Verbing the invested art names

[WandererNearby]

I realized that I don't remember there being a time where the proper names of the three Scadrian Invested arts are verbed (nouns being turned into verbs). This is confusing to me because it happens a lot in English and some of the Invested Arts do get verbed like surgebinding and awakening. It makes sense that Scadrian Arts can be verbed because they're all intentional actions done by the Invested Artist like sand mastery and unlike the Old Magic. I just don't know why but it feels like Allomancy, Feruchemy, and Hemalurgy shouldn't be verbed. "Help! I Allomanced all of my steel and now I can't get up!!" or "Poor Dave, he got Hemalurged right in the face." just feel so wrong to me.

m I just crazy here? Is there linguistic or philological reason why this is true?

[Treamayne]

48 minutes ago, WandererNearby said:

I realized that I don't remember there being a time where the proper names of the three Scadrian Invested arts are verbed (nouns being turned into verbs). This is confusing to me because it happens a lot in English and some of the Invested Arts do get verbed like surgebinding and awakening. It makes sense that Scadrian Arts can be verbed because they're all intentional actions done by the Invested Artist like sand mastery and unlike the Old Magic. I just don't know why but it feels like Allomancy, Feruchemy, and Hemalurgy shouldn't be verbed. "Help! I Allomanced all of my steel and now I can't get up!!" or "Poor Dave, he got Hemalurged right in the face." just feel so wrong to me.

m I just crazy here? Is there linguistic or philological reason why this is true?

Well, part of it is because of how the Manifestation of Investiture is divided. Just as Kaladin does not Gravitationed himself (Lash), an Allomancer would not Coinshotted or Steeled themselves. The known Canon verbs for the Metallic Arts are:

• Pushed (Pushing metals, including emotional allomancy)
• Pulled (Pulling metals, ditto)
• Burned (The act of activation a Metal to access the associated investiture)
• Stored (saving a Feruchemical Attribute)
• Tapped (accessing a F-Attribute)
• Spiked (Hemalurgy, the act of taking or granting an attribute)
• Charged (The intent of ripping an attribute to be stored in a Spike)

Hope that helps

Edited April 26 by Treamayne
SPAG

[WandererNearby]

You're right and it's illustrative of my point. Awakening, Sand Mastery, and Surgebinding all get verbed or could be. "Kenton over-mastered himself", "Vivenna awakened the doll", and "Not unless you can surgebind to quiet [Bridge 4] up." are all sentences that aren't awkward to me (that last one is actually a quote from Words of Radiance). The important thing is that they're all instances of verbing the proper name of an Invested Art. However, there's no equivalent verbing of Allomancy, Feruchumy, and Hemalurgy even when one could make sense. "The Lord Ruler Allomanced the crowd", "Steel Inquistors Hemalurged her so that Ruin could control her.", or "Sazed feruchemed the memory away again." intellectually make sense but are significantly more awkward that the first three example sentences I gave. . 

[Treamayne]

On 4/26/2024 at 4:17 PM, WandererNearby said:

You're right and it's illustrative of my point. Awakening, Sand Mastery, and Surgebinding all get verbed or could be. "Kenton over-mastered himself", "Vivenna awakened the doll", and "Not unless you can surgebind to quiet [Bridge 4] up." are all sentences that aren't awkward to me (that last one is actually a quote from Words of Radiance). The important thing is that they're all instances of verbing the proper name of an Invested Art. However, there's no equivalent verbing of Allomancy, Feruchumy, and Hemalurgy even when one could make sense. "The Lord Ruler Allomanced the crowd", "Steel Inquistors Hemalurged her so that Ruin could control her.", or "Sazed feruchemed the memory away again." intellectually make sense but are significantly more awkward that the first three example sentences I gave.

Well, another primary difference for Scadrial, is when he was naming the magic systems, he specifically sought out science-based linguistics because Scadrial is the Cosmere world about seeing how Science and History change with the magic system over time (originally - Fantasy Trilogy, Urban Fantasy, Space Opera). You can see it in the WoB about Naming Feruchemy:

Spoiler

Brandon Sanderson

This is for both those of you who've read MISTBORN and those who haven't.

