Vivennas cloak

[Tamriel Wolfsbaine]

Kaladin sees Azure fighting with her cloak around her arm.  In my mind I always pictured a shield but I am not convinced an awakened cloak could make a decent one... if she were an stoneward I would for sure assume that was it.  

As an awakener what do you suppose she was actually doing with that?  Is it a new command or was it more of a strengthen this..  or even used to grab and parry enemy strikes?  

I really need to reread that section again. 

[Etedbert he/him]

I remember an old thread where this got brought up, apologies that I can’t find it.

I don’t believe we get an answer in book, but we see Vasher do it in WoR I think, so it’s a way of connecting Vivenna to him, showing that he trained her. The advantage of it could be a complex command involving parrying or grappling a weapon or opponent, but likely it’s just that by putting breaths into it, it becomes resistant to other investiture, and similar to half-shards might allow her to block a or glance off a blow from a shard weapon.
Another option would be that it’s there to be used with commands, but isn’t currently awakened. Like how Vasher uses his cloak to grapple enemies in Warbreaker, having the cloak readily available on your arm would make it easier to awaken and then launch at someone or something.

TLDR: It’s probably just a cheap way for a Nalthian to make an investiture-resistant bracer to protect themselves

[Treamayne]

35 minutes ago, Tamriel Wolfsbaine said:

Kaladin sees Azure fighting with her cloak around her arm.  In my mind I always pictured a shield but I am not convinced an awakened cloak could make a decent one... if she were an stoneward I would for sure assume that was it.  

As an awakener what do you suppose she was actually doing with that?  Is it a new command or was it more of a strengthen this..  or even used to grab and parry enemy strikes?  

I really need to reread that section again. 

Do you mean Adolin? Kaladin sees her draping the cloak, but not fighting that way. Not that it matters, I (at the time) took it to be that she was keeping it in contact with skin so that she could Awaken it, as/if needed; not that it was already serving some purpose being awkened and draped (although it could be a "Protect me" awakening, as seen in Warbreaker). Oathbringer:

Spoiler

Ch 78

Quote

Not long after Kaladin arrived, the two platoon captains called their men to muster. Kaladin fell into line between Beard and Ved, and together they saluted as Azure stepped into the doorway. She was arrayed for battle as always, with her breastplate, chain, and cloak.

Tonight, she decided to do a formal inspection. Kaladin held attention with the others as she walked down their lines and commented quietly to the two captains. She looked over a few swords, and asked several of the men if they needed anything. Kaladin felt as if he’d stood in similar lines a hundred times, sweating and hoping that the general would find everything in order.

They always did. This wasn’t the type of inspection that was intended to actually find problems—this was a chance for the men to show off for their highmarshal. 

Ch 79

Quote

“Good. Squad, you’re with me.”

He found Azure surveying the Eighth Platoon’s losses near their guard tower. She had her cloak off and held oddly in one hand, wrapped around her forearm, with part of it draping down below. Her unsheathed Shardblade glittered, long and silvery.

Kaladin stepped up to her, the sleeve of his uniform stained dark with the blood of the Voidbringer he’d killed. Azure looked tired, and she gestured with her sword outward. 

Ch 83

Quote

“Pull out the wounded!” Azure called, stepping in. “Seventh Company, hold that far side of the room, make sure they don’t try to rush back in. Third Company, sweep the wings and make sure there aren’t any surprises.”

Curiously, Azure had removed her cloak and wrapped it half around her left arm. Adolin had never seen anything like it; perhaps she was accustomed to fighting in Plate.

Adolin got some water, then let a surgeon bandage the shallow cut he’d taken.

 

 

Edited March 24, 2024 by Treamayne
SPAG

[alder24]

9 hours ago, Tamriel Wolfsbaine said:

Kaladin sees Azure fighting with her cloak around her arm.  In my mind I always pictured a shield but I am not convinced an awakened cloak could make a decent one... if she were an stoneward I would for sure assume that was it.  

As an awakener what do you suppose she was actually doing with that?  Is it a new command or was it more of a strengthen this..  or even used to grab and parry enemy strikes?  

I really need to reread that section again. 

She did something like this - RoW ch 15:

Quote

Zahel came in from Kaladin’s other side, and Kaladin barely turned in time, swinging his Blade. Zahel deflected the strike with his arm, which he’d wrapped with cloth. In his other hand he carried a long scarf that he whipped forward, catching Kaladin’s off hand and wrapping it with shocking tightness, like a coiling whip.
Zahel pulled, yanking Kaladin off balance. Kaladin maintained his feet, barely, and lunged with a one-handed strike. Zahel again deflected the strike with his cloth-wrapped arm. That sort of tactic would never have worked against a real Shardblade, but it could be surprisingly effective against ordinary swords. New recruits were often surprised at how well a nice thick cloth could stop a blade.
Zahel still had Kaladin’s off hand wrapped in the scarf, which he heaved, spinning Kaladin around.
[...]
Zahel’s hands became a blur as he pushed the sword to the side with his stretched-out scarf, then twisted his hands around, neatly wrapping the scarf around the sword. That gave him leverage to push the sword farther away as he stepped into Kaladin’s lunge and slid his makeshift wrapping along the length of the Blade, coming in close. Here, he somehow twisted his cloths around to wrap Kaladin’s wrists as well. Kaladin tried a head-butt, but Zahel stepped into the move and raised one side of the scarf—letting Kaladin’s head go underneath it. With a twirl and a twist, Zahel completely tied Kaladin in the scarf. How long was that thing?
The exchange left Kaladin with not only his hands tied tightly, but a scarf now holding his arms pinned to his sides, Zahel standing behind him. Kaladin couldn’t see what Zahel did next, but it involved sending a loop of scarf up over Kaladin’s head and around his neck. Zahel pulled tight, choking off Kaladin’s air.
I think we’re losing, Syl said. To a guy wielding something he found in Adolin’s sock drawer.
[...]
Zahel snatched a sheet off the fluttering lines, twisting it and wrapping it into a tight length, like a cord. Kaladin rubbed his neck.
“I think … I think I have seen this style before. You fight like Azure does.”
“She fights like me, boy.”

