Is the "Sun" in shadesmar where Ba-Ado-Mishram is hidden?

[+Crossen]

My theory is that Kelek and co. used the oathgate in Rall Elorim to go to shadesmar and created a "rip" to the spiritual realm there and tossed Ba-Ado-Mishram inside. Possibly creating this rip was possible because Honor helped him in their last moments or that was the location he was dying which created a weakness in the fabric between realms. Could it be that the shadows in the cognitive realm act the way they do because of the "pull" to the spiritual realm?

Dow we have any idea in which direction the "sun" actually is on the horizon in the cognitive realm or the location where Honor died?

[Heilven]

Nice theory, but no. The "sun" is the beyond, and is visible everywhere regardless of what planet's subastral you are on. Without giving too much detail due to potential spoilers, we're certain that the "sun" has nothing to do with roshar in specific

[Treamayne]

4 hours ago, Crossen said:

My theory is that Kelek and co. used the oathgate in Rall Elorim to go to shadesmar and created a "rip" to the spiritual realm there and tossed Ba-Ado-Mishram inside. Possibly creating this rip was possible because Honor helped him in their last moments or that was the location he was dying which created a weakness in the fabric between realms. Could it be that the shadows in the cognitive realm act the way they do because of the "pull" to the spiritual realm?

Dow we have any idea in which direction the "sun" actually is on the horizon in the cognitive realm or the location where Honor died?

Could you please post (here, profile and/or an intro thread) a list of what you have (or have not) read (whichever list is shorter), so that we can avoid spoilers as needed?

Scadrial Spoilers:

Spoiler

Mistborn:Secret History should make the relationship of Shadesmar "Sun" apparent. Further Spoilers.

Spoiler

It is likely that the shadows are connected, because of the pull of the Beyond.

 

 

[+Crossen]

I have read the entire cosmere, including sample chapters, so I don't mind spoilers.

Note that the Iriali believe that the Spiritual Realm and the Beyond are the same thing, so they probably at least tangentially related. I think that the Spiritual Realm is somewhat like a blackhole and the Beyond is within the event horizon; an area where nothing can escape.

After looking into it further it seems like the official map of the sea of souls suggests that the "sun" is in the direction of Rall Elorim. Also has the "sun" only been seen from the Rosharan and Scadrian subastrals? They are next to each other in the official cosmere constellation map. Regardless, it could be possible that it is located in the Rosharan subastral, but can be seen from anywhere.

[Treamayne]

10 minutes ago, Crossen said:

so they probably at least tangentially related

They are very definitively not related. M:SH

Spoiler

P1, Ch1:

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Nearby, an unfortunate skaa woman lurched into the afterlife, then almost immediately faded. Her figure stretched, transforming to a white mist that was pulled toward a distant, dark point. That was how it looked, at least, though the point she stretched toward wasn’t a place—not really. It was . . . Beyond. A location that was somehow distant, pointing away from him no matter where he moved.

She stretched, then faded away. Other spirits in the square followed.

Kelsier spun on God. “What’s happening?”

“You didn’t think this was the end, did you?” God asked, waving toward the shadowy world. “This is the in-between step. After death and before . . .”

“Before what?”

“Before the Beyond,” God said. “The Somewhere Else. Where souls must go. Where yours must go.”

HoA Epilogue:

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I tried to bring them back, but apparently fixing the bodies doesn’t return the souls. I will get better at this with time, I expect. However, be assured that I have spoken with our friends, and they are quite happy where they are. They deserve a rest, I think

M:SH P6, Ch 8

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He looked to Vin and Elend and held out his hands, one toward each of them. “Thank you both for this new beginning. I have healed your bodies. You can return to them, if you wish.”

Vin looked to Elend. To Kelsier’s horror, he had begun to stretch out. He turned toward something Kelsier couldn’t see, something Beyond, and smiled, then stepped in that direction.

“I don’t think it works that way, Saze,” Vin said, then kissed him on the cheek. “Thank you.”

M:Sh P6 Ch 9

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I can’t bring them back,” Sazed said softly. “Not yet . . . perhaps not ever. The Beyond is a place I can’t reach.”

WoBs:

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Melhay

Also, We just took for granted that Sazed is with Tindwyl now. Is that so?

Brandon Sanderson

Well, here's the thing. What Sazed is right now is something of a god in the classic Greek sense—a superpowered human being, elevated to a new stage of existence. Not GOD of all time and space. In a like manner, there are things that Sazed does not have power over. For instance, he couldn't bring Vin and Elend back.

Where Tindwyl exists is beyond space and time, in a place Sazed hasn't learned to touch yet. He might yet. If you want to add in your heads him working through that, feel free. But as it stands at the end of the book, he isn't yet with Tindwyl. (He is, however, with Kelsier—who refused to "Go toward the light" so to speak, and has been hanging around making trouble ever since he died. You can find hints of him in Mistborn 3 at the right moments.

Barnes and Noble Book Club Q&A (July 8, 2009)

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Questioner

In Stormlight, Dalinar mentioned that <if he can die, he's no longer a god>, so to speak. And throughout the cosmere, gods died *inaudible*. Is there an omniscient, omnipotent, actual God in the cosmere?

