Ideas to ponder for Stormlight 2

[Bunyod]

Hi all,

This is my first post here. Thought I'd share my opinions on The Way of Kings which need to be addressed in Stormlight 2.

If you think, I made a mistake in my perceptions please correct me.

1) IMHO, Stormlight 2 needs to give us reasons why Jah Keved didn't use a perfect opportunity to strike and conquer Alethkar. Think about it. Jah Keved had these advantages:

- Time. 6 years Alethkar's main army was gone.

- Power. Jah Keved has the same amount of shards as Alethkar

- Internal instability of Alethkar. Alethkar's remaining armies are fighting with each other.

Therefore, in order not to perceive Jah Keved's nobility as idiots, Stormlight 2 needs to give some serious explanation as to why Jah Keved didn't attack Alethkar.

2) Kaladin, during his flight within the storm sees that almost everywhere in Roshar there are wars. We know that Roshar's weather makes it very challenging for agricultural crops to grow. More wars -> more soldiers -> less farmers. Therefore, Stormlight 2 needs to give us more FOOD soulcasters. My perception (I may be wrong) from Stormlight 1 was that soulcasters were very rare items.

3) Dalinar is a great general. If we need to continue to think about him as a great general, Stormlight 2 needs to give us a reason why didn't he take away all the shards from high princes when he was conquering them with his elder brother. As the easiest way to unite Alethkar was to get all the shardblades in 1 army.

4) Alethkar has around 150 thousands of troops in Shattered Plains. The first book states that each week high princes fight mini wars on chasms. So, reading through the casualty reports in the book, we may assume that at least 1000 Parshendi dies each week. 1000*55*6years=330 thousands. So we may assume that during these 6 years 330 000 Parshendies died. Ok, let's take half of it. Let's assume that 165 000 Parshendies died. Even this number is too huge. First, where Parshendi gets food for this kind of number of soldiers. Second, Parshendies are great warriors and they have an ability to jump chasms. If they had this kind of huge army, why didn't they use their advantage to jump the chasms and destroyed the Alethkarian Army? Therefore, Stormlight 2 needs to give us some more explanation.

Thanks in advance,

[Voidus]

Hey welcome to the forums!

Let's get right to it.

1) I did think about this as well, my only conclusion is that either 1) they have some kind of treaty that they intend to honour. or (more likely) 2) They were waiting til their half-shards were fully developed to minimize casualties. We also don't know the rest of their military strength, which might be to small to take Alethkar safely.

2) I don't think that soulcasters are THAT rare, I would think that each army has its own batch to provide food. Farmers could probably make up for the rest, just because there are a lot of wars doesn't mean that recruiting has been that bad everywhere, presumably the monarchs all know not to take too many farmers unless they also have soulcasters to support.

3) If they stole shards from the High Princes I don't think they would have agreed to the treaty as easily

4) The food question has been raised In Universe, they assumed they soulcasters as well although they could have just a similar system of their own that is seperate. On numbers, I think pretty much every Parshendi participates in the war, we have even seen children in their armies. So this doesn't seem too unreasonable.

EDIT: Sorry forgot about the end of point 4.

4) part 2- I would say they don't attack because the parshendi fight as individuals, if they had a large open field where they could field large amounts of troops then the Alethi have the advantage due to superior tactics.

Edited March 24, 2012 by Voidus

[master]

1) IMHO, Stormlight 2 needs to give us reasons why Jah Keved didn't use a perfect opportunity to strike and conquer Alethkar. Think about it. Jah Keved had these advantages:

- Time. 6 years Alethkar's main army was gone.

- Power. Jah Keved has the same amount of shards as Alethkar

- Internal instability of Alethkar. Alethkar's remaining armies are fighting with each other.

Therefore, in order not to perceive Jah Keved's nobility as idiots, Stormlight 2 needs to give some serious explanation as to why Jah Keved didn't attack Alethkar.

even if there armies are out of the way they could still meet the invaders halfway. whts I don't understand is why they didn't conquer alethkar when they were separate princedoms.

