KelsierFortnite he/him Posted January 12, 2024 Posted January 12, 2024 I'm fairly certain it's stated that Nightblood is made of steel, which on its own is feruchemically viable. Could a Feruchemist potentially use Nightblood as a metalmind or would its Investiture-eating properties interfere with that?
Tamriel Wolfsbaine Posted January 12, 2024 Posted January 12, 2024 2 hours ago, KelsierFortnite said: I'm fairly certain it's stated that Nightblood is made of steel, which on its own is feruchemically viable. Could a Feruchemist potentially use Nightblood as a metalmind or would its Investiture-eating properties interfere with that? I have had questions about how much investiture it takes to fully fill something and if breaths and attributes fill the same role in filling an item with investiture. I feel like I always pictured inquisitors being able to store into spikes. Which was especially useful for gold feruchemy because a gold spike is what steals it and it would double as a metalmind as well. But how full is too full? Nightblood as we see him on screen is so full he is literally leaking investiture. I don't know that he could hold any attribute. I would say it is more likely he could double as a metalmind when he was first created. Though if attributes =/= investiture in the same way that breaths do then it might be possible. I would ask if nightblood is a hard no does that exclude other awakened metal or invested metal? Could you store in a less invested sword like vivennas? Atium metalminds exist. Are feruchemists not actually filling the part of atium that is the godmetal and only the parts that are electrum? If one god metal can be filled with an attribute can they all? While we don't know the attribute it stores i assume even shards have feruchemical properties. If atium and lerasium can be used as metalminds then shouldn't a shardblade be used as a metalmind? Then why not nightblood?
Duxredux he/him Posted January 12, 2024 Posted January 12, 2024 Mmm... Nightblood is sentient and has his own Identity which would contaminate the Identity match. I assume we don't count it as a Metalmind if you can't ever withdraw the attribute when it stops being keyed to you. I'd guess that anything sentient, Shardblade, Nightblood, Vivenna's sword won't work as retrievable Investiture storage, Breath, Feruchemical, or other. Not unless you can brute force siphon Investiture anyway. Absolutely no way can you use Nightblood as a Metalmind when drawn, he'll just consume the kinetic Investiture as it's transferred. Well... maybe if the Feruchemist was the Radiant then Identity contamination wouldn't be a problem as Radiants can Surgebind through their Shardplate which I assume is a related principle. At that point saturation and Investiture resisting Investiture become the next possible hurdles to jump.
Tamriel Wolfsbaine Posted January 12, 2024 Posted January 12, 2024 3 hours ago, Duxredux said: Mmm... Nightblood is sentient and has his own Identity which would contaminate the Identity match. I assume we don't count it as a Metalmind if you can't ever withdraw the attribute when it stops being keyed to you. I'd guess that anything sentient, Shardblade, Nightblood, Vivenna's sword won't work as retrievable Investiture storage, Breath, Feruchemical, or other. Not unless you can brute force siphon Investiture anyway. Absolutely no way can you use Nightblood as a Metalmind when drawn, he'll just consume the kinetic Investiture as it's transferred. Well... maybe if the Feruchemist was the Radiant then Identity contamination wouldn't be a problem as Radiants can Surgebind through their Shardplate which I assume is a related principle. At that point saturation and Investiture resisting Investiture become the next possible hurdles to jump. If one was a feruchemist couldnt they store identity before storing an attribute and then it wouldn't matter? Vivennas blade is probably the best bet of this happening. Especially since they use aluminum scabbard? Store your identity while holding the scabbard and then store your speed completely bypassing any identity contamination.
