Auger's Insanity?

[Trusk'our he/him]

The effects of using Allomantic gold have been described as being "emotionally stressful" and can be quite jarring to the Auger.

My question is, does this emotional stress cause cracks in the Spiritweb at all? After all, those that are mentally unstable are able to have Shards and Cognitive Shadows communicate with them, so would an Auger who used their powers on occasion be susceptible to this?

[NameIess]

I doubt it. The examples of people with enough instability to be contacted by shards/cognitive shadows that we've seen are either insane or have gone through extremely traumatic events that could have led to insanity. I doubt even Miles's A-gold visions were traumatic enough to cause those kinds of cracks.

[Treamayne]

6 hours ago, Trusk'our said:

The effects of using Allomantic gold have been described as being "emotionally stressful" and can be quite jarring to the Auger.

My question is, does this emotional stress cause cracks in the Spiritweb at all? After all, those that are mentally unstable are able to have Shards and Cognitive Shadows communicate with them, so would an Auger who used their powers on occasion be susceptible to this?

Doubtful. We see Miles burn it in AoL, and he mentions he burns it, if not frequently, then certainly routinely (AoL ch 15):

Spoiler

Either way, he liked to think that burning his gold on occasion helped him—that each time he did it, it let him take the best of what he had been and mix it with the best of what he could be. An alloy of himself, then.

We see Vin burn it, and while it was unsettling enough that she vowed to never burn gold again, it was not nearly as damaging as her encounter with Straff in WoA. SHe was unsettled, and moved on (without ever even having a call-back to the experiece in the rest of the trilogy). For comparison-Straff, after the Duralumin Soothing, has repeated flashbacks and shudders over the event (which seem much more indicative of emotional damage from Allomancy):

Spoiler

 WoA Ch 27

Quote

She smiled, extinguishing her tin. Then she burned duralumin and Soothed Straff’s emotions with explosive pressure, wiping away all capacity for feeling within him. His shadow stumbled beneath the attack.

Her brass was gone a moment later, and she turned on her tin again, watching the black patterns on the canvas.

“She’s powerful, Father,” Elend said. “She’s more powerful than any Allomancer you’ve known. She killed the Lord Ruler. She was trained by the Survivor of Hathsin. And if you kill me, she’ll kill you.”

Straff righted himself, and the tent fell silent again.

<snip>

That awful sensation returned. The sense of nothingness, the horrible knowledge that someone else had complete and total control over his emotions. Nobody should have that much power over him. Especially not Elend.

He should be dead. He came right to me. And I let him go.

And thereafter, every time rememebers the experience the feeling returns and he shivers

WoA Ch 39:

Quote

Even with the troops, Straff felt exposed. It wasn’t just the mists, and it wasn’t just the darkness. He could still remember her touch on his emotions.

“You’ve failed me, Zane,” Straff said.

<snip>

The protection provided by a Mistborn outweighed the danger of Zane’s insanity.

Barely.

“You needn’t worry, Father,” Zane said. “The city will still be yours.”

“It will never be mine as long as that woman lives,” Straff said. He shivered.

<snip>

Straff frowned. “Could this woman of yours slip the Mistborn something?”

Penrod paled slightly. “I . . .don’t think that would be wise, my lord. Besides, you know Mistborn constitutions.”

Perhaps she really is incapacitated, Straff thought. If we moved in . . . The chill of her touch on his emotions returned. Numbness. Nothingness.

“You needn’t fear her so, my lord,” Penrod said.

Straff raised an eyebrow. “I’m not afraid, I’m wary.

WoA Ch 55

Quote

An arrow suddenly shot from the midst of the charging koloss.

But, koloss didn’t use bows. Besides, the monsters were still far away, and that object was far too big to be an arrow anyway. A rock, perhaps? It seemed larger than . . .

It began to fall down toward Straff’s army. Straff stared into the sky, riveted by the strange object. It grew more distinct as it fell. It wasn’t an arrow, nor was it a rock.

It was a person—a person with a flapping mistcloak.

“No!” Straff yelled. She’s supposed to be gone!

 

Probably the most reliable reason it would not cause permanent damage comes from the HoA Annotations to Ch 26:

Spoiler

Brandon Sanderson

Allomancy's Mental Effects

An interesting side note is to watch how Allomancy—all of its forms—enhances the mind in some way. Though the original concept for the magic system focused on different powers—some physical, some mental—the final product always had a mental component. Notice how, when burning tin, Spook is more able to focus on solitary conversations in the room. Or how his mind can filter out the mist or the cloth he wears. Burning pewter or tin will also make the mind more alert and awake. Burning atium not only lets one see a little bit into the future, but also lets one process that information in a useful way.

