Warbeaker, The Peaceful on Roshar

[Zrogezrg]

I was wondering, what is the narative goal of having Vasher on Roshar. Based on his "Return Name", he might play a role in trying to secure a peaceful resolution in SA book 5 or later on. 

He could give up his Return Breath to heal somebody (like Taln from his Heraldic Madness, to allow him to be chosen as Honor's champion). My issue with this is that if reader is not familiar with Warbreaker, this will be quite out of place. It is easier to understand that Nightblood is some sort of shardblade on steoroids and it could kill a shard's vessel, meanwhile some weird ardent swordman who commands clothing randomly having some magical healing ability seems much less reasonable (atleast to me, when I am trying to think what I would be thinking without reading Warbreaker if this hypothetical would happen).

So maybe Zahel is just waiting for some other conflict later, drinking in sweet free stormlight instead of street urchin's Breath on Nalthis. His main role in SA was to transport Nightblood to Roshar.

Any ideas?

[alder24]

17 minutes ago, Zrogezrg said:

I was wondering, what is the narative goal of having Vasher on Roshar. Based on his "Return Name", he might play a role in trying to secure a peaceful resolution in SA book 5 or later on. 

He could give up his Return Breath to heal somebody (like Taln from his Heraldic Madness, to allow him to be chosen as Honor's champion). My issue with this is that if reader is not familiar with Warbreaker, this will be quite out of place. It is easier to understand that Nightblood is some sort of shardblade on steoroids and it could kill a shard's vessel, meanwhile some weird ardent swordman who commands clothing randomly having some magical healing ability seems much less reasonable (atleast to me, when I am trying to think what I would be thinking without reading Warbreaker if this hypothetical would happen).

So maybe Zahel is just waiting for some other conflict later, drinking in sweet free stormlight instead of street urchin's Breath on Nalthis. His main role in SA was to transport Nightblood to Roshar.

Any ideas?

I think there are 2 main reasons. First one already happened, he brought Nightblood to Roshar. Second one is less important - to set up and introduce us to Cosmere and Worldhoppers. Except for Hoid, Vasher is one of the most obvious characters showing up in another book. 

But I don't want to dismiss the possibility of him having a greater role in Roshar. Vasher was originally planned as one of the "main characters" of WoK Prime. He was there from the beginning, he probably has something greater waiting for him in the future. He already was busy during the RoW occupation of Urithiru, Vivenna is looking for him, they will probably reunite in KoWT and Nightblood might be involved too. What's next? No idea. Some cool Awakening I hope. 

Spoiler

Questioner

Is the sword at the end of Words of Radiance, is it the actual Nightblood from Warbreaker?

Brandon Sanderson

It is, actually. It's fun because when I first wrote Way of Kings in 2002, Vasher was one of the main characters. And then when I wrote Warbreaker in 2006, I wrote a book about him to do his past. And then when I re-wrote Way of Kings it's like, "Well, time for Vasher to come back." So he's been in Roshar, in my head, since the beginning, for some 20 years. But he wasn't-- He didn't originate there, but... He was one of the worldhoppers that I hid in the very first version. Which was a lot of fun to then be able to go write a book about him and come back.

Salt Lake City signing (March 29, 2014)

 

Spoiler

Vishal Pani

Why didn't Kaladin seek help from Zahel during the occupation of Urithiru?

Brandon Sanderson

Zahel... At some point I'll tell you what he was doing, but he was not available. That is a RAFO.

It came up multiple times, and there were various points where I was going to delve into it, and it just was one of those things that I just could not fit in. It is a thing that I wanted to, because we have this foreshadowing that Zahel's there; like, we have a scene with him and Kaladin to remind everyone that Zahel's around. And then we don't even bring him up. Alpha readers asked about it, beta readers asked about it. I could not find time for it. So maybe you'll get a deleted scene that is not a deleted scene, that's just a scene that I eventually write, showing what he's doing. This is one of those things like: what happened with Elhokar and the Herdazians and why does Lopen think he's a king? That scene just never fit into the books either.

Maybe I'll do it, maybe I won't. It's entirely possible, both options are possible. If I eventually never do it, I'll talk about it, but we are gonna have a little more Zahel in an upcoming volume of the Stormlight Archive, where some of these things coming out might fit into the story, to the point that your answers will come in that volume. There's a lot of various moving parts on what's going on with Zahel, and with Azure as well, and their relationship to Nightblood that there's just not space in the Stormlight Archive to talk about.

