Weapons for misting/ ferrings

[Aethling]

Thermite would be a good bubble buster. It gets hot enough to melt through concrete. Imagine that thrown into a narrow bubble. It would be charbroiled allomancer time. Of course, you could probably do the same thing using a flamethower for much less cost. Molotov cocktail type thrown weapon. Napalm grenade. Fire seems to be a good way to end the fight rarely quickly.

Flashbang device should still be partially effective. Even the best bubbles should not be faster than light. The bang part might not work well, but the flash should disorient one enough.

If you want to go highly illegal, as in warcrimes trial, phosphorous rounds would cook a pewterarm from the inside.

You could use tracer rounds to adjust for the deflection coming into the bubble. Unfortunately, we do not yet know if the deflection is constant or if it is completely random. Best case, it would be constant and make it like trying to hit a target at the bottom of a pond or pool. Worst case, volume of fire spray and pray.

I have always thought hollowpoints filled with liquid mercury would be particularly sadistic, but as mercury is a metal it might not work well against coinshots or lurchers. Bullets loaded with a biohazard or chemical weapon might be useful against those that can compound health. Hitting someone with a round that does physical damage as well as carries a nerve agent would be particularly nasty against a compounder.

Sodium rounds would probably never be practical, but imagine something like raw sodium inside a body. Even something so old fashion that it is ancient like quicklime might make a good weapon. Make a capsule type projectile loaded with quicklime. just contact with blood could start someone boiling from the inside, and the more you try to wash it out, the worse it could get. even a koloss might have trouble with a few explosive rounds hitting vital organs.

[Voidus]

Thermite is notoriously difficult to light and also anything against a bendalloy bubble is difficult as they can see it coming for minutes before it actually hits.

[None70]

for a weapon for lurchers i was thinking along the line of a metal ring like blade that they can throw then reterive by burning iron. the ring would be sharp on all sides so the lurcher would need like a glove or other form of protection to cacht it. this would also make it extremly dangerous for and enemy to try and turn it against them.

Maybe a boomerang with only a metal handle and a ceramic blade. the strength of the pull would add to the damage caused. A counter balance o the head would add to the speed of rotation by shifting the pull from the handle to the the tip

For a Steel ferring I suggest bladed bracers which could function both as storage and as weapon by passing at super speed close to the enemy

A suit of Iron Armor would turn a skimmer into a human tank which if combined with burning pewter would really be unstoppable.

[Eric]

Shrapnel still travels a fair way, not necessarily lethal but as long as they are reasnably close you'll still do some damage, particularly as I said if you are surrounded, Yea I'm still trying to think about how to avoid the blast yourself. Anyway I still think flash grenades at least would be good.

Shrapnel can travel up to 230 meters, but the effective radius is only about 15 m. A deflection of 21.3 degrees offsets that entirely. Without solid numbers or descriptions, that seems a little high for just the bubble, but then you still have wind and such. As for avoiding the blast yourself... just try getting it as far from you as possible and keep the bubble up. Preferably have someone or something between you and the blast.

As for thermite, there's a few ways to reliably ignite it, including one that's pretty simple for any decently stocked science lab or hospital (or, looking it up, apparently modern survival kits; who knew?). Assuming you can get it in the bubble, ignition should be routine. You need a way to get a grenade sized item in the bubble without it seeming like a threat... That's a puzzle, to be sure. To my knowledge, they haven't invented tennis yet, and that would be my go-to solution. Fill a tennis ball with thermite, and insert two fragile containers of the ignition reactants. Then throw a tennis ball at him. Conversely, you could do the same thing with bleach and ammonia.

Let's face it, I'd be a freaking worthless supervillain. Tennis balls? Really?

[Voidus]

Haha, loving the tennis balls. When I was talking about the difficulty lighting thermite I mean more it would be easy to disrupt when you can sit around talking about for 4 minutes or so before it gets to you.

I suppose that a coinshot might be able to sneak some in while making it appear to just be an anchor, that's about all I can come up with now.

[Aradel]

Cadmium mistings would be great for bomb squads, show up and slow the bomb down until it can be identified and defused.

Bendalloy mistings, on the other hand, would be great at setting bombs. As long as they're equiped with heavy sheilding or bombs that send shrapnel in only one direction.

Edited March 20, 2012 by Goradel's Nephew

[Aethling]

Well, the bendalloy bubble could see the grenade coming, but there wouldn't be much he could do about it without dropping the bubble since the bubbles are stationary. One of the problems mentioned in alloy is that they are pretty vulnerable until a new bubble gets up, and it takes time for that.

