Surgebinders

[Telcontar]

I wanted to say that gravity itself is a physical thing. It is in our world and I can't imagine it otherwise on Roshar. The force that prevents people from floating into space. But the physical thing is manipulated by a spritual process.

I have seen your theory before, you are right of course. And afaik it's not something Brandon has said but the Ars Arcanum's author that states that

a Basic Lashing involved a being's or object's spiritual gravitational bond to the planet below, instead temporarily linking that being or object to a different object or direction.

I agree with you that Stormlight is a spritual force and with like everything you say. Gravity is still influencing the object or being, only in another direction. I don't like the idea (only my personal feeling) that only a spiritual bond is responsible for holding stuff in the "normal" direction.

Brandon seems to put so much attention on physics, planets pull stuff down because of their huge mass. Well, this may be my limited mind and probably is. If you invent a magic system that can divert the gravitational pull then there has to be a way how to do it... I'm confused

However. I wanted to point out the difference between the (Secondary) Investitures taking place in the physical realm or in the cognitive. Stormlight manifests in the physical realm and it passes from Kaladin to stone in the physical. It's effect takes place on the spiritual plane. In Soulcasting it passes from the physical to the cognitive.

You see Stormlight as a pure spiritual force, which just happens to be able to be seen in the physical realm, do you? Then that's probably where we disagree. I think there is more to it, there has to be some physical part in order to trap it in gemstones and to be transported with a Highstorm.

Hope you understand anything of this, I probably wouldn't myself.

[Windrunner he/him]

Spiritual gravitational bonds bugged me too for a while, but it's canon. The way I think about it, investiture probably is the power for all the fundamental forces in the Cosmere. We know that spiritual energy eventually re-coalesces (Well of Ascension) so maybe like is attracted to like. Smaller objects have less spiritual energy, and so are less attracted to other objects.

Can you point me too your post about where you divided investiture? I have trouble figuring out what you mean when you use the terms primary and secondary, so this would help me understand what you're saying.

[Telcontar]

Can you point me too your post about where you divided investiture? I have trouble figuring out what you mean when you use the terms primary and secondary, so this would help me understand what you're saying.

It's in my spren-theory. More precisely it's in my third and fourth premise (although I have to admit I made a mistake in numbering them, you'll get it )

And, to make it even easier, here it is:

"3 – An Investiture is a transfer of the power of creation from subject to subject or from subject to object.

4 – There are two forms of Investiture: primary Investiture is the transfer of Power from a Shard to subject or object. Secondary Investitures are transfers from human to subject or object."

[CrazyRioter she/her]

remember that the AA is an in-world document, and that the people writing them may not always know what the heck they are talking about, so we can't know whether the whole "spiritual bond" thing is true fax or just the interpretation of somebody that doesn't know crap about physics. Unfortunately it may require Word of Brandon to sort it out.

I'm not sure Stormlight needs to have a physical part to order to be trapped by gemstones, it isn't trapped by the physical object but by it's spiritual aspect.

[Odium's_Shard]

I was about to point out what CrazyRioter stated, but I have a habit of getting ninja'd alot on these forums. Basically, I'll explain it in terms of Stormlight passing from the Storm to the Gem in order to simplify the process (as Gem to anything else involves complicated Cognitive ramifications).

Firstly, the Stormlight somehow comes with the Storm from the Origin. This is universally known (though it unsure as to the previous stages, or what the Origin really is).

Then, in the final stages of the truly dangerous part of the Storm, Kaladin experience the flow of Stormlight (described as a cold tingling in is spine, and the gem lighting up). It is this stage I am interested in.

Think of the Three Realms of Physical, Cognitive and Spiritual presences as a single image. The eyes can only interpret the Physical, but it is my personal theory that the mind interacts with others on a Cognitive level in order to second-guess them, as humans have an ability to do, and the Spiritual is virtually indescribable or untouchable by anyone without Investiture. I am taking Investiture to mean the process of being involved with a Shard's system (in certain ways, ie, certain Mistings) and having access to it's power in Spiritual terms. In this way, Shardblades could be described as Invested objects, as they seem to have links with the Spiritual Realm.

Now, split this 'whole image' into three layers. I see the Physical, as does everyone else, but then the Cognitive to me appears as tiny dotted lines of interaction between objects, as well as the overarching recollections of Shadesmar in the background (but with Physical images still present), and the Spiritual seems bluish glows in places it takes effect, but still on the backdrop of the Physical image.

