Surgebinders

[Voidus]

I thought I'd just create a thread for this since I've seen a lot of theorising going on about it in other threads.

Right that being said lets get down to some theorizing.

We know for certain of three Surgebinders (I'm leaving Szeth out of this because we just have no idea what's going on there)

1. Kaladin - Windrunner.

2. Jasnah - Unknown order, one of her surges is transformation (speculated that her order is associated with Smokestone/Exhalation/Learned/Giving)

3. Shallan - Unknown order, one of her surges is also transformation. (Usually speculated that her order is associated with Garnet, Blood, Creative/Honest)

So the only other alternative I see for Jasnah is Wise/Careful but that has a body focus of oil which I can't find any clues on, however we do see mention of her taking a breath before soulcasting so Exhalation seems likely.

On Shallan I am torn between the Creative/Honest because those attributes seem to fit better and Brave/Obedient because that would give her a focus of the Soul and we know that she has thus far accessed her powers through telling truths (Revealing part of her soul) also if Jasnah is indeed Learned/Giving that would make all three (Kaladin, Jasnah and Shallan) the first three in the Ars Arcanum and this would also mean that if we DO count Szeth as a Surgebinder then the people controlling the first three sets are mentioned in order of appearance (Szeth, Jasnah (brief mention in the prologue) then Kaladin, and then Shallan.

So opinions on Shallan and Jasnahs orders? and anyone else you think might be a Surgebinder?

[Aradel he/him]

I lean towards creative/honest for Shallan, just because those traits are the ones Brandon stressed in TWoK. Some people have thought that Kaladin's brother was going to become a surgebinder but he died, so we may never know.

[LevenThumps]

I don't know who else is a Surgebinder, but Szeth's story is going to be an interesting one.

[Voidus]

I lean towards creative/honest for Shallan, just because those traits are the ones Brandon stressed in TWoK

I definitely agree that those are the qualities she seems to display more, but in terms of body focus I just can't see how blood works for her, the soul seems to me to be much more likely given the truthspren. (But then again Truthspren seems like it would be more likely to bond with someone honest) I alternate between those two a lot.

[Aradel he/him]

Brandon did make sure that blood was the first thing she soulcast, and the poison that led her to confessing everything to Jasnah had to be cast out of her blood.

[Voidus]

Yeah, but Kaladin didn't lash an inhalation as his first act as a windrunner so I think it is just likely coincidence.

The first thing she soulcast had to be one of the ten essences as they are the easiest and a garnet is simply what she had on hand, I don't think that that is enough to prove which order she belongs to. At the same time that does seem like the kind of foreshadowing that Brandon usually puts in to give us hints so I'm still completely unsure

[Telcontar]

yet another thread discussing the same stuff, as you say. no offense intended, I'm good at picking up stuff that has been discussed over and over again.

We know for certain of three Surgebinders (I'm leaving Szeth out of this because we just have no idea what's going on there)

I must step in here. Szeth is a Surgebinder. That's pretty sure. I'll remind you of the original BS-quote, found in the Interview Database.

Jay

Do Szeth and Kaladin both belong to the same order of knights radiant?

Brandon Sanderson (Goodreads)

Szeth isn't actually in an order of Knights Radiant. Something different is happening with Szeth that people have already begun to guess. And Kaladin isn't yet a Knight Radiant, but the powers he uses are those of the Windrunners, one of the orders of the Knights Radiant. Szeth is using the same power set. So your phrasing is accurate to that extent.

The only thing BS is saying is that Szeth is not in an order of KR. Szeth uses the same powerset. the SURGES. He performs Lashings, which are types of Surgebinding (Ars Arcanum). Again: not all Surgebinders are Knights Radiant.. I could explain this using a whole bunch of quotes, but do I really need to?

2. Jasnah - Unknown order, one of her surges is transformation (speculated that her order is associated with Smokestone/Exhalation/Learned/Giving)

There was a mistake in the first editions of tWoK, Learned/Giving belongs to order nr.5, just/confident is associated with order nr.2.

The discussion regarding Jasnah has taken place in here. That's also where I explained why Jasnah is in nr.5.

3. Shallan - Unknown order, one of her surges is also transformation. (Usually speculated that her order is associated with Garnet, Blood, Creative/Honest)

It is greater consensus that Shallan is of order nr.6, as you say. From what I've seen there isn't really anyone out there who questions that conclusion.

