The Darkest Timeline: Roshar

[RefusesToElaborate]

What follows is not what I believe will happen in Wind & Truth, here I intend to outline what I believe to be the most likely worst case scenario. The Empire Strikes Back ending for Wind and Truth.  Pooling all my knowledge about The Cosmere and throwing a massive wrench in the works, applying Murphy's Law to Roshar.

I have not read any preview chapters because I'm a big brain Stoneward and have no need to provide a basis for my theories.

Let's start with Odiums loophole.

The terms that I believe are important are laid out as follows:

* Two willing champions selected

* They meet atop Urithuru

* Fight to the death

* Should Dalinars champion win, all Odium-motivated hostility ceases between Singers and Humans, Alethkar and Herdaz are returned to the coalition of Urithiru, and Odium remains bound to Roshar

* Should Odiums' champion win, hostilities still cease, Odium retains his territory, and Dalinar becomes a fused for Odium

A lot of people seem to believe Odiums loophole involves stopping the fight by putting in a champion that the opponent will refuse to kill, or putting an immortal in the ring. I will not argue that this is nog compelling, however it's not Darkest Timeline. In my Darkest Timeline, Odiums loophole is to win and then force Fused Dalinar through such a heinous order that he refuses to do it, violating the contract and thus negating the clause binding him to the Rosharan system.

It is for this reason I believe Odiums champion will be El, an El who swallowed the stone containing Yelig Nar.

Now as for Dalinars champion? I believe it will be Szeth. I believe Dalinar already admits this will not be a simple duel, surges will be important. I believe Szeth will bond four honorblades in Shinovar, then upon opening the Shin oathgate and returning to Urithiru will say he only needs a blade with Tension to have all surges. He will either get Talns blade from wherever Hoid stashed it, or Ishars because Dalinar thinks it would possibly maybe perhaps be wise to disarm an active beligerent with mental health issues but not so unwise to arm an active ally with mental health issues.

And Szeth-Son-Neturo will wear a farmers robe on the day he is to kill a champion because I'm catching a lot of coat of many colours symbolism from Szeth. He will still die, though.

Now, Darkest Timeline for other characters.

Shallan is pretty clearly foreshadowed as a worldhopper. I believe at some point Adolin will die, along with her brothers, probably a Ghostblood attack. This will free her from any kind of responsibility she feels on Roshar and maybe induce a desire to get away from the planet where everything she ever cared about died and find where these Ghostbloods are at. Then she's gonna go hunting. The Cosmere will be a lot more empty when Shallan is done. She'll at least be a problem the Ghostbloods feel a deep need to solve.

Kaladin. Well, what's the most realistic Darkest Timeline for him? He dies? No. Moash will attack Kaladin and Szeth in Shinovar, during this attack Kaladin will swear his final ideal. "I accept that I need to be protected." Moash swings for him with the anti-stormlight dagger, and Syl dives in front of it. She is killed, and Kaladin is proved right that a lighteyes would take his power from him. Szeth manages to kill Moash and then they have a Batman/Superman conversation about how "Wow if my life had been different I would have turned out just like you." This conversation is what inspires Szeth to get all surges from the Hoborblades and volunteer as champion. Kaladin instead serves the Windrunners as a battlefield medic, only feeling useful when his friends are low on stormlight, and has to watch in agony as everyone from Bridge Four takes to the skies without him. Another honorspren will attempt to bond him and he will firmly but politely ask it to leave.

Jasnah doesn't have a lot of personal stakes for the Darkest Timeline. She breaks up with Hoid, I guess. She's already a queen in exile, it can't get much worse for her outside of that.

Renarin, separated from Rlain as he's with the New Listeners. Adolin dead. Dalinar as a Fused. He's left to lead the Kholin Highprincedom, and he's storming awful at it. Boy's not cut out for Alethi politics, he's gentle, his mind tends to wander, and his fashion sense is whack.

The New Listeners and Willshapers, actually kind of looking to them as a little immune to a lot of my Darkest Timeline nonsense. The worst "real" scenario I can see for them is being discovered by one side or another and culturally enriched (read: forcibly assimilated.)

Hoid: Everything is stormed. Just as planned.

And the Darkest Timine for Dalinar.

Upon losing the Contest of Champions, Odium takes him as a Fused. This makes the Stormfather a deadeye, Odiums last "Storm you" to Honour. The consequence of this will be the Highstorm stops moving. Roshar will have an ever-stationary storm like Jupiter. It will be in a place that's near impossible to reach, therefore the Tower will be the only source of Stormlight.

Cultivation will have one of two moods in response to this. "Oh rust." Or "Just as planned." Possibly both.

Odium eventually breaks Dalinar by forcing him to do something. Massacring innocents. Dalinar refuses and Odiums imprisonment on Roshar is broken. He's now free to save the whole cosmere, whether they need it or not. And he'll do this by eliminating all other Shards.

I will now wait patiently for Wind and Truth, to see how Dark the Rimeline is and hope that my Timeline is the Darkest Timeline that conforms to realistically where the series is going 

[Jofwu]

Who hurt you?