The mind is such a big part of what makes us who we are. I wanted Allomancy to impact the characters—to have an effect you could see on the minds of those using it. As I've stated, one of the places where books can outshine television or movies is in the ability to see exactly what is happening inside a character's thoughts and emotions. By adding a mental component to each of the Allomantic powers, my hope was to play off of this strength of the written form.

The Hero of Ages Annotations (Sept. 22, 2009)

I find it difficult to beleive that if all Allomantic Metals enhance the Allomancer to make them able to use the power, that Gold would somehow be able to damage the Allomancer instead. It might be uncomfortable or disturbing*, but not damaging. . .

Spoiler

Personally, I think most find Gold so disturbing because of how easily humans lie to themselves, especially about themselves. Gold shadows kind of force you to confront things you might rather avoid.

 

[Quantus he/him]

11 hours ago, Treamayne said:

Doubtful. We see Miles burn it in AoL, and he mentions he burns it, if not frequently, then certainly routinely (AoL ch 15):

  Hide contents

Either way, he liked to think that burning his gold on occasion helped him—that each time he did it, it let him take the best of what he had been and mix it with the best of what he could be. An alloy of himself, then.

We see Vin burn it, and while it was unsettling enough that she vowed to never burn gold again, it was not nearly as damaging as her encounter with Straff in WoA. SHe was unsettled, and moved on (without ever even having a call-back to the experiece in the rest of the trilogy). For comparison-Straff, after the Duralumin Soothing, has repeated flashbacks and shudders over the event (which seem much more indicative of emotional damage from Allomancy):

  Reveal hidden contents

 WoA Ch 27

And thereafter, every time rememebers the experience the feeling returns and he shivers

WoA Ch 39:

WoA Ch 55

 

Probably the most reliable reason it would not cause permanent damage comes from the HoA Annotations to Ch 26:

  Reveal hidden contents

Brandon Sanderson

Allomancy's Mental Effects

An interesting side note is to watch how Allomancy—all of its forms—enhances the mind in some way. Though the original concept for the magic system focused on different powers—some physical, some mental—the final product always had a mental component. Notice how, when burning tin, Spook is more able to focus on solitary conversations in the room. Or how his mind can filter out the mist or the cloth he wears. Burning pewter or tin will also make the mind more alert and awake. Burning atium not only lets one see a little bit into the future, but also lets one process that information in a useful way.

The mind is such a big part of what makes us who we are. I wanted Allomancy to impact the characters—to have an effect you could see on the minds of those using it. As I've stated, one of the places where books can outshine television or movies is in the ability to see exactly what is happening inside a character's thoughts and emotions. By adding a mental component to each of the Allomantic powers, my hope was to play off of this strength of the written form.

The Hero of Ages Annotations (Sept. 22, 2009)

I find it difficult to beleive that if all Allomantic Metals enhance the Allomancer to make them able to use the power, that Gold would somehow be able to damage the Allomancer instead. It might be uncomfortable or disturbing*, but not damaging. . .

  Reveal hidden contents

Personally, I think most find Gold so disturbing because of how easily humans lie to themselves, especially about themselves. Gold shadows kind of force you to confront things you might rather avoid.

 

Sure, but causing Stress and causing Cracks are different things. It is Stressful to be confronted with an alternate version of yourself, including Thinking the alternate's Thoughts, and can potentially be very traumatic depending on your Choices and how much dissonance the differences cause.  If the Stress is bad enough the Auger might break and then you'd have the Cracks, but it would be as individual as PTSD.   Miles was content with himself (villainous as that may be), Vin too.  But if a person who'd betrayed all their friends and nation and species and become a shards slave were faced with the version of themself who hadnt nuked their whole life, I could se it being quite traumatic indeed.  As a completely random example.  

[Treamayne]

1 hour ago, Quantus said:

If the Stress is bad enough the Auger might break and then you'd have the Cracks

If the person is an Auger - they already have cracks. That's what Snapping is - there is no Allomancy without cracks in the spiritweb (that is then filled by the power of Preservation - making you an Allomancer). (SA Spoilers)

Spoiler

Just like a person needs to have cracks in their spiritweb for a Spren to form the Nahel Bond. Like Syl told Kaladin "they were all broken"
WoR Ch 68:

Spoiler

“I’m not some glorious knight of ancient days. I’m a broken man. Do you hear me, Syl? I’m broken.”

She zipped up to him and whispered, “That’s what they all were, silly.” She streaked away.