So the only other alternative I see for Jasnah is Wise/Careful but that has a body focus of oil which I can't find any clues on, however we do see mention of her taking a breath before soulcasting so Exhalation seems likely.

On Shallan I am torn between the Creative/Honest because those attributes seem to fit better and Brave/Obedient because that would give her a focus of the Soul and we know that she has thus far accessed her powers through telling truths (Revealing part of her soul) also if Jasnah is indeed Learned/Giving that would make all three (Kaladin, Jasnah and Shallan) the first three in the Ars Arcanum and this would also mean that if we DO count Szeth as a Surgebinder then the people controlling the first three sets are mentioned in order of appearance (Szeth, Jasnah (brief mention in the prologue) then Kaladin, and then Shallan.

So opinions on Shallan and Jasnahs orders? and anyone else you think might be a Surgebinder?

I posted an interpretation of the Ars Arcanum and how to read it here My main intention in that initial post was to determine how to determine KR-orders for Surgebinders.

I personally don't believe that the body focus plays a role in determining one's order.

[Odium's_Shard]

Telcontar, you have returned! You've missed out on LOADS of new upcoming theorem ideas! You really should check out my and Windrunner's posts and topics on General Theories for the biggest ones so far.

[Voidus]

The only thing BS is saying is that Szeth is not in an order of KR. Szeth uses the same powerset. the SURGES. He performs Lashings, which are types of Surgebinding (Ars Arcanum). Again: not all Surgebinders are Knights Radiant.. I could explain this using a whole bunch of quotes, but do I really need to?

Actually we do know that there are a round 30 or 10 different abilities on Roshar depending on how you count them, I would take this to mean that they have the same 10 surges but granted by 3 different systems as this seems most logical, it would seem to me that Szeth probably uses the third as yet unknown system (Surgebinding, Voidbing, ?????) and is given the same surges as a windrunner but granted in a different way.

There was a mistake in the first editions of tWoK, Learned/Giving belongs to order nr.5, just/confident is associated with order nr.2.

Yeah sorry about that, I know i've read that but I keep referencing the original that I have

It is greater consensus that Shallan is of order nr.6, as you say. From what I've seen there isn't really anyone out there who questions that conclusion.

But no reason to know one way or another, also I have seen plenty of speculation that she might be in other orders, which I mention in the next paragraph so I wouldn't say that it is the result of universal consensus

I personally don't believe that the body focus plays a role in determining one's order.

I have absolutely no idea what you mean by this... I'm not saying that some part of Kaladin is better at inhaling or anything and that is why he is a windrunner which is what you seem to be talking about. It's just about how you access stormlight, Kaladin inhales to draw stormlight into his body. Jasnah has been noted to take a deep breath before which has been speculated as meaning she draws by exhaling although that's a bit of a stretch. We know that Shallan accesses her powers by telling a personal truth or in other words showing a part of her soul, this seems like pretty good evidence for me as I can't find anything at all in the books that might reference her drawing through blood somehow.

Edit: On all this being discussed already, I do know that and I tried to condense most of what has already been speculated into one post but I think it's better for it to have its own thread so that other threads aren't all taken off on tangents.

Edited April 2, 2012 by Voidus

[Telcontar]

Telcontar, you have returned! You've missed out on LOADS of new upcoming theorem ideas! You really should check out my and Windrunner's posts and topics on General Theories for the biggest ones so far.

wow, you noticed my absence? I'm pretty occupied with preparations for some very important exams, that's why I'm not that active anymore. To really appreciate yours and Windrunner's work I'd have to spend way too much time here This topic is one I'm already pretty familiar with, so it does not take that much time to respond. I'll be back eventually. (Yeah, that's a threat )

Actually we do know that there are a round 30 or 10 different abilities on Roshar depending on how you count them, I would take this to mean that they have the same 10 surges but granted by 3 different systems as this seems most logical, it would seem to me that Szeth probably uses the third as yet unknown system (Surgebinding, Voidbing, ?????) and is given the same surges as a windrunner but granted in a different way.

Then why does Szeth think of himself as a Surgebinder, given his obvious knowledge about what he's doing? Okay I may be interpretating that, but he definitely implies that he is not a Voidbinder.