[RefusesToElaborate]

2 minutes ago, Jofwu said:

Who hurt you?

I had a house in Rathalas once. 

[The Stick]

The scariest thing is that I think you are probably pretty close to the mark. I do think Moash will murder Syl. The only thing I would disagree on is Szeth getting all the surges, and maybe on El being the champion.

[RefusesToElaborate]

5 hours ago, The Stick said:

The scariest thing is that I think you are probably pretty close to the mark. I do think Moash will murder Syl. The only thing I would disagree on is Szeth getting all the surges, and maybe on El being the champion.

Allow me to justify.

What sounds like a better champion, bondsmith with no shards, or a warrior trained on and armed with all ten surges?

As for El? Eh. It was just a vibe for me. I do think Todium is dumb if he doesn't make his champion swallow Yelig Nar though.

[+Oltux72]

1 hour ago, RefusesToElaborate said:

As for El? Eh. It was just a vibe for me. I do think Todium is dumb if he doesn't make his champion swallow Yelig Nar though.

Provided of course that Yelig-Nar is operational again. We do not know how long he needs to recover between losing hosts. And provided that Taravangian-Odium wants to win. Otherwise the question may be moot or wrong.

It is not certain that he wants the contest to take place. In an ideal world, from his view point the Knights Radiant would break the contract. However, the risk to him is that this is in last consequence not under his control. So he may prefer to avert the contest altogether.

On 4/29/2024 at 12:03 PM, RefusesToElaborate said:

Shallan is pretty clearly foreshadowed as a worldhopper. I believe at some point Adolin will die, along with her brothers, probably a Ghostblood attack.

Let me ask a simple question: Why? What possible gain is large enough to justify the risk to the Ghostbloods?

 

[RefusesToElaborate]

43 minutes ago, Oltux72 said:

Provided of course that Yelig-Nar is operational again. We do not know how long he needs to recover between losing hosts. And provided that Taravangian-Odium wants to win. Otherwise the question may be moot or wrong.

It is not certain that he wants the contest to take place. In an ideal world, from his view point the Knights Radiant would break the contract. However, the risk to him is that this is in last consequence not under his control. So he may prefer to avert the contest altogether.

I should clarify again, this isn't what I 100% believe will happen. This is my attempt at making the Darkest Timeline for Roshar that isn't blatantly "rocks fall, everyone dies." 

I would agree Odium using Yelig Nar as a champion is contingent on Yelig Nar being usable. However we've not seen an on screen death for Yelig Nar, only it's host. And I subscribe to the storytelling rule that if you don't see a body, they're not dead.

43 minutes ago, Oltux72 said:

Let me ask a simple question: Why? What possible gain is large enough to justify the risk to the Ghostbloods?

 

Again, Darkest Timeline.

The Ghostbloods are King Sociopaths Cool Kids Club, for starters. Moreover from their perspective they're standing over these early industrial Rosharans dropping rocks. I would argue it's not much of a risk for them to attack Shallan and her loved ones even now.

In fact, assuming Wind and Truth doesnt skip Shallans trip back to Urithiru, I would assume some kind of attack is made before Shallan is out of Shadesmar.

[+Oltux72]

On 4/29/2024 at 2:39 PM, Jofwu said:

Who hurt you?

Embrace your dark passions! Let Roshar burn to admire the sparks!

But on a more general note, what goes wrong for the Radiant side in Wind and Truth? There is supposed to be a second pentology. The next book cannot resolve all questions.

(Scadrial)

Spoiler

In addition there is Kelsier's observations in The Lost Metal, which need a reason.

The idea that Odium will be set free in the next book makes sense. Or the Blackthorn will be on a roaring rampage as a fusion of Attilla the Hun and Genghis Khan. A conflict is necessary for the second half.

On 4/30/2024 at 1:17 PM, RefusesToElaborate said:

The Ghostbloods are King Sociopaths Cool Kids Club, for starters. Moreover from their perspective they're standing over these early industrial Rosharans dropping rocks. I would argue it's not much of a risk for them to attack Shallan and her loved ones even now.

Yes, but they are not stupid. They are absolutely ready to walk over mountains of corpses to get what they want. But they don't do recreational mountaineering on heaps of corpses. What is in it for them?

On 4/30/2024 at 1:17 PM, RefusesToElaborate said:

In fact, assuming Wind and Truth doesnt skip Shallans trip back to Urithiru, I would assume some kind of attack is made before Shallan is out of Shadesmar.

That is the next thing I do absolutely not understand. Why does everybody assume that they'll want to return quickly? They are in contact with Restares. They finally have opened up communication with the Spren that matter. They have a line of real-time communication with their home base. They are in communication with interstellar visitors. On the other hand, one more fighter and one surgebinder is not going to be of any use in Urithiru. If I were Dalinar, I would order them to stay right where they are. In fact I might send them a supply mission.

Them returning quickly must mean that something utterly unforseen will have happened. Something on the order of Innovation's fleet of war airships pulled by drakes arriving for support. Or they have found Ba-Ado-Mishram. Something.

[RefusesToElaborate]

2 hours ago, Oltux72 said:

Embrace your dark passions! Let Roshar burn to admire the sparks!