YouTube Spoiler Stream 1 (Dec. 17, 2020)

 

[Quantus]

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There's a lot of various moving parts on what's going on with Zahel, and with Azure as well, and their relationship to Nightblood that there's just not space in the Stormlight Archive to talk about.

This line in particular from that WOB makes me think Vasher's (and Nightblood's) story will continue past SA book 10.  

[The Sibling]

1 hour ago, Zrogezrg said:

He could give up his Return Breath to heal somebody (like Taln from his Heraldic Madness

Is this possible? I assume you could only heal the magical Heraldic Madness, not all the trauma and ptsd that the heralds have. Either way though, having Taln back would be sick, although I'm not sure how that relates the to the name "Warbreaker the Peaceful".

[Zrogezrg]

4 hours ago, The Sibling said:

Is this possible? I assume you could only heal the magical Heraldic Madness, not all the trauma and ptsd that the heralds have. Either way though, having Taln back would be sick, although I'm not sure how that relates the to the name "Warbreaker the Peaceful".

Warbreaker the Peaceful is one of Vasher names, the first one he got after his return. Maybe it was unnecessary confusing to use 3 different names of the same character in title and first post...

Whether it is 100% possible, it is hard to say. The healing is greater than surge of regrowth, as it restores Susebron's tongue which was cut off ~50 years prior. So it involves some shenanigans with spirit web. Most likely, the effect could depend on command used, but that should not be an issue, as Vasher seems to be one of the best at this, and he should have understanding of the issue.

I would not be surprised if Vasher could help Taln without giving his Return Breath, using some weird "normal breath" mental commands as he did with little girl in Warbreaker. But this would set bad precedences as most mental issues could be solved that way. But this is just speculation as there is very little information on how this works. 

[alder24]

5 hours ago, The Sibling said:

Is this possible? I assume you could only heal the magical Heraldic Madness, not all the trauma and ptsd that the heralds have. Either way though, having Taln back would be sick, although I'm not sure how that relates the to the name "Warbreaker the Peaceful".

It's possible, Divine Breath can heal body, mind and soul, but there is one limitation, the same as in every form of healing in Cosmere - self-perception. If Taln views himself as mad or having traumas, this won't help him, just like Kaladin wasn't able to heal his scars, just like Rysn can't heal her legs. I think it's really hard to say if Divine Breath can heal Heralds. Probably not, part of their madness would manifest as perceiving themselves as mad and traumatized. Not to mention that perception of other people also plays a role here.

Spoiler

Questioner

Given Sanderson's Laws about limitations...

Brandon Sanderson

Yes.

Questioner

What would you say are any spiritual, cognitive, and or physical limitations to a Returned's healing ability?

Brandon Sanderson

That they can do it once.

Questioner

That they can do it once, and that's it?

Brandon Sanderson

Yeah, right? The Returned get one heal and then they die. That's a pretty big limitation. Like you have to choose really well. However, what they can heal is bounded by cosmere limitations on healing, but it is a supercharged version.

Questioner

Okay. Could you define more cosmere limitations on healing?

Brandon Sanderson

Cosmere limitations on healing can be affected by your own perception.

Questioner

Okay. Cognitive stuff.

Brandon Sanderson

Cognitive stuff. And so there's a part of that, and... But that's really-- cognitive interferes. And if your spirit is gone? Right? Cosmere healing, you know, if your spirit is passed on you just get a dead body even though you've healed it.

Questioner

So potentially Vasher, having a much greater cosmere knowledge than others could potentially have a much greater usage of that healing than regular--

Brandon Sanderson

Well the healing-- What I mean by that is yourself. You impose limits. So the person being healed can impose some limits on the healing working. It doesn't happen as often as I'm making it sound. But, you know-- why Kaladin's scars have not healed, right? So Kaladin being hit by a Returned would still not heal his scars. He's got a major hangup about those scars.

Footnote: The questioner seems to have been asking about cosmere healing in general for Returned, but Brandon focused on their ability to give up their Divine Breath to heal somebody else.
Arcanum Unbounded release party (Nov. 22, 2016)

 

43 minutes ago, Zrogezrg said:

I would not be surprised if Vasher could help Taln without giving his Return Breath, using some weird "normal breath" mental commands as he did with little girl in Warbreaker.

True, part of the problem is that they have lived for too long and their mind can't comprehend that long lifespan. Remembering being tortured doesn't help at all. Getting rid of that and sorting their memories might be helpful.