When you say that he is given the same surges but granted in a different way, you say yourself that Szeth is Surgebinding, only that his powers come from another source.

Let's make the connection with Inquisitors. They used Allomancy (and Feruchemy IIRC) but were granted these powers by Hemalurgy. Still they became Allomancers, they did what an Allomancer did. So even if they were granted their powers in a different way, they still used Allomancy. Szeth uses Stormlight in the same way as Kaladin does. Kaladin is Surgebinding. So maybe you're right, and Szeth is granted his powers in a different way, he is still Surgebinding.

I have absolutely no idea what you mean by this... I'm not saying that some part of Kaladin is better at inhaling or anything and that is why he is a windrunner which is what you seem to be talking about. It's just about how you access stormlight, Kaladin inhales to draw stormlight into his body. Jasnah has been noted to take a deep breath before which has been speculated as meaning she draws by exhaling although that's a bit of a stretch. We know that Shallan accesses her powers by telling a personal truth or in other words showing a part of her soul, this seems like pretty good evidence for me as I can't find anything at all in the books that might reference her drawing through blood somehow.

It's in my Ars Arcanum-post under the "body-focus" point.

I'm trying to say that the body focus cannot be used as a clue in order to determine what order a Surgebinder is going to end up in. Odium's Shard came up with a different approach as to why the body focus could be important in that same thread.

Also about Shallan accessing her powers. I don't know whether you have noticed my opinion about symbolheads, see the link in my signature. One of my favorite arguments in this forums yet

[Voidus]

Also about Shallan accessing her powers. I don't know whether you have noticed my opinion about symbolheads, see the link in my signature. One of my favorite arguments in this forums yet

I'm not sure what you meant in that (I'm assuming you're referencing the OP) sorry I just seem to have difficulty following the train of thoughts in your posts but you actually don't seem to give any evidence as to why Shallan had to tell a truth, if we discount the honesty part from the attributes then I can see no link between creativity and truth-telling in fact they are almost opposites, deceit involves creativity, telling the truth (being honest) does not and if we also discount the body focus then I can see no link at all.

It's in my Ars Arcanum-post under the "body-focus" point.

I'm trying to say that the body focus cannot be used as a clue in order to determine what order a Surgebinder is going to end up in. Odium's Shard came up with a different approach as to why the body focus could be important in that same thread.

I still don't quite get what you mean about the body focus not being able to be used as a clue, Kaladin and Szeth both very obviously have to inhale to gain access to stormlight, if the body focus was irrelevant then we need to explain:

1. Why don't other surgebinders (Jasnah, Shallan) need to do so.

2. Why this concept appears in Vorin theology, it seems a bit of a stretch for only one order to need to do something to gain access to stormlight and that order also needs to do something in line with their body focus to do so.

The only explanation I can see is that either this came into Vorin theology as a remembered fact about the KR which would still mean that each order did have something to do with the associated body focus, or else they just made it up and by some amazing coincidence they got it spot on with the windrunners and no one else. I do agree that some of them are a bit weird and it's difficult to see how something like hair or oil could be used to access stormlight but given my theory on Shallans being the soul and the truthspren asking for a truth for her to access it, that it doesn't have to be an obvious connection.

EDIT: Also I just remembered about this quote.

JOSH

Is the focus for Surgebinding the Body Focuses?

MI'CHELLE

Is the body the focus for Surgebinding, I think is what he meant.

[Eric's note: Well, I meant what I said, but whatever. ]

BRANDON SANDERSON

Oh, okay. The Physical?

MI'CHELLE

Yeah.

BRANDON SANDERSON

Surgebinding is... Yeah, kinda. That's a "yeah, kinda."

MI'CHELLE

We'll figure it out in more detail later.

So it's obviously at least related somehow, not just some Vorin symbology

Edited April 2, 2012 by Voidus

[CrazyRioter she/her]

I'm not sure what Brandon's answer there is supposed to mean......I'm not sure he understood the question.