alder24 Posted January 12, 2024 Posted January 12, 2024 10 hours ago, KelsierFortnite said: I'm fairly certain it's stated that Nightblood is made of steel, which on its own is feruchemically viable. Could a Feruchemist potentially use Nightblood as a metalmind or would its Investiture-eating properties interfere with that? No, because Nightblood has his own identity, like Shardblades, so a Feruchemist can't access that, but also Nightblood is already full of investiture - you can't really fit anything more in him. Trying to invest Nightblood would be like trying to invest a Shardblade - which can't be done, they are all already full and the same would apply to any similar object, like Vivenne's sword. Nightblood is the most invested object in Cosmere, even more invested than a Shardblade, he leaks investiture because he can't hold that much of it already. Plus he would try to eat you when you touch him. Spoiler lucagreene18 If Szeth were to have drawn Nightblood immediately after he had consumed Rayse, would he still have drained Szeth's Stormlight? As it said he seemed like he had eaten as much as he could. Brandon Sanderson At that point, Nightblood had entered into essentially a food coma... Well, no, the food coma one came when he was drawing from the perpendicularity. I don't think he was in food coma mode at that point. I think that he could still have drawn more at that point, I'd have to go look at exactly what I wrote, if I'd put him into food coma mode or not. It is possible. This is one of the things I wanted to answer with the book. A lot of people have been theorizing, could Nightblood eat an entire Shard? And indeed, Nightblood could not eat an entire Shard. That is not within his capability. In fact, one of the reasons that he leaks Investiture is: he's too stuffed full of it. There is more Investiture in the sword Nightblood than it can actually hold, it's supersaturated. And it leaks Investiture (that it's done some weird things to). But it is constantly hungry for more and constantly leaks it, but it definitely can get full for a time, and it could not eat an entire Shard. I did see questions about that from people floating around, and it's something I'd been meaning to get to eventually. Nightblood is definitely relevant to things that are happening in the Cosmere, but it is not as simple as grabbing the sword, sticking it into a Shard, and defeating the Shard, unfortunately. Though, as you see in this book, there are reasons for a Shard to still be afraid of Nightblood. It didn't destroy Odium, but Rayse still really had a bad time. YouTube Spoiler Stream 1 (Dec. 17, 2020) Spoiler Questioner Can a Shardblade, dead or alive, become a Hemalurgic spike? Brandon Sanderson It's already too strongly Invested for this. It couldn't hold anymore charge. Starsight Release Party (Nov. 26, 2019) Spoiler Questioner So is it possible to Awaken a Shardblade? That's the question-- that's my question for you. Brandon Sanderson Um... With the magic system of Awakening, you mean? Questioner Yeah. Brandon Sanderson So, all forms of Investiture strongly resist other forms of Investiture. Questioner Makes sense. Brandon Sanderson *brief interruption* Nightblood is essentially an Awakened... Trying to do that. Questioner 'Cause he shows up in Words of Radiance, right? Brandon Sanderson Yes. So, it-- let's just say it'd be very, very hard. Because it's like saying, "Can-- I want to turn on a lightbulb that's been turned on." Yes, you can... maybe... I don't know what that even means. It's already Invested. It's already Awakened. Calamity release party (Feb. 16, 2016) Spoiler Questioner What would happen if a Shardblade hit Nightblood? Brandon Sanderson Nightblood would act like a Shardblade, in that it would stop a Shardblade. It is significantly more Invested than a Shardblade, so it would have some ramifications beyond that. Barnes & Noble B-Fest 2016 (June 11, 2016) 7 hours ago, Tamriel Wolfsbaine said: I would say it is more likely he could double as a metalmind when he was first created. Nightblood was not a metalmind when he was created: Spoiler Questioner Was Nightblood a metalmind or a Hemalurgic spike originally? Brandon Sanderson No. Great question! ICon 2019 (Oct. 15, 2019) Recently Brandon gave the ultimate answer to questions like this. He ended the decades long debate if a Mistborn can burn a piece of a Shardblade - the answer is a definite no, because living things like Shardblades are no longer treated like metals. The fact that they are alive, sentient and have their own identity prevents you from using them in Metallic Arts - a Mistborn can't burn them, a Feruchemist can't store in them, a Hemalurgist can't use them as a spike. A living metal is just different from a pure god metal which isn't alive, isn't sentient nor does it have its own identity. That's why you can store/burn Atium, but you can't do that with a Shardblade, or in this case with Nightblood. Spoiler Questioner What would happen if a person from Scadrial were to try to burn a manifested metal from Roshar? Brandon Sanderson So you're meaning they're in Shadesmar, they manifest it, and they try to burn it, right? Questioner Say a Spren of a Radiant manifests as a bead of metal instead of a Shardblade? Brandon Sanderson You're not going to be able to burn that if it's something that's coming from a spren, because that's not going to be treated as a metal in your body. Like, those are God Metals, and that one is actually alive and awake and it's just not gonna work. There are ways, though, that you could make that work. So it's totally possible, but you're gonna need something that's not an alive spren that's manifest like that. You're gonna need some way to get access to some tanavastium or something like that that's not, like, some living being. Dragonsteel 2023 (Nov. 21, 2023) 4
Tamriel Wolfsbaine Posted January 12, 2024 Posted January 12, 2024 1 hour ago, alder24 said: Nightblood was not a metalmind when he was created: I simply meant that given Nightbloods siphoning of investiture he would likely have more space to fill into, were it possible, than he has at the current point in story. 1000 breaths isn't so much compared to the amount he has consumed since. That does lead me to another question though. Has Nightblood always dripped black smoke? In my mind it is the overabundance of investiture leaking out of him. Could he be primed to consume more of a shard than what he has if someone was able to make a way for him to stay unsheathed long enough? Like an aluminum cannister with the top opened so he can't destroy the world via gravity over time but he isn't fully contained. Allow him to offload a ton of that investiture and then hook him up to the shard as a starving sword. Or do you think he would be so hungry at that point that the first person to touch him would be drained at a rate far higher than what we see him consume while drawn now?