2) Kaladin, during his flight within the storm sees that almost everywhere in Roshar there are wars. We know that Roshar's weather makes it very challenging for agricultural crops to grow. More wars -> more soldiers -> less farmers. Therefore, Stormlight 2 needs to give us more FOOD soulcasters. My perception (I may be wrong) from Stormlight 1 was that soulcasters were very rare items.

Thats not how I understood it. farming wouldnt be very difficult if plants could move out of the way of storms. and its probably even easier without any plowing nessesary. in one of kalidins first few chapters he describes planting as spreading sap [for nutrients] with seeds mixed in. Also the deworming seems to be very easy, jsut time consuming. or in other words, protection houses from storms would be harder than protecting crops from storms.

3) Dalinar is a great general. If we need to continue to think about him as a great general, Stormlight 2 needs to give us a reason why didn't he take away all the shards from high princes when he was conquering them with his elder brother. As the easiest way to unite Alethkar was to get all the shardblades in 1 army.

vorin culture says that if you kill a shardholder you get his shard or they give it to you willingly. If he asked I doubt they would have given them up and I think that the plan was to unite alethkar, not conquer and slaughter the ruling class. or even a small fraction of the ruling class.

\

4) Alethkar has around 150 thousands of troops in Shattered Plains. The first book states that each week high princes fight mini wars on chasms. So, reading through the casualty reports in the book, we may assume that at least 1000 Parshendi dies each week. 1000*55*6years=330 thousands. So we may assume that during these 6 years 330 000 Parshendies died. Ok, let's take half of it. Let's assume that 165 000 Parshendies died. Even this number is too huge. First, where Parshendi gets food for this kind of number of soldiers. Second, Parshendies are great warriors and they have an ability to jump chasms. If they had this kind of huge army, why didn't they use their advantage to jump the chasms and destroyed the Alethkarian Army? Therefore, Stormlight 2 needs to give us some more explanation.

first, they probably get the food from soulcasting and the gems to power the soulcasts from chasmfiends.

secondly: good point.

[Bunyod]

Thanks for your answers.

Here is one more thing to look at:

Every World has Good vs Evil. And as such, every culture has an idea who's good and who's evil. However, it is strange that Alethkar people know that there is Almighty, but they have no idea who's Odium. And the book 1 does not give any alternative for Odium, i.e. people do not know who is their Evil N1.

Or did I miss some mentioning of that?

[Voidus]

I'd say that the Voidbringers serve that purpose, not a single entity but they serve the same purpose.

[Bunyod]

One thing which is of great interest to me is the logic behind Szeth's actions. He seems to be a person who contradicts himself greatly. We know that he does not like killings as he worked for some farmers for 6 years and kept low profile. However, when given chances to stop his killings (after he killed Galivar/after his master was killed by thugs), he refused to act on it properly and end his life.

Szeth is He who takes away not adds -> He killed plenty of people and does not Like it at all -> The best way to end taking away a lot of lives is to end his life -> And he didn't use his chance to do that.

Therefore, he contradicts himself greatly.

EDIT-

One theory which unites the Wheel of Time and The Way of Kings:Book 1 of WOT makes us think of Baalzamon as the Main Evil guy - the dark one, which was proven wrong in later books as we found out that Baalzamon was an ordinar Ishamael.<br style="color: rgb(28, 40, 55); font-size: 13px; line-height: 19px; background-color: rgb(250, 251, 252); "><br style="color: rgb(28, 40, 55); font-size: 13px; line-height: 19px; background-color: rgb(250, 251, 252); ">Book 1 of Stormlight Archives makes us think that "Almighty" is dead. I hope that it will be proven wrong in later books and we'll find out that "Almighty of the First Book" was one of the Heralds.

EDIT 2-

Is there a theory here which assumes Wit=One of the Heralds? If there is one, please let me know, I'd like to take a look at it.

Edited March 28, 2012 by zas678
Please don't double post unless it's been a long time. Just edit it instead.

[Voidus]

I won't post any spoilers if I can avoid it so first thing's first, have you read any of Brandons other works?

ps. Try not to make double posts, just edit your previous post if you want to add anything

[Bunyod]

I won't post any spoilers if I can avoid it so first thing's first, have you read any of Brandons other works?

ps. Try not to make double posts, just edit your previous post if you want to add anything

I've read The Gathering Storms and Towers of Midnight. The Wheel of time books.