[Telcontar]

I'm not sure what you meant in that (I'm assuming you're referencing the OP) sorry I just seem to have difficulty following the train of thoughts in your posts but you actually don't seem to give any evidence as to why Shallan had to tell a truth, if we discount the honesty part from the attributes then I can see no link between creativity and truth-telling in fact they are almost opposites, deceit involves creativity, telling the truth (being honest) does not and if we also discount the body focus then I can see no link at all.

the symbolhead-discussion starts not in the OP but later with post #17. Basically I am saying that Shallan needed to tell a truth so that her personal smybolhead can bond with her. BUT that bond would not be the Nahel bond. Sorry if I don't explain everything here, it just took me very long posts to explain my theories.

I still don't quite get what you mean about the body focus not being able to be used as a clue, Kaladin and Szeth both very obviously have to inhale to gain access to stormlight, if the body focus was irrelevant then we need to explain:

1. Why don't other surgebinders (Jasnah, Shallan) need to do so.

2. Why this concept appears in Vorin theology, it seems a bit of a stretch for only one order to need to do something to gain access to stormlight and that order also needs to do something in line with their body focus to do so.

The only explanation I can see is that either this came into Vorin theology as a remembered fact about the KR which would still mean that each order did have something to do with the associated body focus, or else they just made it up and by some amazing coincidence they got it spot on with the windrunners and no one else. I do agree that some of them are a bit weird and it's difficult to see how something like hair or oil could be used to access stormlight but given my theory on Shallans being the soul and the truthspren asking for a truth for her to access it, that it doesn't have to be an obvious connection.

your first question. Odium's Shard has opened a topic about this. His "vessel-theory" on General Theories. So far it's the best explanation I've seen.

your second question. it's theology. Theology by definition does not need to be logical.

as to your quote, there is a huge thread about focuses on Roshar on General Theories. Also, I'm with CrazyRioter that Brandon's answer could mean anything...

[Voidus]

the symbolhead-discussion starts not in the OP but later with post #17. Basically I am saying that Shallan needed to tell a truth so that her personal smybolhead can bond with her. BUT that bond would not be the Nahel bond. Sorry if I don't explain everything here, it just took me very long posts to explain my theories.

Sorry, it's taking me a while to read through all of the posts, I can see what you are saying but I still see no reason to believe that we should think they are not nahel-bond spren, it seems quite likely that Jasnah has never encountered these before, if they were simply a part of gaining access to Shadesmar then even if she couldn't see them she wouldn't be so surprised that Shallan saw them, also she said "They are related to what you do." I think she probably would have used an inclusive word if it was related to her as well, it also seems quite obvious that from hearing about Shallan seeing them that she deduced that they were not from the same order.

Odium's Shard has opened a topic about this. His "vessel-theory" on General Theories. So far it's the best explanation I've seen.

Which I still have a few problems with, if the temperature change were sufficient enough to fracture gemstones then there is absolutely no way a human could withstand that without a lot of physical alteration. Also as you pointed out in that thread, Shallan felt the same sensation of cold so she obviously held the stormlight at some point which means she needed to gain it which means (if inhaling is the only method of drawing stormlight) she needed to inhale, which she didn't.

your second question. it's theology. Theology by definition does not need to be logical.

I know many people who would like to dispute you on that and even if theology doesn't need to be logical then it still doesn't explain away why Windrunners are the only ones who need to inhale and the incredible coincidence of that being their body focus, given the range of possible actions that could possibly be used to draw stormlight (near-infinite) I find it highly improbable that Vorin theologians came up with the exact same body focus for the one order of KR that needed it without any influence.

[Odium's_Shard]

Odium's Shard has opened a topic about this. His "vessel-theory" on General Theories. So far it's the best explanation I've seen.

Which I still have a few problems with, if the temperature change were sufficient enough to fracture gemstones then there is absolutely no way a human could withstand that without a lot of physical alteration. Also as you pointed out in that thread, Shallan felt the same sensation of cold so she obviously held the stormlight at some point which means she needed to gain it which means (if inhaling is the only method of drawing stormlight) she needed to inhale, which she didn't.

Now that you have actively disputed my theorem, I am left with little choice but to parry with you, oh Voidus(bringer)!

I get where you are coming from with this. However, when Stormlight passes from the Storm to the gem, the gems don't crack, do they? Sure, we have no evidence (can someone look for a quote when Kaladin was barring the Highstorm and had the gem in his hand that filled with Stormlight?) that they actually get cold after storm->gem, and there might be something illogical going on with the Highstorms and the Origin, but it seems logical to suggest that they do feel the change, and they don't just shatter.

