Fueling Feruchemy with other forms of Investiture.

[RowdyGryphon]

So I can see how almost all forms of magic in the cosmere could be fueled by other forms of Investiture, such as purified Dor. Do we know if this is possible with Feruchemy? Would you need something else such as a spike of some sort? 

[RoyalBeeMage]

compounding is effectivly using allomancy to fuel ferucemistry if I'm not mistaken. if i was trying to fill metal minds in world that would proberbly be the first place i looked. that is assuming that you have unkeyed metal minds.

[Trusk'our]

2 hours ago, RowdyGryphon said:

So I can see how almost all forms of magic in the cosmere could be fueled by other forms of Investiture, such as purified Dor. Do we know if this is possible with Feruchemy? Would you need something else such as a spike of some sort? 

Welcome to the Shard friend!

There are a lot of powers that could potentially fuel Feruchemy; A-pewter can be siphoned off while Burning to fuel F-Pewter, F-steel, F-gold, F-tin's sense of balance (which is an assumption that it's possible, but seems likely), and F-brass and bronze might be able to benefit too.

Having lots of Breaths would make it easier to Store health and color perception may be able to be Stored via F-tin.

Strength from Stormlight or Shardplate can probably be stored in a Pewtermind, and health may be Storable by a Radiant with Stormlight or maybe if the Feruchemist has the Surge of Progression used on them.

Actually, I wonder if F-tin could Store a Windrunner's intuitive sense of air pressure. That would be interesting. 

Now, as for raw, purified Investiture, I see no reason why it wouldn't work, as Identity and Connection are non issues and only having a power to "program" the Investiture matters.

Marsh could probably even fuel his Atium longevity off of it, if he thought about it.

[RoyalBeeMage]

2 minutes ago, Trusk'our said:

Marsh could probably even fuel his Atium longevity off of it, if he thought about it.

marsh still needs a lot of atium and purifide dor to do that though

[Trusk'our]

Just now, RoyalBeeMage said:

marsh still needs a lot of atium and purifide dor to do that though

True, but liquid Investiture is the most potent form of Investiture, and Atium it in short supply for him currently. 

While Purified Dor does seem difficult for the Ghostbloods to get ahold of, it's not as hard as Ruin's Godmetal.

Spoiler

Hero of Ages Q&A - Time Waster's Guide (Oct. 15, 2008)
 

 

Kaimipono

Allomancy is fueled by Preservation's body? How exactly does that work? And how does that interact with Atium—it's fueled by both gods' bodies?

Brandon Sanderson

The powers of Ruin and Preservation are Shards of Adonalsium, pieces of the power of creation itself. Allomancy, Hemalurgy, Feruchemy are manifestations of this power in mortal form, the ability to touch the powers of creation and use them. These metallic powers are how people's physical forms interpret the use of the Shard, though it's not the only possible way they could be interpreted or used. It's what the genetics and Realmatic interactions of Scadrial allow for, and has to do with the Spiritual, the Cognitive, and the Physical Realms.

Condensed 'essence' of these godly powers can act as super-fuel for Allomancy, Feruchemy, or really any of the powers. The form of that super fuel is important. In liquid form it's most potent, in gas form it's able to fuel Allomancy as if working as a metal. In physical form it is rigid and does one specific thing. In the case of atium, it allows sight into the future. In the case of concentrated Preservation, it gives one a permanent connection to the mists and the powers of creation. (I.e., it makes them an Allomancer.)

So when a person is burning metals, they aren't using Preservation's body as a fuel so to speak—though they are tapping into the powers of creation just slightly. When Vin burns the mists, however, she'd doing just that—using the essence of Preservation, the Shard of Adonalsium itself—to fuel Allomancy. Doing this, however, rips 'troughs' through her body. It's like forcing far too much pressure through a very small, fragile hose. That much power eventually vaporizes the corporeal host, which is acting as the block and forcing the power into a single type of conduit (Allomancy) and frees it to be more expansive.

 

[RoyalBeeMage]

2 minutes ago, Trusk'our said:

True, but liquid Investiture is the most potent form of Investiture, and Atium it in short supply for him currently. 

While Purified Dor does seem difficult for the Ghostbloods to get ahold of, it's not as hard as Ruin's Godmetal.

  Reveal hidden contents

Hero of Ages Q&A - Time Waster's Guide (Oct. 15, 2008)
 

 

Kaimipono

Allomancy is fueled by Preservation's body? How exactly does that work? And how does that interact with Atium—it's fueled by both gods' bodies?

Brandon Sanderson

The powers of Ruin and Preservation are Shards of Adonalsium, pieces of the power of creation itself. Allomancy, Hemalurgy, Feruchemy are manifestations of this power in mortal form, the ability to touch the powers of creation and use them. These metallic powers are how people's physical forms interpret the use of the Shard, though it's not the only possible way they could be interpreted or used. It's what the genetics and Realmatic interactions of Scadrial allow for, and has to do with the Spiritual, the Cognitive, and the Physical Realms.

Condensed 'essence' of these godly powers can act as super-fuel for Allomancy, Feruchemy, or really any of the powers. The form of that super fuel is important. In liquid form it's most potent, in gas form it's able to fuel Allomancy as if working as a metal. In physical form it is rigid and does one specific thing. In the case of atium, it allows sight into the future. In the case of concentrated Preservation, it gives one a permanent connection to the mists and the powers of creation. (I.e., it makes them an Allomancer.)

