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Herald Chapter Pictures--Identities *spoilers*


Timemaster11

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Are you certain of this? When I read the prologue, I notice how Szeth says he lashes the soldier to the roof, himself to the far wall, the cut stone to the door, etc. He always specifies something to anchor his lashings to.

In the part 2 interludes (p. 448, U.S. hardcover) Szeth cuts out a section of a roof and then lashes it "towards the northwest section of the sky". This could be the location of a moon or, as the wording implies, he may have lashed it in a general direction instead of to a specific object. He also mentions lashing himself in specific directions at times as well.

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What would happen if you Lashed an object to another object and then it missed?  Would it come back around towards it from another direction?  Could you cause something to orbit something else in such a way?  I'm kinda thinking in terms of Super Mario Galaxy when it comes to gravity here. :P

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That depends on if my point attractor theory is right, or if Lashing simply changes the strength and direction of gravity. If the former, I imagine you could get an orbit going, though not inside the planet's atmosphere because the speeds required to orbit in 1G are too fast.

If the latter, the object would keep flying until it either struck something, or the Stormlight ran out. In Szeth's second mass killing spree, the soldiers he lashed upward didn't stay up for very long.

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I would say with just one lashing you would run out of stormlight way before you got into orbit

No, I mean having an object orbit around another object.

That depends on if my point attractor theory is right, or if Lashing simply changes the strength and direction of gravity. If the former, I imagine you could get an orbit going, though not inside the planet's atmosphere because the speeds required to orbit in 1G are too fast.

If the latter, the object would keep flying until it either struck something, or the Stormlight ran out. In Szeth's second mass killing spree, the soldiers he lashed upward didn't stay up for very long.

Well, I imagine you could do both, Lash an object to another object, a specific point or just a direction.
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But what Ryan is saying is that he's not sure whether Lashing an object to another object entails creating an attraction to the second object, or changing to force of gravity to act in that direction. If it's the first, when the first object passes the second, it would be pulled back. If the second, it would keep going, as the force would still be acting in the same direction, even though the object it was originally lashed to is now behind it.

At least I think that's what he's saying....

And I'd say it's more likely that it's a point attraction, not changing the direction of gravity. But that's totally personal opinion.

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That's mostly what I'm saying. Except, I don't think "lashing an object to another object" is a wholly accurate description of what's going on, since an actual physical anchor does not appear to be required for the process to work. It's just that Szeth seems to think of things that way most of the time, since it's an intuitive way to look at it (and, in honesty, the simplest way to describe the action).

We've not seen anything in the behavior of Lashings that lets us distinguish between the point attractor and altered direction theories. The only thing that lends greater weight, at least in my mind, to the point attractor is the fact that Szeth always Lashes to a point, not a direction. But again, it could just be a matter of him using points as a mental focus, and not that that is how the magic actually operates.

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Well, technically you could. You'd just have to lash the object to yourself. However, since this seems to manipulate gravity on the object somehow, you'd have to either a) lash it very carefully so it didn't come crashing into you, or ;) lash it to a couple of other things as well.

If you're talking about something like I step, and the object I lashed to me moves, I stop and so does it, I doubt that it's possible to attain the degree of control for something like that to happen without a serious amount of concentration. And it's not really useful enough to warrant said concentration.

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I thought this was interesting, so I'll post it here, then in the wiki.

From TWG-eslyan

Chapter  Symbol  Herald Name 1  Attribute 1  Attribute 2  Herald Name 2  Attribute 1  Attribute 2

Prologue  Szeth  Jezrien  Protecting  Leading  Jezrien  Protecting  Leading

1  Kaladin  Talenelat  Dependable  Resourceful  Talenelat  Dependable  Resourceful

2  Kaladin  Vev  Loving  Healing  Vev  Loving  Healing

3  Shallan  Shalash  Creative  Honest  Shalash  Creative  Honest

4  Shallan  Ishar  Pious  Guiding  Ishar  Pious  Guiding

5  Shallan  Palah?  Learned  Giving  Palah?  Learned  Giving

6  Kaladin  Talenelat  Dependable  Resourceful  Talenelat  Dependable  Resourceful

7  Shallan  Ishar  Pious  Guiding  Ishar  Pious  Guiding

8  Shallan  Palah?  Learned  Giving  Palah?  Learned  Giving

9  Kaladin  Nalan  Just  Confident  Nalan  Just  Confident

10  Kaladin  Vev  Loving  Healing  Vev  Loving  Healing

11  Kaladin  Jezrien  Protecting  Leading  Jezrien  Protecting  Leading

I-1  Almighty  Hoid  ?  ?  Hoid  ?  ?