I also never (specifically) suggested anywhere in my post that they immediately shatter when used in Surgebinding straight from the medium (gem). They seem to gradually gain hairline fractures until it finally breaks. Seemingly, the more Stormlight taken (used) from them at any one time, the more damage (cold) they seem to take. When Jasnah took out the thieves by turning them into crystal, she must've expended alot of Stormlight from the gem to do so, and so it just burst. Seems logical. When Kaladin infuses things, he gets cold. When he used the Reverse Lashing in a fit of power, he got terribly cold (I believe it is mentioned) but obviously, that is of a lesser concern when he has a volley of arrows stuck in his arm.

However, it might cause permanent, or at least later, damage to him and his cells, such as stiffness, denaturing of enzymes, halt in production of protein, even tissue death. If he made a major expenditure of Light, ála Jasnah -> thief, then we may see the damage you describe, and the damage we see the gem take. Also, gems like that are far less resilient (and can't heal themselves) than humans, and so it is the accumulative use and damage that causes them to break, not the first use (unless that first use is firing twin bolts of pure awesome at fleeing thieves in order to turn their entire bodies into harmless crystallic lucentia).

I rest my case. Care to counter-attack? Please do. Telcontar said he can't play for now.

[Voidus]

I also never (specifically) suggested anywhere in my post that they immediately shatter when used in Surgebinding straight from the medium (gem). They seem to gradually gain hairline fractures until it finally breaks. Seemingly, the more Stormlight taken (used) from them at any one time, the more damage (cold) they seem to take. When Jasnah took out the thieves by turning them into crystal, she must've expended alot of Stormlight from the gem to do so, and so it just burst. Seems logical. When Kaladin infuses things, he gets cold. When he used the Reverse Lashing in a fit of power, he got terribly cold (I believe it is mentioned) but obviously, that is of a lesser concern when he has a volley of arrows stuck in his arm.

I'm pretty sure it was mentioned that they only crack when used to soulcast something large, not necessarily after a lot of use, I'll try and find some references for this.

On Kaladin though, I think that if he was using enough stormlight that it would crack a gem from the cold then the temperature would be far below freezing, unless the regenerative properties he gains are far better than I initially assumed I think he would still be dead, the human body is mostly water after all, the rapid freezing that all his cells would undergo would almost certainly destroy the cell membranes. In addition, Jasnah was wearing the soulcaster so being in that close proximity to something so cold, so often would probably cause some severe frostbite as she doesn't gain any of the physical enhancements.

Also, gems like that are far less resilient (and can't heal themselves) than humans, and so it is the accumulative use and damage that causes them to break, not the first use (unless that first use is firing twin bolts of pure awesome at fleeing thieves in order to turn their entire bodies into harmless crystallic lucentia).

Definitely agree with you here though, very good point but I still think that the temperatures needed to cause any fractures are still extreme, I'll have to do some research as that really isn't my area of expertise

I rest my case. Care to counter-attack? Please do. Telcontar said he can't play for now.

Seconded XD

[Aeshdan he/him]

We know that holding and expending a lot of Light does something to kaladin, because it says so in the final battle.

I don't think it's the temperature change that cracks the gem, though.

[Odium's_Shard]

I was pretty sure it was, if you have any other ideas, though, I'm all ears, because this is mere conjecture. Also, Voidus, it is possible to gain hairline fractures all the while, and then it one final Soulcasting, the gem may break, but then the entire cracking would be attributed to that one Soulcasting, whereas it was just that the gem had reached threshold breakage.

On Kaladin though, I think that if he was using enough stormlight that it would crack a gem from the cold then the temperature would be far below freezing, unless the regenerative properties he gains are far better than I initially assumed I think he would still be dead, the human body is mostly water after all, the rapid freezing that all his cells would undergo would almost certainly destroy the cell membranes. In addition, Jasnah was wearing the soulcaster so being in that close proximity to something so cold, so often would probably cause some severe frostbite as she doesn't gain any of the physical enhancements.

You state this despite of myself actually offering this feedback in my initial quote:

However, it might cause permanent, or at least later, damage to him and his cells, such as stiffness, denaturing of enzymes, halt in production of protein, even tissue death. If he made a major expenditure of Light, ála Jasnah -> thief, then we may see the damage you describe, and the damage we see the gem take.