[RJWB0mb]

a weird thought for cadium ferring would be a blow dart gun. im not sure how exactly cadium storing works but its a thought.

for flash gernades perhaps being able to store sight in a tin mind would help pervent the user from being effected.

for thermite would it be possible to disperece it into a cloud before lighting? that could make it easyier to light and possibly could surround the slider so even if they put up a bubble it wont help them much.

though there a good chance of somthing like that blowing up in the users face...

[Aradel]

Well, the bendalloy bubble could see the grenade coming, but there wouldn't be much he could do about it without dropping the bubble since the bubbles are stationary. One of the problems mentioned in alloy is that they are pretty vulnerable until a new bubble gets up, and it takes time for that.

That's why it should be the slider using the explosives.

Get within twenty to fifty meters from target (for maximum effect), freeze time, set up a claymore at their leisure, set off the claymore at their leisure, rinse, repeat.

The Claymore, I should mention, is a hand-triggered directional mine. Meaning the slider gets to stand safely behind it while setting it off.

Edited March 21, 2012 by Goradel's Nephew

[Voidus]

i dont think they could exactly do nothing, all they'd need is a tennis racket grenade approaches border of bubble WHACK grenade sails back to origin.

[Odium's_Shard]

As for storing sight in Tin to avoid getting flashed by a grenade, increasing the Sight would be deadly, but storing sight might be detrimental to finding and killing the enemy who threw it to start with.

[RJWB0mb]

As for storing sight in Tin to avoid getting flashed by a grenade, increasing the Sight would be deadly, but storing sight might be detrimental to finding and killing the enemy who threw it to start with.

i was thinking more along the line of the tin mind throwing the grenade in the first place that way they could perpare for the explosion. i guess it could also work with concousion grenades i think.

[Eric]

a weird thought for cadium ferring would be a blow dart gun. im not sure how exactly cadium storing works but its a thought.

I think tapping cadium just oxygenates the blood, letting you get by on thinner air or without breathing. The same way storing energy lets you go without eating, but doesn't fill up your stomach with food (as far as I know, anyway).

for thermite would it be possible to disperece it into a cloud before lighting? that could make it easyier to light and possibly could surround the slider so even if they put up a bubble it wont help them much.

though there a good chance of somthing like that blowing up in the users face...

Not really. Thermite doesn't need oxygen in the air, so mixing it doesn't make it easier to burn. It's a very energetic combustion reaction, but one of the reasons it burns so hot is that it doesn't consume or release gases. Since it heats far more by conduction than convection, the cloud won't burn.

In case there are impetuous types reading this, please keep an eye on safety if you ever decide to mess with the stuff. Make sure you check your local laws about controlled incendiary devices, have the fire department and paramedics standing by, stay well back when igniting and during combustion, and make sure you have fire extinguishers and first aid kits on hand (they may be redundant with the fire department and paramedics, but since you're up against Murphy's Law with flaming metal, just go with it). I'd also recommend building a brick or stone fire pit (the kind that open up onto the dirt beneath for cookouts and such) for the ignition, and keeping it clear of flammable materials that might blow away. Safety first.

[Voidus]

Yea, don't mess with thermite, it's dangerous stuff. I'm still trying to come up with something good to use against a bendalloy bubble but there's really not much you can do, unless you trap the area beforehand.

[Thought]

I'm still trying to come up with something good to use against a bendalloy bubble but there's really not much you can do, unless you trap the area beforehand.

AoL already gave us the answer: flames. Or, more pragmatically, a flamethrower. You want something that will utterly consume the area, if only for a brief moment (like the explosion that nearly took out our favorite lawman). The slider's bubble will make the flames slow down, from their perspective, but as long as one can encompass the entire bubble (about 5 feet diameter, if I recall correctly), that will just delay the inevitable. In the words of Peter Vincent/David Tennant: "and a [slider] on fire isn't thinking straight."

Edited March 22, 2012 by Thought

[Voidus]

You've got to get close enough to use it first, and they can see what you are doing long before you can actually kill them (flamethrowers are quite difficult to hide) and it's impractical to have everyone carrying a flamethrower. So yeah, all in all I don't think it would work too well.

[Thought]

You are over looking the simple fact that flamethrowers have been proven to be effective against normal human soldiers. A slider has no particular advantage in escaping a flamethrower over that of a normal human being, since their powers wouldn't let them "dodge" it like they might a bullet, nor would their powers deflect fire like it would a bullet. If a flamethrower can kill a normal person effectively (and we know they can), then they can kill a slider effectively.

