How Strong Are Awakened Objects?

[Koloss17]

For this question, I am asking not of the utility of an object, just the simple amount of force an awakened object can exert. Does it depend on the awakener? The object awakened? For example, if the basic command “hold when thrown” is used on a shirt, and said shirt lands on someone’s face, how much would they have to exert themselves to stop themselves from suffocating? Is it a set strength?

This seems to be a simple question, yet I can’t seem to find the answer to it anywhere.

[Treamayne]

4 minutes ago, Koloss17 said:

For this question, I am asking not of the utility of an object, just the simple amount of force an awakened object can exert. Does it depend on the awakener? The object awakened? For example, if the basic command “hold when thrown” is used on a shirt, and said shirt lands on someone’s face, how much would they have to exert themselves to stop themselves from suffocating? Is it a set strength?

This seems to be a simple question, yet I can’t seem to find the answer to it anywhere.

Unfortunately it's not a simple question. Likely because it does depend on multiple factors, such as the material awakened, the size of that material, the Command and visualization and the number of breaths. Looking at examples:

• Awakened rope constructs are mentioned by Vasher as having been used in the Manywar to hurl boulders - but - 
• A short awakened cloth by Vivenna was barely able to bend a tree branch - but - 
• Another cloth by Vivenna was able to carry a full cup of liquid, then later was able to choke out Tonk Fah

Using Vivenna's exampes (since it shows multiple by the same actor), we see that early, when her Commands are not well developed the Awakenings have much less "power" to act on those Commands - as she improves, the dexterity improved (not that lifting a cup of water is heavy - but moving with it is certainly dextrous for a napkin) - and finally, it exerts enough pressure to not only cut off Tonk's airway, but be difficult for him to get fingers under the cloth to try pulling it away. 

Unfortunately, we don't have enough data (numbers) to calculate from any of those examples - but we do see that the long wall-hangings lift people easily, while the bloke's cloak (ch 14), while long for a cloak is much shorter than the wall hangings, was only able to lift him a few feet to see over the line at Court (though that may have been the desired effect). 

[Koloss17]

Colors, we really need Nightblood to come out, huh?

[alder24]

10 hours ago, Koloss17 said:

For this question, I am asking not of the utility of an object, just the simple amount of force an awakened object can exert. Does it depend on the awakener? The object awakened? For example, if the basic command “hold when thrown” is used on a shirt, and said shirt lands on someone’s face, how much would they have to exert themselves to stop themselves from suffocating? Is it a set strength?

This seems to be a simple question, yet I can’t seem to find the answer to it anywhere.

Quite a lot I would say. A banner can lift a person, a cloak can stop blades, a shirt can hold and fight with a sword, tassels can hold almost the entire weight of a person by themselves, ropes throwing boulders like catapults, Sousebron's fabrics throwing bodies around like they were nothing. Vivenna's rope was suffocating Tonk Fah and no amount of strength was going to stop that - Denth had to cut it. 

Breaths act as muscles in an Awakened object, but the material from which it's made gives the limit of how strong it can get. Ropes by design are very strong, capable of lifting incredible mass, but a shawl or a banner twisted and curled into the shape of a rope can hold a surprising amount of weight - regular fabric can be strong. An Awakened material can exert so much force as it can withstand without it ripping itself to pieces. This does depend on visualization and Command, but not on the amount of Breaths per the Law of Comparability - the amount of Breaths needed for Awakening doesn't define how powerful the object is. But if you visualize a cloth catching people while spreaded wide open like a net, it would be easier to tear and get rid of than a cloth which you visualized to twist like a rope first then catch.

10 hours ago, Treamayne said:

• A short awakened cloth by Vivenna was barely able to bend a tree branch - but - 
• Another cloth by Vivenna was able to carry a full cup of liquid, then later was able to choke out Tonk Fah

A rope bend a tree branch (so strong it cracked wood), a cloth carried a water cup, a rope choke out Tonk Fah.

ch 46:

Quote

She held out the rope to the branch. “Hold things,” she Commanded, reflexively letting out some of her Breath. She felt an instant of panic as her sense of the world dimmed.
The rope twitched. However, instead of drawing color from the tree, the Awakening pulled color from her tunic. The garment bled grey, and the rope moved, wrapping like a snake around the branch. Wood cracked slightly as the rope pulled tight.

ch 49:

Quote

Vivenna repeatedly Awakened a strip of cloth, unaware of Vasher. She Commanded the cloth to wiggle across the room, wrap around a cup, then bring that cup back without spilling.

ch 56:

Quote

She Awakened a pair of rope pieces, telling them to grab when thrown. [...]
She tossed the rope at him, threw the other at Tonk Fah, then dashed into the room. [...]
The one she threw at Tonk Fah, however, hit. He cried out, waking as it wrapped around his face and neck. [...]
Tonk Fah made a gagging sound as the rope twisted around his neck, choking him. He struggled to pull it free with little success. [...]
Finally, Denth cursed and jumped over to cut at the rope on his friend’s neck.

 

[Treamayne]

28 minutes ago, alder24 said:

A rope bend a tree branch (so strong it cracked wood)

I was referencing a different part of the same Scene (Ch 46):

Spoiler

“Hold that branch,” she Commanded. Again, Breath left her. More of it this time. Her trousers drained of color, and the rope end twisted, wrapping around the branch. The rest of it remained still.

<Snip>

Vivenna flushed, glancing back at the rope. “Hold when thrown,” she said, using a handkerchief for color. Her Breath left her, but the rope remained limp. So she tossed it to the side, hitting one of the hanging tree branches.

Which, to me, seemed the difference between it snagging the thin end of a bough (low enough and far enough out to be close to Vi's hand) vs the other two examples that were larger branches. But, I agree that awakenings can be strong, I was only trying to show how different examples from teh same person seemed to show slightly different tensile strengths in the Awakening based on how well the Command and Visualization were executed. 

