Is Sazed Still A Feruchemist?

[Yados]

Because one notable thing about Sazed (read Harmony) that sets him apart from the other shadholders may be that he's a member of the magic system in this world and not just the creator of it. I wonder if that's important.

More notably: I don't think he's been using any health, strength, speed, etc for centuries, completely sustained by his shards. Is he still storing it?

Could you imagine some sort of final chapter to the Mistborn Series where Sazed's been de-Sharded by someone.. Odium, Trell, what have you.

And the big bad is all "mwahahahaha, you're powerless now 'Harmony'" and then Sazed is like "ORLY?" and hits him with over a thousand years of stored strength?

That would be cool.

[Ness]

Haha, I like this idea. Real question, is can he store his "godly" strength in some way? because I don't think even a thousand years of human strength would damage another shard, but a large amount of shard power? that would be something else entirely.

[Lance Alvein]

But in order to do any feruchemy, Sazed would need to have a physical body touching the metalmind that he was storing things into.

Because of the physical requirement of actually touching the metalminds (along with the lack of a physical body*), I don't think that he can actually practice feruchemy while holding the shards.

*The physical bodies of the previous shard holders vanished from the physical realm until after they died, so I would imagine that it holds true for Sazed as well.

[Yados]

But in order to do any feruchemy, Sazed would need to have a physical body touching the metalmind that he was storing things into.

Because of the physical requirement of actually touching the metalminds (along with the lack of a physical body*), I don't think that he can actually practice feruchemy while holding the shards.

*The physical bodies of the previous shard holders vanished from the physical realm until after they died, so I would imagine that it holds true for Sazed as well.

He could still be physically whole and w/ metal minds on the spiritual realm. We don't actually know how that works yet. Presumably, it still exits somehow because it comes back if you die.

And who knows. If Leras could let his body be burned as Allomancy, whose to say that Sazed couldn't store his strength in metal minds to be burned at a later date.

Haha, I like this idea. Real question, is can he store his "godly" strength in some way? because I don't think even a thousand years of human strength would damage another shard, but a large amount of shard power? that would be something else entirely.

Yeah, not only can Sazed store his godly power, but as the holder of Preservation, he can burn it at a positive net yeild.

He's a Shard compounder.

Lol, just kidding. I have no idea.

Edited May 11, 2012 by Yados

[Windrunner]

I don't think that Sazed would be able to store any power without a corporeal body. It really seems to require being in contact with the metal when you start to store or tap something, and as a Shard he can't really do that. Also where could he find enough metal to store enough power to challenge an enemy Shard if he somehow got ousted. The most useful metal for a Shard to use would be nicrosil for investiture which is an alloy so not in great supply in nature. Anyway I don't know that it would even be all that helpful against an enemy Shard. If Sazed somehow got a hold of enough metal to create these massive storages he wouldn't be able to really do anything against an enemy Shard. The best I can see him doing is trying to tap a whole bunch of connection so the Shard wouldn't destroy him. Maybe health would be helpful as well but its not like you can punch a Shard. It would still be cool for him to be able to do though.

[Eric]

I'm not sure about this. We know the Shards he holds are capable of fueling the Metallic arts, even to the point of altering what is in them (fueling Allomancy directly, editing copperminds, etc). He might be able to directly fill or tap any metalmind. I don't think we have enough direct evidence to call it one way or another.

[Commander Spoonface]

As I understand it, Ruin and Preservation were unable to directly affect metals themselves. If Ruin can't change the writing in a metal plate, why should he be able to store attributes in it?

[Windrunner]

Well Ruin can't see the metal because it glows, rendering him blind. He had no trouble changing words in the copperminds of all the Feruchemists on Scadrial. Brandon has said that Ruin and Preservation both can power Feruchemy. What I want to know is why Ruin didn't just destroy the metal tablets. Unless he didn't know where they were or still couldn't oppose Preservation enough to affect something that directly.

[Commander Spoonface]

Well if he couldn't see it, it would be difficult to destroy it, right?

I admit I had forgotten about that particular part. I take it back- if Ruin could directly affect what was stored in a metalmind, Sazed should be able to store attributes, or a process amounting to roughly the same thing.

[Triasmus]

I'd imagine that picking up a Shard completely rewrites most of one's spiritweb. All except for the part that includes your personality and memories (if the spiritweb has anything to do with either of those). Then there's prolly a backup encoded in the new spiritweb that has all of the old spiritweb for if the person somehow manages to get rid of the Shard without dying.

[Yados]

Well if he couldn't see it, it would be difficult to destroy it, right?

I admit I had forgotten about that particular part. I take it back- if Ruin could directly affect what was stored in a metalmind, Sazed should be able to store attributes, or a process amounting to roughly the same thing.