However, about the Jasnah -> cold gem part of your reply, I still feel that although she might suffer some pain and discomfort, the damage is caused to the gem by the fact that it absorbs and negates some of the cold, which breaks some of the bonds within the gem. And so, by the time that any cold reaches Jasnah, then it may be significantly reduced. However, maybe this doesn't happen, and Jasnah does suffer some damage, like the Kaladin example I just quoted.

[Telcontar]

Does the gem get cold? Do you have any proof for that? (either of you )

I only recall the objects/subjects in which you put Stormlight getting cold. The stone Szeth Lashes lots of times, his clothes, Kaladin's shield. Dalinar when he is healed, Shallan when Soulcasting. I'd associate the cold with the use of Stormlight, not with the mere storage in gems.

Of course, as you say in your vessel-theory, Odium, Soulcasting may use the gem directly, so that could indicate why it breaks.

Still, gems in Shardplate break when the Plate is over-used. But there also, gems might be used directly.

[Voidus]

You state this despite of myself actually offering this feedback in my initial quote:

Sorry I meant to put something in there about that

I do agree that for smaller uses it would likely just cause minor damage that would build up over time but I think that for things like Kaladins massive reverse lashing (which I see as being nearly on par with lightning-soulcasting) that the damage would be severe and immediately noticeable, particularly if the effect of the cold is felt throughout the entire body, and not merely seeping through his skin like say a blizzard, all it takes is a couple of degrees difference in your overall body temperature to cause severe hypothermia, if his entire body dropped to a temperature low enough to cause even hairline fractures in gems then he is dead in seconds. To put it in a practical example think about it with absolutely no stormlight involved, the gems presumably do not crack even in winter when temperatures reaching freezing point so the temperature change induced by stormlight must be to at least this point, if a human body dropped in temperature that much you would be dead, even with a fairly decent resistance to cold.

[Odium's_Shard]

Colored gemstones can not withstand extreme temperature changes, or in other words, thermal shock.

The gemstones that do not do well in temperature changes are; emerald, quartz, garnet, kunzite, tanzanite, topaz, opal, peridot, and tourmaline. Be aware that if you have a ring with one of these stones and you are outside in 110 degree weather and then go into a building with temperatures of 100 degrees, you are putting your gem through a rapid temperature change. Never wear a piece of jewelry in a cold pool and then jump into a hot Jacuzzi. Even laying in the sun and then jumping into the pool can be a shock to a gemstone. These sudden changes in temperature can cause a gem to shatter.

Here is proof, from a gem-caring information website, that degree changes as small as 10F can cause a gem to shatter, or at least crack. This is just a difference of about 6 degrees Celsius . For a human body, sure, this may result in severe or mild hypothermia, but Kaladin rarely expends that amount of Stormlight at once, and if he did, the remaining Stormlight and its healing properties would help, as well as the adrenaline rush he felt in the battle to save Dalinar.

@Telcontar: We don't have evidence that the gem gets cold, but that Kaladin feels the cold when he expends Stormlight, we presume the gems must do to, if the directly expends the Stormlight. It is my pet theory that this is what causes them to crack during Soulcasting.

[Voidus]

That may be but even a difference of 6 degrees centigrade would result in pretty severe hypothermia with incredibly obvious symptoms (blue skin, puffy, numbness in the extremities, loss of balance and coordination) which we don't see, this may be because the stormlight buffers the bodies defences somewhat which I could probably accept in an instance as low as this but I think that this would be an absolute minimum temperature shock required to shatter a gem, something like a diamond can withstand much higher thermal shock than other gems and yet they too shatter. I'll have to do a bit of research and get back to you, I think it could be possible if all we had to go on were the gems you mentioned but if the temperature difference is high enough to fracture a diamond then I think it would still have some obvious effects. Now that I think about it it should probably mention somewhere in the book if one gem is more resistant then another, not necessarily but it's possible, I'll have a look through.

[Odium's_Shard]

What gem does Jasnah manage to shatter? Theoretically, it should be a diamond, but this entire gem -> Essence theory isn't confirmed. Also, diamond can withstand extreme drops of temperature, in the real world. But what if this 'cold' shiver isn't actually Physical cold, but instead something else entirely, that gives the feeling of cold. Maybe I'm wrong...