In the first book, you'll notice that I named two of the three magic systems present in the world. The primary name, which I'm quite satisfied with, is Allomancy.

Sazed's power is the one I'm considering changing. It is called Hemalurgy. Now, I like the way this sounds. However, it doesn't quite fit in meaning with Sazed's powers. (The Hema, which should evoke thoughts of 'blood' has rightly drawn complaints from readers.)

However, Hemalurgy DOES fit quite well with the third (mostly unmentioned magic system) used by the Steel Inquisitors.

So, I'd like to rename Sazed's magic system. Here are my thoughts.

Ferrachemy. I like the sound and construction of this one--it fits with the other two, and seems to relate well to Sazed's powers. The only problem is that I think it's too easy to read as "Ferr-Alchemy," which just doesn't feel right to me.

Ferruchemy. The word I'm drawing the 'Ferr' from anyway is Latin for iron, which is Ferrum. So, this is truer to my source, but it just doesn't sound as good to me.

Ferrichemy. I'm not sure if I like the way this one looks or not.

Ferrochemy. Perhaps where I'm leaning right now.

Anyone else have any suggestions? I like the traditional-science feel endings of things like 'mancy, 'lurgy, 'chemy. I also like beginnings that relate somehow to metals, as those are used so prevalently in the magic.

Brandon Sanderson

I just want to say thanks to everyone who has helped me with this one.

Ones I particularly liked:

Auronomy was VERY cool sounding. However, I'm worried about having two 'A' words for the magic. (Still debating this one.)

Ferramy also had me for a time. The only problem is that I really want something that has the same 'feel' as the other two magic systems.  This doesn't quite resonate right.

Sangrimancy is also very cool sounding.  The only problem is that I don't really need another 'blood' related magic system. Skar--I stored this one away for potential use in another world. 

However, I think Jade has really had the best suggestion on the thread. Dropping the second 'R' from the Ferr prefix makes it work a lot better with things. And, to avoid the 'feral' reference Stacer noticed, I think using the original Latin 'u' with the 'Fer' gets us a better word.

So, the current winner:

Feruchemy. It isn't actually the coolest sounding word on the thread--I think that's a tie between Auronomy and Sangrimancy. However, Feruchemy 'Fits' better with Allomancy and Hemalurgy. The three have a kind of internal resonance, and give the right feel.

Thanks all!

TWG Posts (April 9, 2005)

So, while most arts* are "named" by "something <person> does" - these were named to help imply how the Scientific Method will be portrayed in the world's understanding of the magic.

I say most, because one of your examples - Awakening - is not actually the name for that art, it's only one aspect of BioChroma (more akin to Steel Pushing as one aspect of Allomancy), which also includes the Heightenings, Divine Breath, BioChromatic Entities (some of which are Awakened), etc.

However, "Awakening" itself (and the state of being "Awakened") is becoming a Cosmere world-generic term for anything Awakened to Sapience or Sentience through Investiture - even when no Breath was involved at all (likely seen TLM, Tress, Yumi, TSM - Where Yumi is confirmed as not-BioChroma; and the other three would be possible by means other than BioChroma - but are not yet confirmed for or against). 

Spoiler

<snip>

Argent

There's smoke involved, there's eating of souls, there's a whole bunch of things. So what I do want to ask is: one, was the father machine Awakened using Breaths, using Nalthian Awakening? Or are you using Awakening as Lightweaving or Bondsmithing which is an overarching system in the Cosmere?

Brandon Sanderson

It's the second. This wouldn't exist in the pre-space-age as much; by space age there's a certain terminology that is going between... basically it's starting with the arcanists and moving to the general population. What certain themes in the Cosmere magics mean. And so when Hoid says "this is an Awakened machine" his audience understands what that means. It does not necessarily mean Breaths Awaken, but Breaths are one of the main ways that people see things be Awakened. You should be noticing those parallels, but that's a term that in the Cosmere is becoming genericized to mean un-living object being given some measure of sentience and even sapience by application of Investiture, Commands, and these sorts of things. By this point they've all interacted with various Awakened machines of sorts in the future Cosmere. They know what this means. They've talked to an Awakened computer.

