JustQuestin2004 he/him Posted November 20, 2023 Posted November 20, 2023 (edited) So, first things first, during TLM the Set were shown to have discovered how to use hemalurgy (likely with a Nicrosil spike) to strip a Scadrian of the extra bit of Preservation's Investiture that exists in all Scadrians. The same power that creates Allomancers. The Set scientists also mentioned that they used these spikes to actually make people into Allomancers, though only briefly for an undisclosed reason. (TLM CHP 47) I believe that reason is because of Identity. Because charging a spike is just like filling a Metalmind, Identity keys it to a specific individual, the one it came from. Spoiler Czanos Would anything interesting happen if an Allomancer Burned a Hemalurgic spike, or a Feruchemist Tapped one? Brandon Sanderson Er, well, it’s possible. But you’d have to be burning a Hemalurgic spike that killed you and took your power… Just like you can’t gain anything by burning a metalmind unless you infused it yourself. So in order to improve this method, you just have to find a way to Blank the identity of either the 'Donors' or perhaps just the receiver. Most likely the former. There exist several ways to accomplish this through F-Alumnum though the man issue is actually having your donor's willing Blank their Identity. Ettmetal charged with F-Aluminum might provide a way to forcibly Blank other people's Identity though that is just speculation. So that's how you create a power-granting Spike out of normal people, but I'm not stopping there, Hemalurgy can only grant you so many powers because your soul can only accept so many Spikes but what if there was a way around that? What if you could permanently intergrate the Spike to grant yourself the power in a deeper way? What if you tried to Compound Hemalurgy with Allomancy? It works for Feruchemy so there exists a precendent. So let's dive in. Spoiler Maru Nui What happens when you burn a Hemalurgic spike? Brandon Sanderson Burning a Hemalurgic spike would have the effect of splicing your spiritual DNA to that of the person's that is in the spike, which would have some very strange consequences. First, you'd need the previous steps, stab a bunch of muggle Scadrians while Blanking their Identity to make an Unkeyed Spike. Then, assuming it's made of Nicrosil, acquire an Electrum spike that grants A-Nicrosil, then Burn the Unkeyed Spike. If it works the same way as A-F Compounding, then it's possible that you'd be granted additional power, gaining more allomantic potency than what was in the Unkeyed Spike, potentially turning you into a Mistborn straight off like Lerasium. Though I'm going to be assuming that you will just integrate the extra Preservation into yourself, granting yourself a single Allomantic ability, probably a random one. This method, if it works like I think it does, would prove superior than just spiking yourself for 2 reasons: 1: You would have the ability without the spike, meaning the power can no longer be removed from you as it exists fully within your soul, while also closing the 'hemalurgic hole' in it to avoid the Flaw of being controlled, enabling you to have more powers without opening yourself up to external control. 2: It would allow you to overcome the 'cap' on the powers you can be granted from Hemalurgy, since in Era 2 if too many spikes are added to a soul, it stop's gaining powers, this method could allow you to circumvent this by fully integrating the power into your soul. Do this enough times, barring unforeseen consequences of this method, and you could become a Mistborn without killing anyone or becoming a Steel Inquisitor. However it's incredibly likely that this method would be extremely painful. Spoiler 17th Shard Can you burn the spikes? Like, Allomantically? For example, could they burn the steel in their head spikes? Brandon Sanderson I considered that and I eventually decided that they could, but it would be an excruciating process that would probably knock them unconscious simply by doing it. But though I feel my reasoning is sound, this is just a theory. A BOOK THEORY! Thanks for reading. Edited November 20, 2023 by JustQuestin2004
Trusk'our he/him Posted November 20, 2023 Posted November 20, 2023 9 hours ago, JustQuestin2004 said: But though I feel my reasoning is sound, this is just a theory. A BOOK THEORY! Thanks for reading. Always good to see someone come up with another Hemalurgy theory 9 hours ago, JustQuestin2004 said: So, first things first, during TLM the Set were shown to have discovered how to use hemalurgy (likely with a Nicrosil spike) to strip a Scadrian of the extra bit of Preservation's Investiture that exists in all Scadrians. The same power that creates Allomancers. The Set scientists also mentioned that they used these spikes to actually make people into Allomancers, though only briefly for an undisclosed reason. (TLM CHP 47) I believe that reason is because of Identity. Because charging a spike is just like filling a Metalmind, Identity keys it to a specific individual, the one it came from. Hide contents Czanos