So when a person is burning metals, they aren't using Preservation's body as a fuel so to speak—though they are tapping into the powers of creation just slightly. When Vin burns the mists, however, she'd doing just that—using the essence of Preservation, the Shard of Adonalsium itself—to fuel Allomancy. Doing this, however, rips 'troughs' through her body. It's like forcing far too much pressure through a very small, fragile hose. That much power eventually vaporizes the corporeal host, which is acting as the block and forcing the power into a single type of conduit (Allomancy) and frees it to be more expansive.

 

so if marsh can get enough of runis god metal he could feed dor to it to be imortal?

[Trusk'our]

17 minutes ago, RoyalBeeMage said:

so if marsh can get enough of runis god metal he could feed dor to it to be imortal?

I see no reason why he couldn't.

It was able to fuel Aetherbound and Allomancy after all, and neither has any Spiritual Connection to the Dor.

[Benkinsky]

"fuel" Feruchemy as in fueling the storing? I have a whole theory on how you could use AonDor to compound, but that's cheating the Tapping part of Feruchemy, not the Storing. For storing some things come to mind, like having Stormlight to heal you while you store health, stuff like that.

Which brings me to a thought that is tangentially related. Wonder if you could store health and be a very effective user of the Disease-Magic on Ashyn due to that.

[Quantus]

9 hours ago, Trusk'our said:

I see no reason why he couldn't.

It was able to fuel Aetherbound and Allomancy after all, and neither has any Spiritual Connection to the Dor.

He probably cant just use Purified Dor because he cant actually, natively Burn Atium-As-Age (unless his spiritweb has warped/adapted over the years.  He might be able to supplement his burn with a little Atium for the Compounding Hack retuning and a lot of Purified Dor to get carried along and donate Investiture, but he'd still need (and use up) that seed atium.  But regardless, Atium age reduction cant get you to a true, practical immortality since it has diminishing returns.  Far better to just acquire (and/or manufacture) 5000 Breaths for a more perpetual age reduction.  

To the OP, there should be several ways to fuel Feruchemy with other investitures.  Most are just theory at this point, but they fall into two categories: Recharging Metalminds and Magically Raising the Attributes before storing.  Breaths will natively adapt to the identity of the target when given, so I fully believe there exists a Command to Invest them into a metalmind and flush their investiture into the Metalmind's storage (adapting to the identity and Investiture tuning) in a very effective if expensive way to charge them. Other Investitures like Dor or the Lights could probably be forced in there and/or tuned appropriately, but they'd take more complex steps Im sure.  

For the other side, anything that augments one or more of the attributes can raise your Storing max and/or Rates.  Being a Returned, having the Royal Locks, or A-Pewter all activate a Mind-over-Matter state that can augment a lot of different aspects of their physical self, and they'd be fed by a Divine Breath, Food metabolism, and Preservation respectively.  Holding Stormlight itself will augment some capabilities that could probably be stored.  An Elantrian would have some interesting things to Store, as would Dakhor monks or anyone augmenting themselves with that mysterious Dor Potion magic.

 

[alder24]

13 hours ago, RowdyGryphon said:

So I can see how almost all forms of magic in the cosmere could be fueled by other forms of Investiture, such as purified Dor. Do we know if this is possible with Feruchemy? Would you need something else such as a spike of some sort? 

Yes. Pure Dor will always work, something like Stormlight would need some more work (it's keyed):

Spoiler

Questioner

As far as the Lord Ruler goes, how did he use the Twinborn thing? Feruchemy and Allomancy?

Brandon Sanderson

What he had to figure out how to do is: Allomancy is powered by Spiritual power directly from the Shard of Adonalsium. Whereas Feruchemy is powered by your own Investiture and effort being transferred into the thing. What he needed to do was figure out a way to power Feruchemy with Allomantic power, right? You could have done the same thing by fueling it with the Dor, or with Stormlight, or another external. But he only had access to three magics. So what he had to do was figure out that.

So what he's doing is, he's basically taking metals, (since he's a Feruchemist and an allomancers), and he is burning metals that he has Invested himself, but then using... basically, switching it so he gets a burst of Allomantic power that is charged with a Feruchemical attribute. So it's powering Feruchemy with Allomancy by burning the metal that he himself has Invested.

Questioner

So he was essentially putting stuff into the metal?

Brandon Sanderson

Basically, priming the pump. He puts it in with Feruchemy. Then he burns it with Allomancy. But that fuels Feruchemy with Allomancy, which allows him to draw on the powers of the Shards, rather than himself. So it's not really a perpetual motion machine, because he's drawing the power from someone else. But it's external, which allows him to break the rules of Feruchemy.

The big question I have is: that works in the book, because you can dig into the technicalities of the book. But that's not gonna work in the movie, right? That explanation right there, that's so many levels over the heads of the audience. So I have to figure out a way to not break the cosmere magic, but make it simpler to understand in the movie. Which is the big headache in writing the screenplay. That's probably the biggest challenge in the screenplay is to figure out how to make that all work.

LTUE 2020 (Feb. 15, 2020)

 

 

[+hwiles]

I would like to think that Elantrians should be able to write scripts for recharging metalminds using the Dor. Just make friends with an Elantrian 

[RowdyGryphon]

Thanks everyone! This went places I didn't expect and definitely answered my question.