Grubfriend He/Him Posted January 12, 2024 Posted January 12, 2024 33 minutes ago, Tamriel Wolfsbaine said: Or do you think he would be so hungry at that point that the first person to touch him would be drained at a rate far higher than what we see him consume while drawn now? Nightblood is literally TOO Invested. He technically can't hold that much power, but he does anyways. It would probably be the same no matter what
alder24 Posted January 12, 2024 Posted January 12, 2024 53 minutes ago, Tamriel Wolfsbaine said: I simply meant that given Nightbloods siphoning of investiture he would likely have more space to fill into, were it possible, than he has at the current point in story. 1000 breaths isn't so much compared to the amount he has consumed since. Yes, he was less invested back then but even then this wouldn't work. 54 minutes ago, Tamriel Wolfsbaine said: That does lead me to another question though. Has Nightblood always dripped black smoke? He did. He's named after this leaking smoke. Spoiler Brandon Sanderson Anyway, Nightblood is named for the smoke he leaks, and he originally had a different name when he was created. Vasher himself dubbed the sword Nightblood after he had used it to kill the woman he loved. The blackness that leaks out is actually corrupted and consumed Breaths, the ones that Nightblood leeches off anyone who draws him. Warbreaker Annotations (April 25, 2011) 57 minutes ago, Tamriel Wolfsbaine said: Could he be primed to consume more of a shard than what he has if someone was able to make a way for him to stay unsheathed long enough? Like an aluminum cannister with the top opened so he can't destroy the world via gravity over time but he isn't fully contained. Allow him to offload a ton of that investiture and then hook him up to the shard as a starving sword. Or do you think he would be so hungry at that point that the first person to touch him would be drained at a rate far higher than what we see him consume while drawn now? Nightblood can't destroy a planet or a Shard. He gets too full too soon. Even freshly created Nightblood wouldn't be able to make a noticeable dent on a nearly infinite power of a Shard. Nightblood absorption rate grows the longer he is drawn, so it's not that you can make him "hungry" and he'll eat you faster or something like that. But this still doesn't really matter. Spoiler Ryan Do we know why Nightblood didn't take up a Shard? Brandon Sanderson Nightblood didn't take up a Shard, Nightblood was not there... Oh, [they're] probably just asking why Nightblood did not absorb the entire Shard of Odium. Nightblood cannot hold that much Investiture. At least not at that rate, right? Like, if you drop Nightblood without his sheath... I have to do it this way, because otherwise you drop him on the planet and he would absorb the entire planet, right. This is not a power I want Nightblood to have. I do not want Nightblood... Nightblood is a very dangerous tool without also being the death star. I did not want... I actually was happy that I had the chance to put that scene in so I kind of put the kabosh on Nightblood being able to absorb the entire Investiture of an entire Shard. Not where I wanted... I didn't want that to be a promise people thought was coming. Now, he can absorb a lot and it's also rate of absorption is a pretty important deal. ... People are gonna quote me on this in ten years and things like that and say "but, but, but". Just, you know, understand that there are specific ways that I'm trying to phrase some of these things. The Dusty Wheel Show (June 17, 2021) Spoiler Questioner Nightblood has more Investiture than any other being, right? Brandon Sanderson Not every other being, but definitely one of the most highly Invested individuals that we have seen. Questioner So Nightblood, he was used to wound Odium. Is Odium now weaker than he was before? Brandon Sanderson Not in a relevant way. Technically, yes. Not in a relevant way. The amount taken, compared to how much there is, is pretty small. And a whole bunch of what happened there was focused on the Vessel, not on Odium itself. Questioner Could Nightblood consume Odium? Brandon Sanderson Nightblood would get full before consuming even the smallest fraction amount of Odium. As you saw, Nightblood kind of got full in that instance. Actually, it was with the perpendicularity, it would be similar to that. So for those who are wondering, no, you can't stab Nightblood into the planet and absorb the planet. Nightblood is really dangerous, as we've seen, but we're not talking "absorb planets" dangerous. Dragonsteel Mini-Con 2021 (Nov. 22, 2021)