<snip>

Shardcast Interview (July 30, 2023)

 

Edited April 29 by Treamayne
SPAG

[Forts Board]

i would hate to get hemalurged in the face, so i do feel bad for dave. 

[Eternal Khol]

12 hours ago, WandererNearby said:

I realized that I don't remember there being a time where the proper names of the three Scadrian Invested arts are verbed (nouns being turned into verbs). This is confusing to me because it happens a lot in English and some of the Invested Arts do get verbed like surgebinding and awakening. It makes sense that Scadrian Arts can be verbed because they're all intentional actions done by the Invested Artist like sand mastery and unlike the Old Magic. I just don't know why but it feels like Allomancy, Feruchemy, and Hemalurgy shouldn't be verbed. "Help! I Allomanced all of my steel and now I can't get up!!" or "Poor Dave, he got Hemalurged right in the face." just feel so wrong to me.

m I just crazy here? Is there linguistic or philological reason why this is true?

I was just thinking of this not 5 minutes ago.... had some theory or idea, regarding Hemalurgy, pop into my head but it totally went out the window when i thought "hemalurged" XD

[MindMeltingMistwraith]

I definitely see what you're saying. It does feel weird that some Arts have verb forms while others don't... but at the same time, I think it's just an English thing.

While some instances of "verbing" nouns (like "verbed") work just fine, others just don't. You don't "science," you do science. In the same way, you don't "Allomance" or "Hemalurge," (as funny as Hemalurge is), you "use Allomancy" and "use Hemalurgy."

Hope that was clear, my brain gets a little scrambled sometimes.

[Etedbert]

On 4/26/2024 at 2:08 PM, WandererNearby said:

I realized that I don't remember there being a time where the proper names of the three Scadrian Invested arts are verbed (nouns being turned into verbs). This is confusing to me because it happens a lot in English and some of the Invested Arts do get verbed like surgebinding and awakening. It makes sense that Scadrian Arts can be verbed because they're all intentional actions done by the Invested Artist like sand mastery and unlike the Old Magic. I just don't know why but it feels like Allomancy, Feruchemy, and Hemalurgy shouldn't be verbed. "Help! I Allomanced all of my steel and now I can't get up!!" or "Poor Dave, he got Hemalurged right in the face." just feel so wrong to me.

m I just crazy here? Is there linguistic or philological reason why this is true?

Looking at this from the real world perspective, it’s simultaneously easy and difficult to “verb” a word. (More accurately, we’re talking about creating denominal verbs).

basically, in English it’s easier to make a denominal verb from improper nouns than it is to do so with proper nouns. The terms, elbowed, kneeled, and rained  come to mind when you think of improper denominal verbs.

using proper nouns to make denominal verbs is WAY harder. Words like that are usually super rare and very specific. Boycott is a good example, a verb taken from a proper noun that over a century came to be used regularly. A term like “Houdini’d” is an example of a word possibly on its way to full verb. Sounds funky but you understand what it means.

basically, to make a denominal verb, the originating noun needs to have a pretty much universally understood meaning. 

the reason that some invested arts can be formed into denominal verbs easily, is because they’re partially formed with words that ALREADY have denominal verbs.

Brandon can’t say “Allomanced” because the word Allomancy is formed from noun structures that don’t have their own nominal verbs already. when we as readers are first introduced to Allomancy, we have no understanding of what the proper noun means and there’s no existing nominal verb Brandon could use to bridge the understanding, so he uses other vernacular verbs instead (Push, Pull, Burn). If he went out of the gate saying “Allomanced” it would only make it harder for reader’s to catch up and understand the magic system.

There’s an old study talking about denominal verbs I read a number of years ago, I can try to find the link and attach it here.

[WandererNearby]

Thanks @Etedbert!