And just finished reading Mistborn 1. If by spoiler you mean Hoid exists in each of Sanderson's books I know about it. And I know that all of Sanderson's fantasy Worlds exist in one universe - Cosmere.

[Voidus]

Ah, well then yeah Hoid was Wit in the stormlight archives so I doubt that he'd also be one of the Heralds, he has his own thing going on.

The Almighty is the Shard Honour, so once again not one of the Heralds. As for Szeth he is forbidden to take his own life, otherwise he would.

[Bunyod]

As for Szeth he is forbidden to take his own life, otherwise he would.

But nothing stopped him from letting himself be killed in order to stop his massacres.

[Voidus]

He can't do anything to allow himself to be harmed, it is part of the nature of his suffering, that's why he takes of the white clothes after killing the king, so no one will recognise and kill him.

[Sweetness]

I've read The Gathering Storms and Towers of Midnight. The Wheel of time books.

Those aren't really Brandon's books, he just wrote them.

[Windrunner]

You mention the Parshendi not attacking the Alethi army. Something odd is going on there, which we've noticed around the forums. The Parshendi are often more honorable then the Alethi. They only bring only as many armies as the Alethi do, they are easier on injured soldiers, and they never follow retreating Alethi troops to harass them back to the war camps.

Szeth is a special case. I get the sense that he doesn't agree with his punishment, but is too honorable to disobey. Szeth cannot do anything stupid or allow himself to be killed. I believe whatever oath he has sworn requires him to do his utmost that he survive, and not be fool-hardy. For example he certainly he could have attacked the King of Jah Keved without his Shardblade, but doing so would increase his likelihood of dying, which contradicts his oath, so he is obligated to use his blade. That is why he begs for an equal opponent, so he can lose a fair fight. My only question having to do with Szeth is about his oathstone. Is there a magical bond that compels Szeth to follow the commands of it's holder, or is he just honor bound to do so?

Also welcome to the forums! Once you read the other cosmere books you'll be hooked for life, if you're not already.

Edited March 24, 2012 by Windrunner

[Bunyod]

Those aren't really Brandon's books, he just wrote them.

wow, really?

[Odium's_Shard]

Your point about the number of Parshendi warriors is interesting, but there have been theories that suggest that the reason they don't let people touch their dead is that they might be able to regenerate.

Also, there aren't contingents of Soulcasters within each war camp on the Shattered Plains. Elhokar owns all Soulcasters and charges for the Highprinces to use them. This is the Alethi War Tax (in effect).

[Bunyod]

You mention the Parshendi not attacking the Alethi army. Something odd is going on there, which we've noticed around the forums. The Parshendi are often more honorable then the Alethi. They only bring only as many armies as the Alethi do, they are easier on injured soldiers, and they never follow retreating Alethi troops to harass them back to the war camps.

Szeth is a special case. I get the sense that he doesn't agree with his punishment, but is too honorable to disobey. Szeth cannot do anything stupid or allow himself to be killed. I believe whatever oath he has sworn requires him to do his utmost that he survive, and not be fool-hardy. For example he certainly he could have attacked the King of Jah Keved without his Shardblade, but doing so would increase his likelihood of dying, which contradicts his oath, so he is obligated to use his blade. That is why he begs for an equal opponent, so he can lose a fair fight. My only question having to do with Szeth is about his oathstone. Is there a magical bond that compels Szeth to follow the commands of it's holder, or is he just honor bound to do so?

Also welcome to the forums! Once you read the other cosmere books you'll be hooked for life, if you're not already.

Thanks!

Yes, there are definitely strange things going on in Shattered Plains.

- Parshendies' refusal to say the reason behind Gavilar's murder,

- Parshendies' strange honorable tactics of battle,

- Parshendies' strange use of their shardblades,

There should be a huge reason for all these things. And only Stormlight 2 may give us clue.