Brandon Sanderson

Is there an omniscient, omnipotent God in the cosmere? Some people believe that there is. You guys laugh about this, but I don't mean it to be a laughing thing. There are certain questions I will not answer in the cosmere, specifically because it would too much undermine some of the characters' beliefs. And I want to treat characters respectfully. So whether there is life after you pass into the Beyond, and whether there is a God of gods, an omnipotent, as we would define "monotheistic God," are questions that I don't answer, and I let the characters deal with. Because if I answer that, then the character discussions about this are meaningless. Not really, but they kind of are. So there are a couple things I won't answer about the cosmere, because the characters don't have these answers.

Questioner

<Do you know the answer>?

Brandon Sanderson

I know the answer, yes.

Arcanum Unbounded release party (Nov. 22, 2016)

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Blightsong

Last year I asked you if shadows turn the wrong way in the cognitive realm for a reason, you said to basically think of it like important flavor text. Is this happening because people are being drawn towards the Beyond?

Brandon Sanderson

Um, yea that's part of it. Definitely.

OdysseyCon 2016 (April 8, 2016)

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Questioner

Close to the end of Rhythm of War, Dalinar Connects Kaladin to something, which gives him the vision of Tien. Did he Connect him to Tien's dead soul, and if so, does Dalinar know what he did?

Brandon Sanderson

There are two prevailing theories on what happened here among cosmerenauts, in-world Arcanists. You would get two different answers. The most common answer is, Dalinar attached himself to the Spiritual Realm, pulled out possibilities, and showed one of those to Kaladin.

Questioner

If so, where did the horse come from?

Brandon Sanderson

Either pure coincidence, or some sort of matching of Fortune to the moment, that ended up leading Kaladin to the place he needed to be, which is the way a lot of Fortune works. Fortune would be like, "You should go here," and you don't even know why. That's what the Arcanist answer would be, it would be the most common answer. Some people would say he reached into the Beyond and connected Tien to Kaladin via Tien's actual soul. I will leave these both as equally valid theories. As I've said many times, I'm not gonna say whether there is an actual afterlife in the cosmere because it is too foundational to too many characters' beliefs, or lack of beliefs, or worldview in-world to have the author contradict them either way.

Dragonsteel Mini-Con 2021 (Nov. 22, 2021)

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Argent

Is death in the Cosmere a two-stage process? It seems to me like (under normal circumstances) the body dies first, sending the mind fully in the Cognitive Realm; the soul, presumably, remains in the Spiritual for the entire process. I am a little unclear on what happens after that though - what is it that passes into the Beyond, just the mind? Does the soul / spiritual aspect / Spiritweb just kind of... break down in the Spiritual Realm, turn into free iInvestiture?

Brandon Sanderson

Yes. It's a two stage process, and most of what you said is correct. The odd thing is, though, that the Spiritweb doesn't completely break down (just like your body doesn't immediately break down.) Even after a long time, there's a record of that Spiritweb in the Spiritual Realm.

Oversleep

Wait wait wait. If there is a "corpse" of Spiritweb (so to speak) and actual, physical corpse is also there... Could it be still viable for Hemalurgy? Could it be still viable for Hemalurgy if you really know what you're doing and have some useful powers (manipulating Connection comes to mind)?

Could you patch the remnants of the Spiritweb and staple it to the body and end up with some zombie-zombie Lifeless? You'd still need to give it a mind but I figure Awakening is just doing that?

Brandon Sanderson

RAFO.

Stormlight Three Update #6 (Feb. 5, 2017)

 

It's understandable that it is confusing, because Kelsier himself confuses the Spiritual Realm and the Beyond until he ascends and learns the difference (repeatedly calling the SR "Beyond" while trapped in the Well - because he is trying to fingure it out. . . unreliable narrator).  Note the WoB where Brandon says he will never answer the question about the true nature of the Beyond or the God Beyond because he believes it is up to each person (and character in-story) to answer that for themselves. However, he has confirmed that a "spiritweb corpse" persists in the SR after whatever goes to the Beyond has left. 

Hope that helps

[alder24]

15 hours ago, Crossen said:

My theory is that Kelek and co. used the oathgate in Rall Elorim to go to shadesmar and created a "rip" to the spiritual realm there and tossed Ba-Ado-Mishram inside. Possibly creating this rip was possible because Honor helped him in their last moments or that was the location he was dying which created a weakness in the fabric between realms. Could it be that the shadows in the cognitive realm act the way they do because of the "pull" to the spiritual realm?

Dow we have any idea in which direction the "sun" actually is on the horizon in the cognitive realm or the location where Honor died?

Suns are different for each planetary system - Kelsier saw the Scadrian sun disappearing as he walked towards Ire. That means each subastral has its own sun. SH ch 5-1:

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He’d hoped to have the sun back once Ruin vanished from the sky, but after walking far enough out, he seemed to leave his world behind—and the sun with it. The sky here was nothing but empty blackness

We don't really know what the sun is, it might be related to SR, or not as Shardic essence can block the sun. The SR and the Beyond are two different things, we don't know and we will never know if the Beyond is real. 

10 hours ago, Crossen said:

After looking into it further it seems like the official map of the sea of souls suggests that the "sun" is in the direction of Rall Elorim.

I have no idea how you figure that out. Is it because there is a name "basin of the veiled sun?" It's just a name, it tells us nothing about where the sun is located in CR. This name might also mean that in that region the sun is so far away that clouds obstruct its light, which would mean that the sun is in the opposite direction from Rall Elorim, or something like that.