[Odium's_Shard]

Anything that has no weight (or a minute weight, in fire's terms) to impact upon the time difference -> lateral manipulation of the speed of the edge of the bubble would do as well against a slider or pulser. Such as ambush, numbers, etc. Sliders or pulsers aren't terribly singularly effective. Much better team players.

But like all support: take it out first.

[Thought]

Good point, Odium. A gas attack, for example, could prove to be quiet effective against a slider, provided that the misting doesn't have a gas mask handy, for that very same reason. One really just needs to make sure that the slider is in a no-win scenario.

[Odium's_Shard]

After all, what are they going to do to retaliate? After you force them to ditch the bubble (landmines, preprepared explosives, or as you say, gaseous attack ) they are just as effective as any other soldier. Run them down for the kill. You can't shoot them because they presumably leave the bubble in place to cover their retreat, but if you set up an ambush, you don't have these problems to start with.

After all, they can't harm you from inside the bubble for the same reason you can't shoot them while outside. Even if you were caught in the bubble, they're just as slow/fast as you are. The only harm I can see is the unforseen consequence of a strangely shortened life. Maybe when a pulser uses their power, they lose some time on this world as well. That would be... fitting. A slider would, reversibly, remain younger for longer. The usual problems with time disparity and the like.

[Aethling]

One of the good thing about a flame thrower or thermite grenade would be you do not have to get a direct hit on the person like you would with a bullet or any type of projectile weapon. The immense amount of heat given off would effectively cook the person inside the bubble. I am no engineer, so I do not know anything about thermodynamics, but wouldn't heat penetrate much more quickly through the bubble? You start getting effects as soon as it comes in contact with the time dilation. Once the stream managed to breach the bubble, you would have a very hot substance burning very close to the allomancer. If the person dropped the bubble, the fire/heat would hit them almost immediately just like it would a normal person.

Grenades could be even more effective against a time distortion bubble as you could tune their fuses to take into account the time dilation of going through the bubble. If you figure a 20:1 distortion, set it for a one minute fuse and throw it, by the time it gets through the bubble, it should explode almost instantly.

Imagine the ballroom fight with one of the baddies using a grenade or flamethrower. Wayne would almost certainly have been killed.

A submachine gun would be fairly effective also. It would have been extremely hard for Wayne to dodge 2-300 rounds coming through the bubble. Fortunately, submachine guns are a few years outside the timeline for Alloy, though semi-autos should be getting fairly close.

[Voidus]

I already covered grenades. On flamethrowers, they are quite heavy and basically make you a sitting duck, as soon as this technique became well known sliders would look for them, drop the bubble for half a second and shoot the gas tank, which would effectively take out the person holding it as well as anyone near him. It's just too commited as well, flamethrowers don't last too long, you have to carry the fuel around with you so you can't take too much and yeah as I said it's incredibly obvious what you're doing, quite easy to pick out and then take down. Gas grenades aren't a bad idea, but then once again as soon as too many people use it, there's quite an easy countermeasure so basically any slider would just carry gas masks around.

[Aethling]

Wayne states several times he can't just drop the bubble and put it right back up though. It takes some time before he is able to redo the bubble. Simple idea would be to hold the flamer in reserve until he actually puts up the bubble. Once he puts up the bubble, you have him. The heat should penetrate the bubble more efficiently than a bullet. He is unable to relocate while the bubble is up. If he drops the bubble, he gets broiled and shot multiple times.

[Thought]

Voidus, you are grossly underestimating the effectiveness of flamethrowers. If they were able to be taken down so easily in the circumstances you describe, they would have never seen major military use. Since they did see such use, we know that your countermeasures aren't effective.

Anywho, moving on: for a lurcher, a large ramp could make an effective indirect fire weapon. Oil up the ramp, place a metal ball on the end touching the ground, have the lurcher stand on the ground opposite the ball, and pull. The ironpull will bring the ball towards the lurcher, but the ramp will translate some of that forward motion into upward motion. As long as the lurcher stops pulling before the ball leaves the ramp, it will continue on its inclined path. Pair the lurcher with a coinshot (since presumably there are roughly equal numbers of them), and the power behind this simple device could be quite impressive.

[Voidus]

They have as much efectiveness as any weapon when no one is using it, kill the person holding it and they can't keep using it, simple. I'm not saying that flamethrowers are useless but in this particular situation they wouldn't last long. Especially against someone like Wayne who engages in melee combat anyway, can't shoot someone with a flamethrower if they are right in front of you as easily, so yeah it's probably more effective than guns but the only way to be able to make full use of that is to just have everyone carrying them around which is just impractical.

I do like that idea for lurchers, allomancy fueled cannon