Would anything interesting happen if an Allomancer Burned a Hemalurgic spike, or a Feruchemist Tapped one? Brandon Sanderson Er, well, it’s possible. But you’d have to be burning a Hemalurgic spike that killed you and took your power… Just like you can’t gain anything by burning a metalmind unless you infused it yourself. So in order to improve this method, you just have to find a way to Blank the identity of either the 'Donors' or perhaps just the receiver. Most likely the former. There exist several ways to accomplish this through F-Alumnum though the man issue is actually having your donor's willing Blank their Identity. Ettmetal charged with F-Aluminum might provide a way to forcibly Blank other people's Identity though that is just speculation. This is most likely part of the equation. I think that by stripping Identity of the "muggle Scadriens" (that still makes me giggle ) you could allow their Investiture to work together cooperatively in the spike, meaning that the Hemalurgist would be able to benefit from multiple people's Investiture at once. While this would almost certainly go long strides towards filling the quota of raw Investiture, I think you'd probably need more than that to create a fully functional power that didn't work half on half off. If you took a spike that already had a power and then filled it with multiple people's Identity-free Investiture, I think that the new Investiture would be able to pick up on the "echo" or rhythm of the Investiture already in the spike, allowing the power to increase in strength. If you want multiple power spikes instead of just one really strong one you can split the spike into multiple parts, preferably in a pool of blood to prevent Hemalurgic decay. It also may be that you need to use a spike that is specifically meant to bear an Allomantic or Feruchemical power rather than nicrosil to have it competently grant it to someone as well; the raw Investiture alone probably isn't enough even when programmed correctly, as you'd need to Key it to the right metal. RoW spoilers: Spoiler I think that it's also possible that you could use the Rhythms to program Blanked spikes, using advanced skill in A-bronze and learning the Pulses from Allomantically granted powers (or perhaps Allomantic powers granted via Hemalurgy, as they may be slightly different) you could then use Intent to impart those Rhythms to the spike's Investiture, allowing it to pick it up and echo it. 9 hours ago, JustQuestin2004 said: So in order to improve this method, you just have to find a way to Blank the identity of either the 'Donors' or perhaps just the receiver. Most likely the former. There exist several ways to accomplish this through F-Alumnum though the man issue is actually having your donor's willing Blank their Identity. Ettmetal charged with F-Aluminum might provide a way to forcibly Blank other people's Identity though that is just speculation. I think that a more reliable method to forcibly Blank someone's Identity would be to graft four or more spikes onto their body, then use duralumin augmented Emotional Allomancy to wrestle control of their Spiritweb and force them to use the power granted by one of the spikes and Blank their own Identity. Ettmetal cubes seem to work as if the cube itself is using the power, so I'm skeptical if it would work as you suggest. 10 hours ago, JustQuestin2004 said: So that's how you create a power-granting Spike out of normal people, but I'm not stopping there, Hemalurgy can only grant you so many powers because your soul can only accept so many Spikes but what if there was a way around that? What if you could permanently intergrate the Spike to grant yourself the power in a deeper way? What if you tried to Compound Hemalurgy with Allomancy? It works for Feruchemy so there exists a precendent. So let's dive in. Hide contents Maru Nui What happens when you burn a Hemalurgic spike? Brandon Sanderson Burning a Hemalurgic spike would have the effect of splicing your spiritual DNA to that of the person's that is in the spike, which would have some very strange consequences. First, you'd need the previous steps, stab a bunch of muggle Scadrians while Blanking their Identity to make an Unkeyed Spike. Then, assuming it's made of Nicrosil, acquire an Electrum spike that grants A-Nicrosil, then Burn the Unkeyed Spike. If it works the same way as A-F Compounding, then it's possible that you'd be granted additional power, gaining more allomantic potency than what was in the Unkeyed Spike, potentially turning you into a Mistborn straight off like Lerasium. Though I'm going to be assuming that you will just integrate the extra Preservation into yourself, granting yourself a single Allomantic ability, probably a random one. This method, if it works like I think it does, would prove superior than just spiking yourself for 2 reasons: 1: You would have the ability without the spike, meaning the power can no longer be removed from you as it exists fully within your soul, while also closing the 'hemalurgic hole' in it to avoid the Flaw of being controlled, enabling you to have more powers without opening yourself up to external control. 