation the first time. Despite their years together, his language constructions still baffled her on occasion. “But there’s always a junction…”

“Only when a piece of you is there,” Ivory said. “Today, that is not. You are here, Jasnah.”

So, the "one foot in" is when only part of the Radiant is in the Cognitive - forming a Junction to the Physical Shell of the Radiant still in the Physical Realm (and the way to turn perception back to the Physical Realm)

Also, keep in mind that many Elsecallings (such as spoilered examples referenced in my previous post) are not confined to Physical and Cognitive Realms, they use Spiritual Realm shenanigans (where there is no "place") to accomplish what they do - but, at least, the Surge of Transportation is a very imprecise version of this. WoB:

Spoiler
Quote

Questioner

You've said previously that the Oathgates don't obey Physical Realm speed of light. Do they obey the speed of light in Shadesmar? Or are they tapping into the Spiritual Realm shenanigans?

Brandon Sanderson

They're tapping into Spiritual Realm shenanigans. An Elsecaller is capable of creating something that can teleport you faster than the speed of light.

Dragonsteel 2023 (Nov. 21, 2023)

Quote

Questioner

Is Jasnah still alive at the end of the book, since the whole scene where she kind of appears...

Brandon Sanderson

Yes, she is.

Argent

*photo pause* Why does she take so long to come back?

Brandon Sanderson

Because Elsecalling is not precise even if you know what you are doing, which she doesn't.

Words of Radiance Chicago signing (March 22, 2014)

Elantris Spoilers:

Spoiler

Such as Aon Tia used at the climax, where precision comes from using the Aon Modifiers to specify an exact direction and distance (as well as the unit of measure for that distance) 

Elantris Ch 25:

Quote

“Aon Tia?” Raoden asked. “It’s a transportation Aon. Before the Reod, that Aon could move a person from Elantris to the other side of the world. The book mentions it because it was one of the most dangerous Aons.”

“Dangerous?”

“You have to be very precise about the distance it is to send you. If you tell it to transport you exactly ten feet, it will do so—no matter what happens to be ten feet away. You could easily materialize in the middle of a stone wall.”

Elantris Ch 62:

Spoiler

“Seon,” Raoden ordered, “show me the exact direction Teod’s capital is from this point.”

Ashe hovered for a moment, then moved to a spot in front of Raoden, marking a point on the horizon. “If you wanted to sail to Teoras, my lord, you would go in this direction.”

Raoden nodded, trusting the seon’s innate sense of direction. He began to draw. He constructed Aon Tia with frantic hands, his fingers tracing patterns he had learned by rote, never thinking they would do any good.

<snip>

 

Galladon shook his head, laying a hand on Raoden’s shoulder. “Sule, a meaningless attempt won’t prove anything but your stupidity. Do you even know how far it is to Teod?”

<snip>

“One million, fifty-four thousand, four hundred and forty-two,” Adien repeated. “That is how many steps it is to Teoras. Measure my stride, and use half of that as your unit.”

“Hurry, my lord!” Ashe exclaimed with fear. “She’s in danger. Mai—he’s watching the princess now. He says she’s surrounded. Oh, Domi! Hurry!”

“Where, seon!” Raoden snapped, kneeling down and measuring Adien’s stride with a strip of cloth.

“Near the docks, my lord,” Ashe said. “She’s standing on the main road leading to the docks!”

“Adien!” Raoden said, drawing a line in his Aon that was half the length of the boy’s stride.

“One million, fifty-four thousand, four hundred and one,” Adien said. “That will take you to the docks.” He looked up, frowning. “I . . . I’m not sure how I know that. I went there as a child once, but . . .”

It’ll have to be enough, Raoden thought. He reached up and wrote a modifier beside his Aon, telling it to transport him one million, fifty-four thousand, four hundred and one lengths of the line.

 

 

 

Edited by Treamayne
SPAG
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  • 1 month later...

I haven’t reread way is kings in a bit but I thought that was in reference to the oathgates? 

Which is teleporting but between two set locations. So maybe the surge of Teleportation can let anyone teleport to anywhere but Brandon usually prefers set restrictions on powers. So you could do connection like being familiar with the area or person, line of sight or like I mentioned teleporting to a spren/shardblade 

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5 hours ago, Elite01 said:

I haven’t reread way is kings in a bit but I thought that was in reference to the oathgates? 

Actually, the WoK reference was Teft trying to relate the Envisagers' Myths about Radiants (and part of why Kal does not think he is Radiant then):

WoK Ch 59:

Spoiler

“I don’t know anything about using the Stormlight,” Teft said, scowling. “But I know what should happen.”

“According to stories that contradict one another. You’ve told me that the Radiants could fly and walk on walls.”

Teft nodded. “They sure could. And make stone melt by looking at it. And move great distances in a single heartbeat. And command the sunlight. And—”

“And why,” Kaladin said, “would they need to both walk on walls and fly? If they can fly, why would they bother running up walls?”

Teft said nothing.

And why bother with either one,” Kaladin added, “if they can just ‘move great distances in a heartbeat’?”

“I’m not sure,” Teft admitted.

“We can’t trust the stories or legends,” Kaladin said.

 

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On 5/12/2024 at 1:02 PM, Elite01 said:

So what if a Radiant with the surge of transportation could teleport to wherever their shardblade/spren is? If you threw it across the battlefied or hidden it somewhere you could teleport to it. Kind of like a reverse of summoning a shardblade. 

Now I have a slightly disturbing image of a radiant just yeeting their blade across a battlefield

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