Kaladin states during his exposure to the Highstorm, at the moment when the gem fills with Stormlight, that he felt a cold shiver run down his spine. The expenditure of Stormlight leaves Szeth, at least, feeling cold. But as I stated, perhaps it isn't Physical cold. What sort of power could truly cause a diamond, the hardest known material in the world, to shatter (in fact, arguably, what causes it to be cut, but that's a different matter, presumably they use other diamonds)?

The power of a Shard! /sanity

So, allow me to explain. Instead of a Physical cold, what Kaladin actually experiences is a rupturing of his Spiritual defenses, in order to allow the Stormlight out of his vessel (body), using a Physical link (touch, ignoring Jasnah). And so his out defense is broken, but slowly heals. When Stormlight came out of the Storm, it pressured his Spiritual defense, meaning that he felt a wave of cold, but it was immediately healed. Maybe in the Spiritual Realm, outside of one's natural defenses, the power of the gathered Shard's, or remnants of their power, create freezing conditions. Allow case studies.

So, say a Shardblade, when unsummoned, resides in the Spiritual Realm. They freeze, of course. But when the user summons them, and they are taken in by their Spiritual defense, the temperature change is sudden. This means they have dew droplets on them, condensed water. Also, could explain why the Shardblade is summoned using the heart. Say the body is linked to the Physical, you brain to the Cognitive (makes sense), and you heart the Spiritual. This allows it to govern compassion and the like, and also explains why Honor's magic relies on what is in your heart, as in your truest personality. And so, in ten of its beats, it can summon the Shardblade.

And so now that diamond. How does Jasnah shoot her powers of Transformation at the two thieves? Time for a crazy theory. We all love them. Best of all, as far as I can see, this is plausible.

The diamond chip is the lowest form of wealth denomination (?). I think. And so, it is plausible that even thieves have them on their person, as a small portion of tiny wealth. And so Jasnah picks Lucentia for the Essence. It could have been anything. She could have set them on fire, as the other one, or maybe into a rush of black smoke. Yet, significantly she picked the diamond for this particular Casting. Why?

Because Soulcasting work through small 'wormholes' in the Cognitive Realm. This is where it all gets a bit whacky, but I swear this can't just be a coincidence. I might even post it as an actual theory. In my mind this explain's Jasnah's ranged Soulcasting much better than 'Travel' can. So, lets go to the basics. If you are familiar with my vessel theory, good, if not, it might be worthwhile.

Soulcasting works like this, in my vessel theory. You go to the Cognitive Realm, offer up a certain type of Stormlight (depending on the gem used) to a certain object as a 'bribe', and the object follows your command, and using the type of Light, changes itself into the correct Essence and is 'freed' (presumably the new Essence has a new Cognitive presence, so the other isn't needed any more). So, what if in the Cognitive Realm, the gem has to be connected to you and to the object you Soulcast. This is clear. This way, the Stormlight can breach your Spiritual defense and be transferred, as I stated above.

So, if in the Cognitive Realm, two gems were connected, ie, the passage of Stormlight is allowed between them? Jasnah, touching diamond on hand, thief touching diamond chip in pocket. The gem's Spirit defense stretches out, connects to the other diamond's defense (in a way only two similar gems can) and the injects the Stormlight between them, so Jasnah is touching a gem which is touching a thief. And then Soulcasting works as normal from there. Obviously, this extended transferral requires a far greater breach of the gem's defenses, and so a much high portion of the Power in the Spiritual Realm is allowed to seep in at once, thus making the diamond cold enough to completely shatter.

It makes sense. You know it does. Tell me if there are any problems with this theorem, and I will list them here. If I find none, then I will post it as a full theory in General Theories. Thanks in advance for your feedback.

[Telcontar]

I'm back! But only for this post, I just don't feel very much like studying right now...

Not sure to post it here or in your ongoing new theory or in your vessel-theory. Anyway, you'll find it here, I'm sure of it.

Jasnah shatters a smokestone while Soulcasting the boulder, she shatters another smokestone when attacking the burglars.

About her Soulcasting at a distance.