Now, say, the Stormlight, as I feel, is purely Spiritual. It would make sense. The gem, too, as do all things, must have a Spiritual presence, its own tiny void in the surrounding space of the Spiritual in which it is protected by its 'Spiritual defense' (which is incredibly low due to its lack of Cognitive power). Now, say that Stormlight, in order to affect, fill, or even just touch and object must in some way penetrate its Spiritual defense. Think of this as a Cognitive battle, but held in the Spiritual realm (and the Physical, due to the coloration of Light in a Physical sense). The Stormlight has a far higher power rating that the gem, and so is successful in penetrating its defenses and filling this void.

However, in humans, such as Kaladin, this doesn't happen. I propose that this is because the Cognitive presence of Kaladin is far stronger, even though he has a Spiritual 'void' in which the Stormlight can penetrate (think of the principles of diffusion), the Light cannot, for Kaladin instinctively rejects it. Whereas in other objects, it may be because although they have a Spiritual presence in a way, they do not have access to the 'void' created for the Stormlight to fill during acts of Investiture, which Kaladin and the gems do. This also stops normal humans inhaling Stormlight, while Kaladin can.

This really is just a recollection (and reorganisation) of the ideas proposed in my Vessels theory, which you might find really encompasses my view on all things Stormlight-transferal.

[hoser he/him]

...

Firstly, the Stormlight somehow comes with the Storm from the Origin. This is universally known (though it unsure as to the previous stages, or what the Origin really is).

Then, in the final stages of the truly dangerous part of the Storm, Kaladin experience the flow of Stormlight (described as a cold tingling in is spine, and the gem lighting up). It is this stage I am interested in.

...

Interesting. I've also been thinking about the highstorms. I agree that the stormlight is some sort of spiritual essence from the spiritual realm. You are presenting it as a quantity coming from the Origin as is universally known. Well, I missed it.

I've been thinking of it another way. I see the center of the highstorm as a weakening of the barrier between the physical and spiritual realms. The spiritual phenomena that we see during the highstorm would all be the result of this partial gateway traveling around the world. Tanavast's video log that Dalinar experiences during highstorms could be in the spiritual realm. The face that Kaladin sees during the highstorm could also be a spiritual manifestation. The gems (and maybe their spren) could catalyze the transfer of stormlight when the partial gateway passes through them.

The epigraph for chapter 61 is also interesting:

In the storm I awaken, falling, spinning, grieving.

From Kaladin's experience of the highstorm (chapter 35):

He hit hard. His vision flashed with sparkling lights that melded together and were followed by blackness.

Not unconsciousness, blackness.

Kaladin blinked. All was still. The storm was quiet, and everything was purely dark. ... The silence was unnatural.

He stumbled to his feet, ... . He couldn't feel his wounds. The pain just wasn't there.

... The air itself seemed to weigh less, as did he. He almost felt as if he could float away.

In that darkness, an enormous face appeared ...

Kaladin felt a deep chill - a rolling prickle of ice - scurry down his spine and through his entire body. The sphere suddenly burst to life in his hand, flaring with a sapphire glow. ...

There is actually a lot there. Kaladin doesn't infuse the stormlight, but he does seem to experience it from his head or the top of his spine throughout his body.

Hope this helps.

[Aeshdan he/him]

Now, say, the Stormlight, as I feel, is purely Spiritual. It would make sense. The gem, too, as do all things, must have a Spiritual presence, its own tiny void in the surrounding space of the Spiritual in which it is protected by its 'Spiritual defense' (which is incredibly low due to its lack of Cognitive power). Now, say that Stormlight, in order to affect, fill, or even just touch and object must in some way penetrate its Spiritual defense. Think of this as a Cognitive battle, but held in the Spiritual realm (and the Physical, due to the coloration of Light in a Physical sense). The Stormlight has a far higher power rating that the gem, and so is successful in penetrating its defenses and filling this void.

However, in humans, such as Kaladin, this doesn't happen. I propose that this is because the Cognitive presence of Kaladin is far stronger, even though he has a Spiritual 'void' in which the Stormlight can penetrate (think of the principles of diffusion), the Light cannot, for Kaladin instinctively rejects it. Whereas in other objects, it may be because although they have a Spiritual presence in a way, they do not have access to the 'void' created for the Stormlight to fill during acts of Investiture, which Kaladin and the gems do. This also stops normal humans inhaling Stormlight, while Kaladin can.

This really is just a recollection (and reorganisation) of the ideas proposed in my Vessels theory, which you might find really encompasses my view on all things Stormlight-transferal.

I have an alternate theory to propose. Alright, my theory is that, just as the molecular structure of a Feruchemical metal allows an attribute to "stick" to it, the gem's molecular structure acts as a tiny "hook" that catches a bit of stormlight. The bigger the gem, the more hooks, and the more light is caught.

Furthermore, I propose that what the Nahel bond does is that it alters a person's Spiritual/Cognitive presence to allow him to "grab" Stormlight. Because he can pull on Light a lot harder than gems, he can pull it out of gems.