Another red (and gold) herring?

[morcey2]

I'm listening to Oathbringer again and heard something that caught my attention.  About half-way through chapter 107 "The First Steps", the  Tashikki mention a specific fighting group.  It's "the 13th Battalion, Red and Gold."  I've read through most of the "MoRaG" threads that I can find and haven't seen that particular instance mentioned. 

It really is probably another red herring.  (Still looking for a gold herring.) 

But I think the Tashikki are going to take over the Cosmere.  With spanreeds.  And Griffindor.

Seriously, though.  Red and gold combo seems to show up in some really unusual places. 

[Thaidakar the Ghostblood he/him]

3 hours ago, morcey2 said:

I'm listening to Oathbringer again and heard something that caught my attention.  About half-way through chapter 107 "The First Steps", the  Tashikki mention a specific fighting group.  It's "the 13th Battalion, Red and Gold."  I've read through most of the "MoRaG" threads that I can find and haven't seen that particular instance mentioned. 

It really is probably another red herring.  (Still looking for a gold herring.) 

But I think the Tashikki are going to take over the Cosmere.  With spanreeds.  And Griffindor.

Seriously, though.  Red and gold combo seems to show up in some really unusual places. 

it's the men of gold and red in Era 2 of Mistborn, which I assume is what you are referencing. Everyone thinks it's red and gold because it feels more logical that way, but it's the men of gold and red in text.

[alder24]

13 hours ago, morcey2 said:

I'm listening to Oathbringer again and heard something that caught my attention.  About half-way through chapter 107 "The First Steps", the  Tashikki mention a specific fighting group.  It's "the 13th Battalion, Red and Gold."  I've read through most of the "MoRaG" threads that I can find and haven't seen that particular instance mentioned. 

It really is probably another red herring.  (Still looking for a gold herring.) 

But I think the Tashikki are going to take over the Cosmere.  With spanreeds.  And Griffindor.

Seriously, though.  Red and gold combo seems to show up in some really unusual places. 

It's definitely a red herring. The men of gold and red in TLM are described as having advanced rifles and armor. Tashikki would have only 10 years to exchange their swords and spears for rifles and to earn a fearsome reputation of a force that is capable of wiping out entire planets. We can safely assume those guys aren't Autonomy's army. 

[morcey2]

8 hours ago, Ookla the Black Sock said:

it's the men of gold and red in Era 2 of Mistborn, which I assume is what you are referencing. Everyone thinks it's red and gold because it feels more logical that way, but it's the men of gold and red in text.

Assuming that the 'and' is a common logical AND (which is a safe assumption), I hereby invoke the commutative property and thus:

R∧G <-> G∧R 

Therefore, it doesn't make any difference. 

23 hours ago, alder24 said:

It's definitely a red herring. The men of gold and red in TLM are described as having advanced rifles and armor. Tashikki would have only 10 years to exchange their swords and spears for rifles and to earn a fearsome reputation of a force that is capable of wiping out entire planets. We can safely assume those guys aren't Autonomy's army.

I think that's all part of their cunning plan.  You should always suspect those that you assume you shouldn't suspect.  But then you suspect everyone and no one at the same time and we're back to square one. 

Actually, I'm just wondering if it's an intentional red herring or if it was just unintentional.  I've seen several WoBs that reference little tiny details that he hopes someone notices but then there are others where one little detail lines up nicely with some other story-line but BS says they're totally unrelated when asked about it.

I think it's probably unintentional in this case.

[alder24]

42 minutes ago, morcey2 said:

Actually, I'm just wondering if it's an intentional red herring or if it was just unintentional.  I've seen several WoBs that reference little tiny details that he hopes someone notices but then there are others where one little detail lines up nicely with some other story-line but BS says they're totally unrelated when asked about it.

I think it's probably unintentional in this case.

The combination of red and gold appears in multiple different books, like in The Emperor's Soul (clothes of Frava, one of the arbiters), Tress (inspector’s coat) or even Warbreaker (Ligthsong's colors), and all of this might be very intentional. It might suggest either direct involvement of Autonomy, or what's more likely in my opinion, characters that display some characteristics that align with the spirit of Autonomy's intent, like being independent and autonomous, or just standing out from others, with no direct involvement of Autonomy.