Yeah, I forgot all about that Coppermind stuff. I'm reaffirmed in my belief that, even if Sazed isn't doing this, he could if he wanted.

... Though let's break that down for a moment. Not only could Ruin alter copperminds, he could do it for other people. Which isn't supposed to be in Feruchemy. Could Sazed store his strength for centuries in a metalmind that could be used by someone else?

I'd imagine that picking up a Shard completely rewrites most of one's spiritweb. All except for the part that includes your personality and memories (if the spiritweb has anything to do with either of those). Then there's prolly a backup encoded in the new spiritweb that has all of the old spiritweb for if the person somehow manages to get rid of the Shard without dying.

That's a lot of speculation for something we know nothing about and you're handwaving the firmest piece of evidence we have about how it works-- that the physical forms show up again when the Shard dies.

[Triasmus]

I don't really have very good ideas of why the body comes back when the Shard dies, but we do know that when the person is a Shard their "body" is power (mistborn 3 epigraphs, I believe). And we do know that one's spiritweb influences the "form" their body takes. We can see this easily with koloss. physically all that's changed is a couple spikes in their bodies, spiritually we see parts of spiritwebs of other people attached and the result of that is physical mutation (and cognitively they're stupider).

So from that what I was saying is I'd imagine that most or all of the spiritweb is rewritten to make so drastic a change as having the body (as in, where the person in "based". I'd say people are based in the physical realm and we have strong cognitive and spiritual aspects (or maybe medium spiritual aspects unless the person uses magic), but that really doesn't matter that much here... I just wanted to say that I mean something else than "their body is turned into power, therefore if they're a bigger person, they'll have more power as a Shard". That would false.) reside in the spiritual realm (since power like that isn't in the physical realm and I don't really see why it would be in the cognitive realm [although holding the Shard does mutate the cognitive aspect of a person too, since they have perfect (or nearly-perfect) memory at the least]).

I failed to include a physical aspect and that's because I don't have any idea what their physical aspect would be. Yes, when they die their physical body appears but while they're alive their physical body isn't sitting in a room with the other shard's bodies having tea... I don't have any good idea of what their physical aspect might be, but I'd imagine that they'd have a physical aspect.

EDIT: I guess the physical aspect would be Shardpools/THE-mists/god-metals/...?

Edited June 4, 2012 by Lantern13

[Triasmus]

I'm sorry about bringing back a mostly dead topic, but I was really hoping SOMEONE would comment on my above post. I think that I'm at least mostly right but I would like other opinions.

[Vortaan]

It'd be neat if Sazed is storing power in the Elendel valley. High metal content could mean that he is literally storing up power in the valley itself, which is why it's so fertile.

[Squigy]

as Preservation Sazed should be able to alter how Feruchemy works, he may even be able to make metalminds store the "wrong" aspects,

also, it would be awesome to see that happen, Vortaan.

but what I most want to know, is how the God metals will be reintroduced to Scadreal.

[Observer]

but what I most want to know, is how the God metals will be reintroduced to Scadreal.

God metals are pieces of Harmony, and the creation of each one makes him weaker. I'd imagine the only reason Marsh gets his Atium is because he'd be unbalanced otherwise.

Think of it this way: from what we know, the metalmind is like allomantic metal, it doesn't hold the power itself, it's just a gateway. I'd assume the power to be stored in the spiritual realm, as it can't be physical and cognitive seems a tad unlikely. We know the height of a Shard's power is in the Spiritual realm, so storing in metal would just be giving Sazed his power back. My guess is that all shards (Remembering some quote that, without a body, a shardholder needs to use the Shard as fuel to keep him/herself alive) are constantly compounding to keep up with the power losses they go through to stay alive, think, etc.

Short Answer: Yes, but I don't think it will make a difference.

Edited August 28, 2012 by Observer

[Cracknut]

What's Lerasium's Feruchemical ability? If its storing spiritual power or something like that it could work...

[Observer]

What's Lerasium's Feruchemical ability? If its storing spiritual power or something like that it could work...

We don't know and I think Brandon RAFO'd it when somebody asked. The metal is simply to valuable, rare, and (currently) impossible to get that there really isn't a way to know what it does Feruchemically and Hemalurgically. Hopefully AoL2 and the second trilogy will tell us something.

[Millennium]

Didn't Sazed draw on the knowledge in his copperminds when fixing the world? If he can tap them, then it stands to reason that he can probably still store things too.

[Observer]

Didn't Sazed draw on the knowledge in his copperminds when fixing the world? If he can tap them, then it stands to reason that he can probably still store things too.

He pulled it in right before he vaporized, unfortunately.