how to defend against mistings/ferrings

[Odium's_Shard]

If Inquisitors ever walk the world of Scadrial again, we now have the most effective counterpoint.

Two people, holding a length of aluminium foil between them, rush the Ruin-cursed thing and smother it in Allomantically-inert goodness!

Also, aluminium shurikens/bullets could effectively counter both Wax's 'steel-bubble' effect and wouldn't be thrown off by a Slider or Pulser. Would an aluminium spike then just disable one's ability to use Allomancy? Same as a bullet, I guess.

Basically, anything that is centred around you, can be ended with an aluminium spike. Anything centred outside you, can be ended with aluminium foil. They should develop throwing knifes that trail aluminium foil nets, one to pierce the Mistborn, then to smother it.

[Voidus]

I think that aluminum either just wouldn't be affected at all by time bubbles (unlikely) or aluminum would be deflected just like everything else. The deflection is caused by weird changes in relative motion, not directly by an allomantic effect so I think aluminum bullets wouldn't help with the time-bubble problem

While on that topic, does anyone know if we have an answer about wether or not you can push/pull outside of a bubble?

[RenegadeShroom]

if aluminum can not be effected by steel, iron, zinc, and brass. would it possible be uneffected by other forms of alomancy? such as dampaning zeekers abilitys or some how having an effect on sliders?

That's an interesting thought, and it makes aluminium even more useful. You could use it to completely negate the usefulness of Seekers, Smokers, Leechers and Nicrobursts, assuming you can apply the aluminium properly. And cadmium and bendalloy would be interesting. Would you perhaps be able to become immune to the temporal changed if you were covered in aluminium? How about if you were wearing an aluminium glove and you happened to be inside a bubble? Would it just protect your hand from the bubble, and nothing else? Cause that's just insanely trippy. xD

I think someone should pose the question to Brandon: Does Aluminium affect all allomantic metals, including the higher and god-metals, or just the basic ones? It'd be totally schweet to know. =D

EDIT: I just now noticed that so far, the only allomantic powers affected by aluminium seem to be external. Iron/Steel and Zinc/Brass. Now, the reason for that seems obvious, since it can't really interact all too well with the internal equivalents. But what about tin? Would it be the same effect as Ruin/Preservation trying to look at metals, would they simply be unable to see, or otherwise sense it?

Edited March 18, 2012 by InsurrectionistFungus

[Eri she/her]

I think aluminum stops only external metals. Internal metals, like bronze, affect the user, so screening yourself with aluminum won't help.

[Voidus]

Yea I think Aluminum would be incredibly overpowered in the next series if it basically blocked all allomancy, in our era of technology it would be readily available in great quantities so that would basically make allomancers useless in combat.

[Windrunner he/him]

I do agree that aluminum would negate a lot of usefulness of Allomancers in modern eras. There are a couple of things to consider though. Only aluminum and a couple of it's alloys are inert, and you can't make everything out of aluminum. Also Brandon might choose to make Scadrial have very few natural deposits of aluminum, making it a valuable commodity. We've seen him tweak his worlds from the typical before. For example Roshar only has 80% of the gravity of Earth because he needed a way to make the bridges easier to use on the Shattered Plains. I would actually like to see Scadrial have an aluminum based economy in the future, similar to how we once were on the gold standard.

Edited March 18, 2012 by Windrunner

[Voidus]

Yeah I suppose that would be a good solution, still I think if it affected allomancy too much it could just turn into a magical fix for situations. Personally I loved how it was used in AoL but one of the things that I really love in all of Brandons novels is how creative the solutions get, I think in the next series we might even see some counter-counter measures ways to get around aluminum as I think this is probably how it would naturally evolve a kind of allomantic arms race

[Ironeyes he/him]

The aluminum economy is a really good idea. Kind of like how atium once controlled things. OR the economy could be run off of both, like gold and silver.

[Voidus]

Well considering that atium basically doesn't exist that seems a bit unlikely

But yea the Aluminum economy sounds good, bit annoying for the coinshots but seems like a good idea.

[RJWB0mb]

i think a sling would work well as a distraction weapon mattering on the ammo. you can load poisonous, explosive or stones in a sling and with practice be able to throw them if not lethaly at least well enough that your target will try to advoid you. even somthing as simple as pepper powder could cause a pewter arm to be blinded and allow you a chance to escape.

[Tarontos he/him]

Sorry if this seems like necromancy but this seamed like the best place to put this and didn't seem to merit its own thread.

As an anti blood maker weapon a catalyst that reacts with the human body, sweat, lipids, amino-acids or the like, that reacts quickly and violently could potentially kill a blood maker because catalysts are not used up in the reactions themselves. Requiring the blood maker to some how rinse off.