I-2  Almighty  Kalak/Kelek  Resolute  Builder  Kalak/Kelek  Resolute  Builder

I-3  Szeth  Shalash  Creative  Honest  Shalash  Creative  Honest

12  Dalinar  Hoid  ?  ?  Jezrien  Protecting  Leading

13  Dalinar  Jezrien  Protecting  Leading  Chach?  Brave  Obedient

14  Kaladin  Kalak/Kelek  Resolute  Builder  Jezrien  Protecting  Leading

15  Dalinar  Chach?  Brave  Obedient  Jezrien  Protecting  Leading

16  Kaladin  Talenelat  Dependable  Resourceful  Vev  Loving  Healing

17  Kaladin  Vev  Loving  Healing  Talenelat  Dependable  Resourceful

18  Dalinar  Betab?  Wise  Careful  Betab?  Wise  Careful

19  Dalinar  Vev  Loving  Healing  Jezrien  Protecting  Leading

20  Kaladin  Vev  Loving  Healing  Vev  Loving  Healing

21  Kaladin  Vev  Loving  Healing  Talenelat  Dependable  Resourceful

22  Dalinar  Hoid  ?  ?  Kalak/Kelek  Resolute  Builder

23  Kaladin  Ishar  Pious  Guiding  Vev  Loving  Healing

24  Dalinar  Jezrien  Protecting  Leading  Chach?  Brave  Obedient

25  Kaladin  Betab?  Wise  Careful  Nalan  Just  Confident

26  Dalinar  Jezrien  Protecting  Leading  Talenelat  Dependable  Resourceful

27  Kaladin  Vev  Loving  Healing  Talenelat  Dependable  Resourceful

28  Dalinar  Palah?  Learned  Giving  Jezrien  Protecting  Leading

I-4  Almighty  Betab?  Wise  Careful  Betab?  Wise  Careful

I-5  Almighty  Palah?  Learned  Giving  Palah?  Learned  Giving

I-6  Szeth  Nalan  Just  Confident  Nalan  Just  Confident

29  Shallan  Shalash  Creative  Honest  Palah?  Learned  Giving

30  Kaladin  Vev  Loving  Healing  Talenelat  Dependable  Resourceful

31  Kaladin  Chach?  Brave  Obedient  Vev  Loving  Healing

32  Kaladin  Nalan  Just  Confident  Talenelat  Dependable  Resourceful

33  Shallan  Ishar  Pious  Guiding  Palah?  Learned  Giving

34  Kaladin  Jezrien  Protecting  Leading  Nalan  Just  Confident

35  Kaladin  Jezrien  Protecting  Leading  Jezrien  Protecting  Leading

36  Shallan  Vev  Loving  Healing  Palah?  Learned  Giving

37  Kaladin  Palah?  Learned  Giving  Vev  Loving  Healing

38  Kaladin  Jezrien  Protecting  Leading  Vev  Loving  Healing

39  Shallan  Nalan  Just  Confident  Shalash  Creative  Honest

40  Kaladin  Kalak/Kelek  Resolute  Builder  Talenelat  Dependable  Resourceful

41  Kaladin  Nalan  Just  Confident  Vev  Loving  Healing

42  Shallan  Palah?  Learned  Giving  Ishar  Pious  Guiding

43  Kaladin  Talenelat  Dependable  Resourceful  Talenelat  Dependable  Resourceful

44  Kaladin  Talenelat  Dependable  Resourceful  Vev  Loving  Healing

45  Shallan  Shalash  Creative  Honest  Palah?  Learned  Giving

46  Kaladin  Chach?  Brave  Obedient  Jezrien  Protecting  Leading

47  Kaladin  Nalan  Just  Confident  Talenelat  Dependable  Resourceful

48  Shallan  Ishar  Pious  Guiding  Ishar  Pious  Guiding

49  Kaladin  Kalak/Kelek  Resolute  Builder  Talenelat  Dependable  Resourceful

50  Shallan  Vev  Loving  Healing  Vev  Loving  Healing

51  Kaladin  Nalan  Just  Confident  Nalan  Just  Confident

I-7  Almighty  Shalash  Creative  Honest  Shalash  Creative  Honest

I-8  Almighty  Palah?  Learned  Giving  Palah?  Learned  Giving

I-9  Szeth  Nalan  Just  Confident  Jezrien  Protecting  Leading

52  Dalinar  Talenelat  Dependable  Resourceful  Jezrien  Protecting  Leading

53  Kaladin  Vev  Loving  Healing  Vev  Loving  Healing