P.S.Possible theory:

Alethkar has a border with shattered plains. And yet only 6 years ago Gavilar discovered the parshendy. What if Odium through King of Kharbranth (his pet project) created these Parshendy (just recently in large numbers) with some magic and now the king of Kharbranth commands Parshendi. And they do whatever king (through Odium's commands) says.

1) Odium discovered that Gavilar was up to something,

2) King of Kharbranth gave Szeth to Parshendi with specific command to kill Gavilar,

3) Odium waits to regain his full strength and therefore Parshendi are silent,

4) As soon as Odium regains his strength Parshedni will turn into Voidbringers and attack Roshar.

EDIT-

]Your point about the number of Parshendi warriors is interesting, but there have been theories that suggest that the reason they don't let people touch their dead is that they might be able to regenerate.

Also, there aren't contingents of Soulcasters within each war camp on the Shattered Plains. Elhokar owns all Soulcasters and charges for the Highprinces to use them. This is the Alethi War Tax (in effect).

Good points.

My thought process about soulcasters was that, without many soulcasters, Roshar with its weather problems will not be able to provide enough food for its population.

Edited March 28, 2012 by zas678
Please no double posing.

[Odium's_Shard]

Please avoid double posting. If you wish to make additional points, edit your latest post using the following syntax:

[Latest Post's Content]

EDIT: Forgot to reply to [name]'s post.

[New Post's Content

[Triasmus]

P.S.Possible theory:

Alethkar has a border with shattered plains. And yet only 6 years ago Gavilar discovered the parshendy. What if Odium through King of Kharbranth (his pet project) created these Parshendy (just recently in large numbers) with some magic and now the king of Kharbranth commands Parshendi. And they do whatever king (through Odium's commands) says.

1) Odium discovered that Gavilar was up to something,

2) King of Kharbranth gave Szeth to Parshendi with specific command to kill Gavilar,

3) Odium waits to regain his full strength and therefore Parshendi are silent,

4) As soon as Odium regains his strength Parshedni will turn into Voidbringers and attack Roshar.

The king wouldn't really have been able to give Szeth to the parshendi because the king only recently aquired Szeth in the first place.

I think the Parshendi will end up being very important allies in the final desolation (if Brandon came up with a good reason of why they killed Gavilar).

[name_here]

Roshar isn't really a wasteland where it's nearly impossible to grow crops. It's a stable, vibrant ecosystem that has completely integrated the Highstorms into its verdant landscapes. The Shattered Plains are more somewhat-sparse grassland than scoured wasteland, it's just that the plants hide whenever anyone walks by.

Despite appearances, Roshar seems to have as much plant and animal life as Earth in comparable biomes.

[Bunyod]

The king wouldn't really have been able to give Szeth to the parshendi because the king only recently aquired Szeth in the first place.

It is naive to think that the king all of a sudden recently found out about Szeth's cunning skills. The guys who captured Szeth's stone were VERY intimately familiar with him. And those guys worked for King of Kharbranth. Therefore one can assume that the same king was behind the ordering of Gavilar's death.

Roshar isn't really a wasteland where it's nearly impossible to grow crops. It's a stable, vibrant ecosystem that has completely integrated the Highstorms into its verdant landscapes. The Shattered Plains are more somewhat-sparse grassland than scoured wasteland, it's just that the plants hide whenever anyone walks by.

Despite appearances, Roshar seems to have as much plant and animal life as Earth in comparable biomes.

You may be right. Actually you are quite right, methinks. However, in Stormlight 2 we need to have more specific information on this topic.

Edited March 25, 2012 by Bunyod

[Guest Jacob Santos]

It is naive to think that the king all of a sudden recently found out about Szeth's cunning skills. The guys who captured Szeth's stone were VERY intimately familiar with him. And those guys worked for King of Kharbranth. Therefore one can assume that the same king was behind the ordering of Gavilar's death.

This is a fallacy of logic or an extremely open interpretation of events. Interesting theory nevertheless. There is currently no information linking the Parsendi to the King of Kharbranth currently. There exists contradictions to your assumption as well. Likewise, the Shardbearer knew Gavilar and seemed to want to talk or simply kill him after confirming he was the one. Therefore it could support your claim, but only assuming several other points that don't add up.