Immortal Platypus Posted January 12, 2024 Posted January 12, 2024 (edited) 1 hour ago, Tamriel Wolfsbaine said: I simply meant that given Nightbloods siphoning of investiture he would likely have more space to fill into, were it possible, than he has at the current point in story. 1000 breaths isn't so much compared to the amount he has consumed since. That does lead me to another question though. Has Nightblood always dripped black smoke? In my mind it is the overabundance of investiture leaking out of him. Could he be primed to consume more of a shard than what he has if someone was able to make a way for him to stay unsheathed long enough? Like an aluminum cannister with the top opened so he can't destroy the world via gravity over time but he isn't fully contained. Allow him to offload a ton of that investiture and then hook him up to the shard as a starving sword. Or do you think he would be so hungry at that point that the first person to touch him would be drained at a rate far higher than what we see him consume while drawn now? i think there's a WOB about how Nightblood does have a theoretical Investiture capacity. I think Brandon said that he cannot consume an entire Shard, for example, and that he would go into a "food coma." I also don't think it's possible to let go of Nightblood without sheathing him first. We see Szeth in the battle of Thaylen Field almost out of Investiture but he couldn't let go of Nightblood cause he didn't have the sheath. EDIT: Alder found the WOB I was talking about. 13 hours ago, KelsierFortnite said: I'm fairly certain it's stated that Nightblood is made of steel, which on its own is feruchemically viable. Could a Feruchemist potentially use Nightblood as a metalmind or would its Investiture-eating properties interfere with that? I think in theory it is possible, but not practical. For one, Investiture resists other Investiture. Nightblood is highly Invested, so it would probably be very difficult to fill. He would also probably have to be in the aforementioned "food coma" to have Investiture stored in him without consuming it. Edited January 12, 2024 by Immortal Platypus
alder24 Posted January 12, 2024 Posted January 12, 2024 48 minutes ago, Immortal Platypus said: I also don't think it's possible to let go of Nightblood without sheathing him first. Vasher did that. Warbreaker ch 56: Quote He cried out, arm shaking. Destroy . . . evil . . . Nightblood said in his mind, all lightness gone from the tone, all familiarity. It boomed like a command. An awful, inhuman thing. The longer Vasher held the sword, the faster it drained his Breath. Gasping, he threw the sword aside and fell to his knees. It skidded, tearing a rip in the floor that puffed away into smoke, but hit a wall with a pling and fell still. Smoke rose from the blade. 13 hours ago, KelsierFortnite said: I'm fairly certain it's stated that Nightblood is made of steel, which on its own is feruchemically viable. Adding to that, because my reading skills are so great that I've just notice that, Nightblood indeed was made out of steel, but at this point he can be considered as Endowment's god metal - he is basically investiture: Spoiler Kael_the_Adventurer Did Nightblood's Awakening transform it into a God Metal? Brandon Sanderson *hesitant* Yes, you could say that. Adam Horne Was that a permanent change, or was that just while... Brandon Sanderson You can argue that Nightblood is a God Metal. Is he? You could argue otherwise as well. How about that? YouTube Spoiler Stream 4 (June 16, 2022)
Immortal Platypus Posted January 12, 2024 Posted January 12, 2024 2 hours ago, alder24 said: Vasher did that. Warbreaker ch 56: Quote oh, I forgot about that. mb
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