54  Dalinar  Nalan  Just  Confident  Hoid  ?  ?

55  Kaladin  Jezrien  Protecting  Leading  Talenelat  Dependable  Resourceful

56  Dalinar  Chach?  Brave  Obedient  Jezrien  Protecting  Leading

57  Kaladin  Jezrien  Protecting  Leading  Hoid  ?  ?

58  Dalinar  Betab?  Wise  Careful  Jezrien  Protecting  Leading

59  Kaladin  Jezrien  Protecting  Leading  Kalak/Kelek  Resolute  Builder

60  Dalinar  Palah?  Learned  Giving  Jezrien  Protecting  Leading

61  Dalinar  Kalak/Kelek  Resolute  Builder  Talenelat  Dependable  Resourceful

62  Kaladin  Vev  Loving  Healing  Talenelat  Dependable  Resourceful

63  Kaladin  Chach?  Brave  Obedient  Kalak/Kelek  Resolute  Builder

64  Dalinar  Betab?  Wise  Careful  Talenelat  Dependable  Resourceful

65  Dalinar  Nalan  Just  Confident  Chach?  Brave  Obedient

66  Dalinar  Nalan  Just  Confident  Vev  Loving  Healing

67  Kaladin  Jezrien  Protecting  Leading  Jezrien  Protecting  Leading

68  Dalinar  Betab?  Wise  Careful  Chach?  Brave  Obedient

69  Dalinar  Nalan  Just  Confident  Shalash  Creative  Honest

70  Shallan  Betab?  Wise  Careful  Shalash  Creative  Honest

71  Szeth  Nalan  Just  Confident  Vev  Loving  Healing

72  Shallan  Palah?  Learned  Giving  Palah?  Learned  Giving

73  Kaladin  Vev  Loving  Healing  Jezrien  Protecting  Leading

74  Shallan  Ishar  Pious  Guiding  Palah?  Learned  Giving

75  Dalinar  Jezrien  Protecting  Leading  Jezrien  Protecting  Leading

Epilogue  Almighty  Talenelat  Dependable  Resourceful  Hoid  ?  ?

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Yes, but it's also formatted fairly badly, making it difficult to read, and also includes extra information that isn't necessarily relevant (like the chapter epigraphs, though I admit that the viewpoint character and a summary of what happened in the chapter is nice. Though I think that would actually work better on the summary page than it would on the page with this table). Maybe I'll start adding that. If, you know, I ever actually finish the summaries....

And I would do it myself, but I know absolutely nothing about making tables in wikis...

Also, we do strive to keep the Coppermind as complete as possible. This is a good resource, and where it's being freely shared, we really ought to get it added.

EDIT: And zas replied before me. But at least I'm now spared the trouble of figuring out how wiki tables work. Though it probably wouldn't hurt for me to look it up.

Starting to look better, Zas! Granted, it's still got a bit of work, but I'm thinking we're going in the right direction.

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Hoid is almost certainly not a herald, based on what little we know. He was there when Adonalsium was shattered, and he pops up all over the place, something the other Heralds don't do (and couldn't, theoretically, since they were imprisoned between desolations. We also have reason to believe the other Heralds are just wandering Roshar) He is also very likely not a Shardbearer, as we had initially thought.

At this point, it seems most likely that Hoid is just a random person who knows a whole lot more about the universe than anyone except the Shards, and happens to be using that knowledge to try to reach some unknown goal.

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