Edited December 12, 2023 by alder24

[Treamayne]

38 minutes ago, morcey2 said:

Actually, I'm just wondering if it's an intentional red herring or if it was just unintentional. 

I think this is a case of "Colors mean things" but not always the same thing. On Roshar, Gold is predominantly Odium's color (not exclusively, of course). Red is, cosmere-wide, indicative of Corrupted Investiture (in the sense that it has been changed from it's base - not necessarily in the malignant/evil context of "corruption") which is seen in many places such as Sel (red smoke from an essence mark*), Roshar and Scadrial (Red eyes*),  plus other examples.*

We do not yet know for sure what the color associated with the Shard behind the Scadrial Invasion army is, or if that army is even of that's Shard's creation, or simply co-opted from another source

Sanderson likes to use thematic ties - and the Tashikki army may just be a "thematic callback" to "Here is one army associated with these colors, possibly up to no good"  - and - "here's another army using similar colors - they might also be up to no good."

*Notes:

Spoiler

• Essence Marks give off "corrupted investiture" because the soul has been changed and is fighting the changes - the more plausible, the less smoke. On objects, there may be no smoke at all, but a Sapient Soul will always release some which is also why the marks only last a day
• Red Eyes are implied to be due to Oduim using his own investiture to make changes to a base investiture (Spren/Surges) that are not his. 
  • Also implied that the "Voidish" purple may be Honor's blue changed by Corruption red - making a purple/black hue.
• The most obvious one is not named because they are Secret Projects spoilers

WoBs:

Spoiler

Quote

Quote

Roger

As I understand it, red is a sign of corruption in the cosmere. I just reread The Emperor's Soul, and it mentioned wisps of red smoke when Shai tests the Soulstamps. Does this mean she is corrupting Gaotona's soul?

Brandon Sanderson

Yes, that is what that means. Corruption doesn't have to have the negative connotation, right? Basically, it means an outside influence is changing the Spiritual nature of the soul. And, yeah, that's exactly what is happening right there. Now, I would call that a pretty good thing, but... like, all of those things, where she is playing with someone's soul, and changing it, and changing their past, and things like this. This is, by cosmere definition, corrupting someone's soul. That's expressly what it is.

YouTube Livestream 10 (June 18, 2020)

Questioner

Even when we something we might suspect to be outside influence in other worlds?

Brandon Sanderson

Not necessarily, because red can also mean corrupted Investiture in the Cosmere. So, I would call Odium's real color gold, because you're going to see red when Odium is corrupting other things, so...

Questioner

It's not necessarily on Roshar.

Brandon Sanderson

It's not necessarily Odium. So, you're asking for the invading force on Mistborn, it doesn't necessarily mean Odium because it's red. So red just kind of means corruption. I've talked about that before, so. Not necessarily, not definitive, yeah.

 

Footnote: When Sanderson said "you're asking about the invading force on Mistborn", the questioner made a guilty "caught red-handed" shrug.

Quote

FirstSelector

Does red in cosmere signify one Shard co-opting or corrupting another Shard's magic?

Brandon Sanderson

Yes.

Oathbringer San Francisco signing (Nov. 15, 2017)

Quote

KandraAllomancer

Are the men of gold and red from any Shardworld we've seen so far? Do they use any magic system we currently know?

Brandon Sanderson

Yes. Maybe not only, but yes.

YouTube Spoiler Stream 5 (Dec. 2, 2022)

Spoiler

Questioner

I noticed during Oathbringer, is there a symbolism between the color red? Because I noticed that red is mentioned many times. Is it tied directly to the Thrill?

Brandon Sanderson

When I am using red specifically for spren and eye color, I'm doing it intentionally. It means something. I'm not gonna tell you what it means yet.

Questioner

Azure's cloth was red, and Adolin picked up a red glass sphere.

Brandon Sanderson

Some of that is going to be coincidence. But the color of the thing that is going to Scadrial is not coincidence.

Skyward Seattle signing (Nov. 10, 2018)