To support the assumption:

1. The king would of had to of had contact with the Parsendi prior to Gavilar and the King finding them.

2. Worked out the treaty and gave Szeth's oathstone or found where he could be bought. If that was the case, why not simply take Szeth back once the Parsendi was done with him? Perhaps them abandoning him was not part of the plan and they had to track him down again.

3. Szeth did not know the King, but that simply means he could have worked in the sidelines. However, it is obvious that the Parsendi knew about the Oathstone, which is interesting and leaves some unanswered questions. Since the majority of people outside of Szeth's homeland do not know about the oathstone, then how did some random people not knowing the language months prior learn and find the one person with the oathstone and know he was capable of succeeding?

[Bunyod]

3. Szeth did not know the King, but that simply means he could have worked in the sidelines. However, it is obvious that the Parsendi knew about the Oathstone, which is interesting and leaves some unanswered questions. Since the majority of people outside of Szeth's homeland do not know about the oathstone, then how did some random people not knowing the language months prior learn and find the one person with the oathstone and know he was capable of succeeding?

The quotes from book below prove that behind Szeth's actions were not some random people... those were very informed people. Therefore, I think, King of Krarbranth was behind hiring Szeth through Parshendi. My thought process looks like this: Odium->King of Kharbranth->Parshendi->Szeth->massacres.

"Who are you?" Szeth repeated.

"An admirer of the arts."

"Do not call me by my father's name," Szeth said. "He should not be sullied by association with me."

King's people know Szeth's father's name.

"This from the man who nearly toppled one of the greatest kingdoms in Roshar?"

"This from the man who committed one of the most heinous slaughters in Roshar," Szeth corrected.

King's people know that Szeth was the one who killed Gavilar

"You have done your work well," the king said, still not facing him. "Leaders dead, lives lost. Panic and chaos. Was this your destiny? Do you wonder? Given that monstrosity of a Shardblade by your people, cast out and absolved of any sin your masters might require of you?"

King knows that Shin people gave this blade to Szeth. It means that he knows pretty much everything about Szeth.

Szeth frowned. And then it began to make sense. He knew what would happen next, even as the king reached into his voluminous sleeve and withdrew a small rock that glittered in the light of two dozen lamps. "You were always him," Szeth said. "My unseen master."

The king set the rock on the ground between them. Szeth's Oathstone.

At first, I thought that Szeth's remark "You were always him," was meant for the most recent deaths of High princes. But then I came to conclusion that the word "ALWAYS" in this remark included Gavilar's death also.

I may be wrong but its something to think about.

Edited March 25, 2012 by Bunyod

[Triasmus]

I would think that T would have been smart enough to have people watching outside the castle for Szeth to appear so that they could follow him if the parshendi ended up not giving the Oathstone back. I doubt anyone would be stupid enough to let an asset like Szeth disappear for 6 years when they could easily have set multiple people around the castle to trail Szeth (who would then lead to the person with the Oathstone).

[Sweetness]

Maybe the Parshendi threw away his Oathstone so it would be more difficult for Taravangian to find him? Or Szeth's disappearance was deliberate. Kill the Alethi king, framing the Parshendi, then give the Highprinces and Elhokar time to mobilize and basically entrench themselves at the Shattered Plains. All the best fighters go there. That means the way will be clear for anybody who wants to sweep in and take Alethkar from the minor landlords and farmboys left behind.

[Triasmus]

Taravangian would make Szeth work as a slave in his castle-cave-thing if he wanted Szeth to disappear. And I don't think his goal is to go and steal Alethkar behind the backs of the high princes (since it wouldn't work anyway... it's all nice and fine to go campaign for revenge, but the campaign's gonna end if your home is being taken).

and like I said, Taravangian would have had people following Szeth, since he'd lead to the oathstone. and since you brought it up, he'd also have people following the parshendi, since they had the oathstone.

From what I can figure, it's very very very improbable that Taravangian had anything to do with Szeth's part in the assassination. There's only a chance (I think the chance is very small) that he was part of the assassination at all. He more likely learned how the assassination went down later on.