WoB:

Quote

AndrewStirlingMacDonald (paraphrased)

Is being a little bit crazy a prerequisite to becoming a Knight Radiant?

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

Well, so, for many of the cosmere magics to work, you have to... it has to get into the soul somehow. Right? Sometimes you ram it in by spiking someone else's soul and ripping off a piece and sticking it into yours. Sometimes, it just seeps in the cracks. Sometimes the bond allows it to kind of bypass some of this, but it's usually traumatic experience. So crazy is not required, but there's got to be a place for the magic to go, to get in.

Shadows of Self Boston signing (Oct. 14, 2015)

 

I'm not sure what point the OP is trying to drive toward with Spiritual cracks. Maybe I could answer in more detail if I understood why it matters if cognitive dissonance in an Auger causes additional "cracks" or mental issues. . . 

Edited January 23 by Treamayne
SPAG

[Quantus he/him]

37 minutes ago, Treamayne said:

If the person is an Auger - they already have cracks. That's what Snapping is - there is no Allomancy without cracks in the spiritweb (that is then filled by the power of Preservation - making you an Allomancer). (SA Spoilers)

  Reveal hidden contents

Just like a person needs to have cracks in their spiritweb for a Spren to form the Nahel Bond. Like Syl told Kaladin "they were all broken"
WoR Ch 68:

  Reveal hidden contents

“I’m not some glorious knight of ancient days. I’m a broken man. Do you hear me, Syl? I’m broken.”

She zipped up to him and whispered, “That’s what they all were, silly.” She streaked away.

WoB:

 

I'm not sure what point the OP is trying to drive toward with Spiritual cracks. Maybe I could answer in more detail if I understood why it matters if cognitive dissonance in an Auger causes additional "cracks" or mental issues. . . 

Fair point, though a person can gain Allomancy without Snapping, via Hemalurgy or Medallions.  But regardless of whether it is natural or not, the spiritweb Cracks that represent Snapping make you increasingly vulnerable to influence by any Shard, traditional maddness is one such example, and there are degrees of it. So the question is whether Overuse will make somebody More than they were already (prior to or separate from the actual Savantism tipping point).  

[Treamayne]

9 minutes ago, Quantus said:

gain Allomancy without Snapping, via Hemalurgy or Medallions.

Well, Medallions (though we don't know much about that yet). Hemalurgy also causes cracks. Much larger cracks actually, which is why The Flaw is more pronounced in Hemalurgic constructs. It was in the WoB I posted, but more explicitely stated here:

Spoiler

 

Quote

 

Djarskublar (paraphrased)

So I could be wrong, but a Hemalurgic spike, when you use it and become a savant it does damage to your Spiritweb, right?

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

Yes Hemalurgy always hurts you.

Djarskublar (paraphrased)

Okay, so would it be a positive effect, negative effect...? Because I was like, it gives you cracks in your Spiritweb.

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

It does give you cracks in your Spiritweb.

Dark Talent release party (Sept. 6, 2016)

 

Note - long WoB - Edited to the relavant bits

 

[Quantus he/him]

23 minutes ago, Treamayne said:

Well, Medallions (though we don't know much about that yet). Hemalurgy also causes cracks. Much larger cracks actually, which is why The Flaw is more pronounced in Hemalurgic constructs. It was in the WoB I posted, but more explicitely stated here:

  Reveal hidden contents

 

Note - long WoB - Edited to the relavant bits

 

Precisely, and regardless of how the cracks are gained, the effects and the control granted to the Shards is a spectrum and a scale, so any source of emotional stress can increase the effect if it's significant enough for that individual to cause cracks.  For example, it typically takes multiple spikes to allow Ruin significant control of an individual, but one spike plus a lot of emotional damage could probably do it too.  

[Treamayne]

1 minute ago, Quantus said:

Precisely, and regardless of how the cracks are gained, the effects and the control granted to the Shards is a spectrum and a scale, so any source of emotional stress can increase the effect if it's significant enough for that individual to cause cracks.  For example, it typically takes multiple spikes to allow Ruin significant control of an individual, but one spike plus a lot of emotional damage could probably do it too.  

With the caveat that extreme emotional states also prevent the Control. So, it seems likely to me that it's less about "emotional stress" than it is "permanent emotional/cognitive damage."

Which is why I said my opinion was unlikely - no matter how much distress the Goldshadows cause in the moment, the likelihood of permanent damage is low (as mentioned above).

Could it happen? Probably. Especially if somebody was making that their goal on purpose.

Is it likely to happen to the average Auger? Doubtful.