[Tamriel Wolfsbaine]

22 hours ago, Koloss17 said:

For this question, I am asking not of the utility of an object, just the simple amount of force an awakened object can exert. Does it depend on the awakener? The object awakened? For example, if the basic command “hold when thrown” is used on a shirt, and said shirt lands on someone’s face, how much would they have to exert themselves to stop themselves from suffocating? Is it a set strength?

This seems to be a simple question, yet I can’t seem to find the answer to it anywhere.

I agree with @Treamayne that the skill and practice of the awakener is important. Likely the ability to visualize how well you want something to work is a large limiting factor. I think that is a large part of why Vasher has developed and chosen to use so many commands including the idea "as mine". Whether they be additions to his arms or his legs or even his whole body at once... It is far easier to nail down the visualization of something that you already do all the time. 

Although this idea makes me wonder if someone with TV who binge watches a ton of bruce lee could command a jumpsuit to act and fight like Bruce Lee... Which leads to the potential of giving further super powers to awakened objects as visual effects get better in cosmere wide cinema haha. Mistborn spoiler: 

Spoiler

Would copper ferrings excel at this even further being able to pull from their copperminds the perfect envisioning aspect of awakening?

I also think that material can only do what material can do. Dont expect a cord with 100lb tensile strength to hurl 200 lb boulders. Thankfully we have cordage that really really stacks in weight. Further, imagine future awakeners who hit the 9th heightening and the damage they could do with a set of extra long doc ock arms made of steel cable. 

I think the amount of breaths plays the smallest roll in this. The breaths will naturally balance out the materials ability to make your visualization come to life. 

[Koloss17]

1 hour ago, Tamriel Wolfsbaine said:

I agree with @Treamayne that the skill and practice of the awakener is important. Likely the ability to visualize how well you want something to work is a large limiting factor. I think that is a large part of why Vasher has developed and chosen to use so many commands including the idea "as mine". Whether they be additions to his arms or his legs or even his whole body at once... It is far easier to nail down the visualization of something that you already do all the time. 

Although this idea makes me wonder if someone with TV who binge watches a ton of bruce lee could command a jumpsuit to act and fight like Bruce Lee... Which leads to the potential of giving further super powers to awakened objects as visual effects get better in cosmere wide cinema haha. Mistborn spoiler: 

  Reveal hidden contents

Would copper ferrings excel at this even further being able to pull from their copperminds the perfect envisioning aspect of awakening?

I also think that material can only do what material can do. Dont expect a cord with 100lb tensile strength to hurl 200 lb boulders. Thankfully we have cordage that really really stacks in weight. Further, imagine future awakeners who hit the 9th heightening and the damage they could do with a set of extra long doc ock arms made of steel cable. 

I think the amount of breaths plays the smallest roll in this. The breaths will naturally balance out the materials ability to make your visualization come to life. 

A tangentially related question that is very related to the root of this whole question:

What if, say, a blind guy were to awaken something? What would count as “visualization” there?

[Tamriel Wolfsbaine]

1 hour ago, Koloss17 said:

A tangentially related question that is very related to the root of this whole question:

What if, say, a blind guy were to awaken something? What would count as “visualization” there?

I don't know the answer to that one. If awakened objects work off of some sort sense of their own similar to life sense or other invested senses i think that the visualization for a blind person could work in a way... 

The "act as my legs" should work for that visualization even if a blind person doesn't know what legs look like. 

Perhaps blind people would not be limited with awakening commands involving the way they move and "see" themselves moving. 

I also imagine an awakener with access to other enhanced senses would be able to include those, in a way, to their awakening. 

We already know that there are awakened objects that can detect movement to the point of catching shots at the back. I don't know the exact mechanism for how the objects see but there is obviously something going on there that makes their ability to sense the world around them acute and accurate enough to catch fast moving projectiles... how many people can catch an arrow out of thin air? 

I always liked the idea of Awakening something with a command to grant the ability to sense the world in the way that awakened objects can. A blindfold that grants a sort of 6th sense that is 360 degrees and can pick up on all movement would be awesome! Possibly even worth giving up real sight for temporarily. 

[Treamayne]

8 hours ago, Koloss17 said:

What if, say, a blind guy were to awaken something? What would count as “visualization” there?

Fortunately, we have a (partial) answer to this already. WoB:

Spoiler

Questioner

In Warbreaker: the magic system is really visual, and when heightened people are around, the colours get really saturated and I was wondering about blind people or colour blind people. How can they percieve the effects of Investiture?

Brandon Sanderson

Their minds would interpret it in a way that works for them. Their brain would come up with some way to interpret the sensory [input] they're getting. And so the colour blind... The colours are still going to saturate, but saturate in a way that they can tell. Not being colour blind it is really hard for me to describe. But I read about it, and at least that's the rule I have for myself in the head. For an actual blind person this is going to be a magic system that's harder to use. Just having a disability, unfortunatly. But it also gives perfect pitch, and I think that partially their auditory senses would compensate to a degree, but it's going to be a harder magic system to use. I'm sure they could find a way to work around it.

Leipzig Book Fair (March 24, 2017)

I think that this, particularly, would heavily factor on a case-by-case basis. For example, was the individual born sighted or not? How recently has the blindness occurred? etc. The five sense concept is a fallacy (or at least incomplete reasoning) and they would also be able to engage proprioception, equilobrioception, etc. In fact, for some applications, this may even make them more effective, especially if they are adept at providing multiple "senses" as part of their "visualization" (Mistborn Spoilers):

Spoiler

Think of Spook in Urteau and how senses other than sight increased his fighting ability - even before he was spiked