2: It would allow you to overcome the 'cap' on the powers you can be granted from Hemalurgy, since in Era 2 if too many spikes are added to a soul, it stop's gaining powers, this method could allow you to circumvent this by fully integrating the power into your soul. Do this enough times, barring unforeseen consequences of this method, and you could become a Mistborn without killing anyone or becoming a Steel Inquisitor. However it's incredibly likely that this method would be extremely painful. I believe that there is a WoB saying that this doesn't work, unfortunately. I don't have the time to search for it right now though (I have to get ready for my work), but perhaps later I can. In any case, I feel that if you could just burn a spike to permanently gain its power it would be too OP. That's what Lerasium does; adding powers to a person permanently with no drawbacks. All in all, good ideas though @JustQuestin2004! 1
alder24 Posted November 20, 2023 Posted November 20, 2023 10 hours ago, JustQuestin2004 said: So that's how you create a power-granting Spike out of normal people, but I'm not stopping there, Hemalurgy can only grant you so many powers because your soul can only accept so many Spikes but what if there was a way around that? What if you could permanently intergrate the Spike to grant yourself the power in a deeper way? What if you tried to Compound Hemalurgy with Allomancy? It works for Feruchemy so there exists a precendent. So let's dive in. Reveal hidden contents Maru Nui What happens when you burn a Hemalurgic spike? Brandon Sanderson Burning a Hemalurgic spike would have the effect of splicing your spiritual DNA to that of the person's that is in the spike, which would have some very strange consequences. First, you'd need the previous steps, stab a bunch of muggle Scadrians while Blanking their Identity to make an Unkeyed Spike. Then, assuming it's made of Nicrosil, acquire an Electrum spike that grants A-Nicrosil, then Burn the Unkeyed Spike. If it works the same way as A-F Compounding, then it's possible that you'd be granted additional power, gaining more allomantic potency than what was in the Unkeyed Spike, potentially turning you into a Mistborn straight off like Lerasium. Though I'm going to be assuming that you will just integrate the extra Preservation into yourself, granting yourself a single Allomantic ability, probably a random one. This method, if it works like I think it does, would prove superior than just spiking yourself for 2 reasons: Burning spikes is very problematic. It's an excruciating process that would knock you unconscious, plus a more recent WoB states that burning a spike won't give you powers/soul pieces that were in it. This method won't work. Spoiler 17th Shard Can you burn the spikes? Like, Allomantically? For example, could they burn the steel in their head spikes? Brandon Sanderson I considered that and I eventually decided that they could, but it would be an excruciating process that would probably knock them unconscious simply by doing it. 17th Shard Would they be able to tap? Brandon Sanderson Would they tap them? They can use them as metalminds, yes. 17th Shard Interview (Oct. 3, 2010) Spoiler Questioner If you burn a Hemalurgic spike, would it graft the piece of stolen soul onto your soul? Brandon Sanderson No, but it would have... There are some interesting effects there. Shadows of Self Chicago signing (Oct. 12, 2015)
Trusk'our he/him Posted November 20, 2023 Posted November 20, 2023 5 hours ago, alder24 said: Hide contents Questioner If you burn a Hemalurgic spike, would it graft the piece of stolen soul onto your soul? Brandon Sanderson No, but it would have... There are some interesting effects there. Shadows of Self Chicago signing (Oct. 12, 2015) Thank you for finding this WoB, it's the one I was looking for but didn't have the time to drudge up.
JustQuestin2004 he/him Posted November 21, 2023 Author Posted November 21, 2023 9 hours ago, alder24 said: Burning spikes is very problematic. It's an excruciating process that would knock you unconscious, plus a more recent WoB states that burning a spike won't give you powers/soul pieces that were in it. This method won't work. Reveal hidden contents 17th Shard Can you burn the spikes? Like, Allomantically? For example, could they burn the steel in their head spikes? Brandon Sanderson I considered that and I eventually decided that they could, but it would be an excruciating process that would probably knock them unconscious simply by doing it. 17th Shard Would they be able to tap? Brandon Sanderson Would they tap them? They can use them as metalminds, yes. 17th Shard Interview (Oct. 3, 2010) Reveal hidden contents Questioner If you burn a Hemalurgic spike, would it graft the piece of stolen soul onto your soul? Brandon Sanderson No, but it would have... There are some interesting effects there. Shadows of Self Chicago signing (Oct. 12, 2015) Huh. Welp back to the drawing board.
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