I believe that a Soulcaster has to touch an object in the physical realm in order to find the corresponding cognitive aspect in Shadesmar. That's why the goblet's cognitive aspect (CA) ie the bead, was found in Shallan's hand. If you wouldn't touch the object in the physical realm, you would have to search for the CA in an ocean of beads. Pretty complicated, I'd say.

Now. What about people. When you actually acces Shadesmar via symbolhead, you appear as yourself over there. However there is no sign of other people. It has been theorized that the flames we've seen in Shadesmar are people. Or to be more accurate, the flames are the cognitive representation of people. But if this is true doesn't really matter. All that I'm trying to say is that people might not have a bead.

This is because people are sentient, their CA is much bigger than the CA of a goblet. Or at least, one couldn't say that there is an isolated CA but one linked with a spiritual aspect, the soul of the person.

So, if you'd want to Soulcast a person into an Essence, you would not look out for a bead but something different, for the sake of simplicity I will use the flame. While there is a whole ocean of beads, there is not barely that much flames. So it would be much easier to find those without touching people in the physical realm.

What Jasnah would then appear like this: eliminate two of the present flames in the usual Soulcasting-way. Then Soulcast the remaining two flames.

The realmatic explanation:

A Binding can be done in the physical or the cognitive realm. Gravity-Bindings and Pressure-Bindings (ie the Lashings) take place in the physical realm. Szeth and Kaladin infuse objects/subjects with Stormlight, manipulating the gravitational force, which is physical. I know that the author of the WoK Ars Arcanum talks about the spiritual link, but I'd say that even in the Cosmere, gravity is a physical thing. Btw, that author does not need to have an academic degree in physics...

A Soulcasting takes place in the cognitive realm, obviously. What a Soulcaster does is creating a link between the CA of the gem and the CA of the object/subject you want to Transform. This link/Binding will permit Stormlight to pass from the gem to the object/subject.

Everything in the cosmere has a CA. So gems have one. The CA of a rosharian gem is special in that it is linked with an Essence. So when the Soulcaster Binds the gem to the object/subject, the CA of the gem determines the outcome of the Casting because the Stormlight is filtered through the CA of the gem when it comes from the physical realm to Shadesmar.

Back to the origin of the discussion, "gems break when they get cold".

Bindings that take place in the physical realm don't need a gem directly. Kaladin and Szeth withdraw the Stormlight. That is because the Stormlight is already in the physical realm, and you need a way to get it into stuff. That's why it has to pass through a person.

If you Soulcast something, you Bind the gem to a CA. The Stormlight is used directly out of the gem, causing the gem to get cold.

[Odium's_Shard]

About your connotation 'gravity is a Physical force in the Cosmere', where did you get this idea from? No offence, but I plan to blow this one out of the water, if only to aid my own argument!

You see, my personal theory (meaning you don't have to agree all the time, only to argue against my posts), is that ALL magical systems lend to the Spiritual Realm. Using simply Realmatic Theorem, the cycle would go like so (I'm sure you've seen these in my posts before, Telcontar):

Physical Touch -> Cognitive Command -> Spiritual 'Transferal of Stormlight'

Spiritual 'Bending of the light' -> Cognitive Push -> Spiritual Effect

And so, the Surge Gravity and the Force Gravity are two different things. At no point during the cycle is gravity directly manipulated through a Physical ramification, it is the Spiritual 'prismatic effect' (new word for 'bending of the light') that lends power (of a Shard, Stormlight) to alter this. Gravity the force isn't altered, as some people may think, or else the entire world'd gravity would be changed, as well as perhaps the Cosmere's, and it is clear this doesn't happen. I think Brandon has said it is the person's 'links' to gravity that are altered. And if Stormlight is (and I'm sure of this, almost certain) taken to be a Spiritual force, which is only translatable as 'power' on a Spiritual level (as in the capture of Stormlight being filling a 'Spiritual' void, and the glowing effect a mere Physical side effect [not an actual Physical presence of Light]), this means that in order for it to affect this 'link' and exploit the ramifications, then this 'link' has to exist solely as a Spiritual link (think: if it existed on all planes, the process of changing gravity with Stormlight would be like cutting only one rope in a braid of three: the link still holds).

And so the altering of Gravity with this Surge is simply an affectation of 'bent Light' directing this 'gravity link' in a Spiritual plane.