This may even work on Miles if you can some how douse him in it for long enough because he will eventually run out of gold to burn and healing with in his metal minds.

[Phantom Monstrosity]

Use an air rifle with nonmetallic (explosive?) bullets.

Edited March 8, 2013 by Phantom Monstrosity

[Krelian]

Sorry if this seems like necromancy but this seamed like the best place to put this and didn't seem to merit its own thread.

As an anti blood maker weapon a catalyst that reacts with the human body, sweat, lipids, amino-acids or the like, that reacts quickly and violently could potentially kill a blood maker because catalysts are not used up in the reactions themselves. Requiring the blood maker to some how rinse off.

This may even work on Miles if you can some how douse him in it for long enough because he will eventually run out of gold to burn and healing with in his metal minds.

Hydrofluoric acid, in sufficient quantities, would do the trick, as far as damage at least, I think. It wrecks havoc in the blood even after the initial burns. It would still take a long time to burn out the goldminds for a compounder though.

I think the only real weapon against gold compounders is modern explosives. Nothing in the AoL era would necessarily be enough to kill one in a single shot.

[Tarontos he/him]

Hydrofluoric acid, in sufficient quantities, would do the trick, as far as damage at least, I think. It wrecks havoc in the blood even after the initial burns. It would still take a long time to burn out the goldminds for a compounder though.

I think the only real weapon against gold compounders is modern explosives. Nothing in the AoL era would necessarily be enough to kill one in a single shot.

The issue with using an acid is that it is still used up in the reaction, The point of using a catalyst is that it is not actually a part of the reaction.

[TheChronicFeruchemist she/her]

I find the whole poison and hydrofluoric acid to be more of something you would use to assassinate mistings rather than protect yourself on a daily basis. I think a more viable way of protecting yourself would be to carry a ceramic knife (More stable than glass I think.), wooden buttons and other fasteners, etc.

Also in a modern setting a really good way of protecting metal minds would be electroplating them in aluminum.

[Kurkistan he/him]

I find the whole poison and hydrofluoric acid to be more of something you would use to assassinate mistings rather than protect yourself on a daily basis. I think a more viable way of protecting yourself would be to carry a ceramic knife (More stable than glass I think.), wooden buttons and other fasteners, etc.

Also in a modern setting a really good way of protecting metal minds would be electroplating them in aluminum.

But electroplating can't work because otherwise we would see Miles, and some other people as well, in AoL just using aluminum-plated guns, bullets, and knives instead of being wasteful and making them out of pure aluminum.

[TheChronicFeruchemist she/her]

But electroplating can't work because otherwise we would see Miles, and some other people as well, in AoL just using aluminum-plated guns, bullets, and knives instead of being wasteful and making them out of pure aluminum.

It is possible that they didn't have the technology yet(It was being invented in our world before AoL is set, but didn't become wide spread until right around that time.). But why wouldn't electroplating work and wrapping it in foil would?

[Phantom Monstrosity]

It is possible that they didn't have the technology yet(It was being invented in our world before AoL is set, but didn't become wide spread until right around that time.). But why wouldn't electroplating work and wrapping it in foil would?

Could be a thickness issue. We know that different materials block the iron/steel lines to different extents.

Someone else, however, hadn’t yet learned not to carry metal on her person. The blue lines were thin and weak—they

didn’t do well penetrating wood—but they were just strong enough to let Kelsier locate the belt latch of a person out in the hallway, moving quickly away from the door on silent feet.

Just like piercing your body with metal, aluminum is probably just very good, but not perfect.

Edited March 10, 2013 by Phantom Monstrosity

[Krelian]

Just like piercing your body with metal, aluminum is probably just very good, but not perfect.

Brandon has said some very interesting, yet cryptic things about aluminum. I'd guess its ability to shield things from Allomancy is a bit more powerful than copperclouds...

[dyring]

I doubt the electroplating would survive the process of being fired and spinning out of a firearm´s pipe.

And same, the gun may be immune from start, but after the first few shots are fired, there will be tear.

Edited March 10, 2013 by dyring

[Kurkistan he/him]

I doubt the electroplating would survive the process of being fired and spinning out of a firearm´s pipe.

And same, the gun may be immune from start, but after the first few shots are fired, there will be tear.

No real need to plate the inside of the barrel, if aluminum actually has Iron/Steel Allomancy "shielding" properties. A steel barrel could be shielded by an aluminum shell. Or you could just use the same alloy of aluminum that the Vanishers used, so it would be durable enough to coat even the inside of the barrel.

You could also have an exceptionally heavy layer of aluminum over a lead core for the bullets, if you wanted to. The main idea of my objection is that there are a lot of ways to get around having to use solid aluminum if coating stuff in aluminum was all that you needed to do.