But on a more general note, what goes wrong for the Radiant side in Wind and Truth? There is supposed to be a second pentology. The next book cannot resolve all questions.

(Scadrial)

  Hide contents

In addition there is Kelsier's observations in The Lost Metal, which need a reason.

The idea that Odium will be set free in the next book makes sense. Or the Blackthorn will be on a roaring rampage as a fusion of Attilla the Hun and Genghis Khan. A conflict is necessary for the second half.

Yes, but they are not stupid. They are absolutely ready to walk over mountains of corpses to get what they want. But they don't do recreational mountaineering on heaps of corpses. What is in it for them?

That is the next thing I do absolutely not understand. Why does everybody assume that they'll want to return quickly? They are in contact with Restares. They finally have opened up communication with the Spren that matter. They have a line of real-time communication with their home base. They are in communication with interstellar visitors. On the other hand, one more fighter and one surgebinder is not going to be of any use in Urithiru. If I were Dalinar, I would order them to stay right where they are. In fact I might send them a supply mission.

Them returning quickly must mean that something utterly unforseen will have happened. Something on the order of Innovation's fleet of war airships pulled by drakes arriving for support. Or they have found Ba-Ado-Mishram. Something.

Piggybacking off your points about returning to the tower, mostly.

Shallan and Adolins mission is done, they're not citizens out for a leisurely vacation, they're diplomats who've accomplished their appointed task and need to return home to report it. Moreover, from their perspective the need for Windrunners is somewhat urgent because there's an active desolation.

If I were as smart as Shallan thinks she is, I'd gather up every Honorspren willing and take them straight to Urithiru to bond potentials.

[QuantumAce]

On 4/29/2024 at 7:39 AM, Jofwu said:

Who hurt you?

Gestures broadly at Sanderson's character outline for Kaladin. 

[coolsnow7]

On 4/30/2024 at 4:50 AM, RefusesToElaborate said:

Allow me to justify.

What sounds like a better champion, bondsmith with no shards, or a warrior trained on and armed with all ten surges?

As for El? Eh. It was just a vibe for me. I do think Todium is dumb if he doesn't make his champion swallow Yelig Nar though.

I absolutely love your post as a whole. 
 

Problem I have with El as champion is all this buildup to “who would you choose as your champion if you were me?” Maybe we’ll understand more about El and why Rayse wasn’t willing to bring him back whereas Taravangian did, but right now the setup is all but explicitly that Todium’s choice of champion is the loophole, is not what Rayse would have done, and is very counterintuitive.

[RefusesToElaborate]

1 hour ago, coolsnow7 said:

I absolutely love your post as a whole. 
 

Problem I have with El as champion is all this buildup to “who would you choose as your champion if you were me?” Maybe we’ll understand more about El and why Rayse wasn’t willing to bring him back whereas Taravangian did, but right now the setup is all but explicitly that Todium’s choice of champion is the loophole, is not what Rayse would have done, and is very counterintuitive.

Todiums champion IS the loophole? I'm bit sure what you mean.

[+Oltux72]

On 5/2/2024 at 1:07 PM, RefusesToElaborate said:

Shallan and Adolins mission is done, they're not citizens out for a leisurely vacation, they're diplomats who've accomplished their appointed task and need to return home to report it.

Well, no, I am sorry but that contradicts the reporting they already have done. They now have a Seon. Unless Hoid is absolutely uncooperative Dalinar already knows how their mission went. Moreover, additional Windrunners have become a moot point, if the duell is to start in just ten days. Adolin and Shallan are aware of that, unless Hoid is really mean.

[RefusesToElaborate]

11 hours ago, Oltux72 said:

Well, no, I am sorry but that contradicts the reporting they already have done. They now have a Seon. Unless Hoid is absolutely uncooperative Dalinar already knows how their mission went. Moreover, additional Windrunners have become a moot point, if the duell is to start in just ten days. Adolin and Shallan are aware of that, unless Hoid is really mean.

Right fair enough, but.

With a 10 day time limit for everything to go down I just... I feel it in my gut that Shallan and Adolin are going to be heading back to Urithiru as soon as possible. If they don't go to Urithiru then the only other direction I see them going is Kelek having a guilt induced breakdown and trying to drag them off to get B.A.M. and set her free.

I am not a smart man, but I just... nah. They won't stay in Lasting Integrity. That would make the story feel like they're spinning wheels without getting things done.

I am a big brain Stoneward and refuse to explain it. My gut vibe says I'm right.

[EdgedancerJacob]

On 5/4/2024 at 1:41 PM, RefusesToElaborate said:

I am a big brain Stoneward and refuse to explain it. My gut vibe says I'm right.

Username checks out

 

On 5/4/2024 at 1:41 PM, RefusesToElaborate said:

Shallan and Adolin are going to be heading back to Urithiru as soon as possible.

But in all seriousness, I think you're right here. I can't imagine these two would get word of what's going on in the Physical Realm and decide not to get there as soon as possible -- especially Adolin. Everything about Adolin's character says he is going to make a case for being the champion, even if deep down he knows he shouldn't be.