[Tamriel Wolfsbaine]

Thanks for the replies. 

17 minutes ago, alder24 said:

She did something like this - RoW ch 15:

Ah. So like a single arms worth of a tight gambeson that can double as a reach weapon later on in a grappling match. This actually makes way more sense than what I had initially pictured. I had pictured the cloak more draped over the arm than wrapped tightly. Looking at the effectiveness of a gambeson to stop cuts, and then knowing they could dump breaths into it to make it shard resistant actually helps the visualization way more. 

Less of a matador getting ready for a bullfight (how I initially pictured it) and more of a dog training sleeve for bite protection and parrying (how I think the visualization makes more sense). 

The effectiveness of the gambeson through history really makes this style seem way more efficient and effective. What is even more fun about using it as potential armor and parrying tool is that you don't actually have to wrap it yourself. You can simply have the cloak or cloths do the work for you. Now I picture awakeners like a sort of Gaara with ribbons and bands of cloth that are capable of wrapping and warping around themselves to offer protection and attacks when needed. 

 

[Returned he/him]

It's also worth noting that a lot of time has passed between the end of Warbreaker and RoW, so it's likely that Vivenna is a much more skilled Awakener than before, and that the "cloth that is an extension of my body" genre of Commands is one that Vasher was actively refining before he and Vivenna were especially close. The "act as my hands and grip what I must" type of Command is pretty abstract and could cover a lot of situations, including those unforseen by the Awakener, without needing time and presence of mind to Awaken the clothing in a flash during the heat of battle.

What we see of Vasher's cloak and, separately, his tassels suggests to me that the best use of Awakened clothing in a fight is a flexible Command related to parrying and entangling opponents. Years of additional practice and refinement would, I expect, yield a pretty incredible and responsive style of combat impossible without an Awakened garment. I imagine the surface of the cloak rippling and stiffening to turn blows aside or bleed off their momentum, tripping or disarming or blinding enemies, actively hiding the position and motion of Vivenna's sword, and allowing her to resist Invested attacks/effects at a minimum. And I think that potential applications go beyond those, or anything we've yet seen or imagined.

[Tamriel Wolfsbaine]

42 minutes ago, Returned said:

It's also worth noting that a lot of time has passed between the end of Warbreaker and RoW, so it's likely that Vivenna is a much more skilled Awakener than before, and that the "cloth that is an extension of my body" genre of Commands is one that Vasher was actively refining before he and Vivenna were especially close. The "act as my hands and grip what I must" type of Command is pretty abstract and could cover a lot of situations, including those unforseen by the Awakener, without needing time and presence of mind to Awaken the clothing in a flash during the heat of battle.

What we see of Vasher's cloak and, separately, his tassels suggests to me that the best use of Awakened clothing in a fight is a flexible Command related to parrying and entangling opponents. Years of additional practice and refinement would, I expect, yield a pretty incredible and responsive style of combat impossible without an Awakened garment. I imagine the surface of the cloak rippling and stiffening to turn blows aside or bleed off their momentum, tripping or disarming or blinding enemies, actively hiding the position and motion of Vivenna's sword, and allowing her to resist Invested attacks/effects at a minimum. And I think that potential applications go beyond those, or anything we've yet seen or imagined.

I was watching the beginning fight scenes of Jet Li's Fearless and the saber fighter really stood out as a potential example of what parrying with a wrapped arm could do. If you amplify that further through more intricate commands that could definately be a big deal.  I am sure you are correct that the command has evolved over time. 

I like to think that the breaths... become better at doing what you want. It isn't just the awakener and the commands but their connection to the breaths and the combined experience of eachother that allows for really complex commands such as that. 

Good points.  

Now I am curious what an awakeners loadout might look like as far as tools for it.  

Being a large fan of Fandabi Dozi and his channel I have always pictured an awakener with some large greatkilt and wraps around the arms and legs as well as some good old fashion rope(s) and perhaps... if lucky enough an awakened sword and some flasks of ichor alcohol.  

I think it may also be wise to carry a few ink sticks that can be dissolved in water to re-dye any and all awakened clothing... being able to awaken it in your free time and then dye it again for last minute transfers and re awakening that may be needed during travels.