Where is Honor ?

[Yaganim he/him]

Honor was splintered which mean is investiture was release somewere. The remains of a splintered shard are usualy hard to miss (The Dor, The Evil). However there is no such thing on Roshar. So where is Honor investiture?

-Contary to Ambition, Devotion and Dominion Honor was preapered to die. As such he likely took precautions to prevent a disaster after his splintering.

- The Stormfather hold some of Honor investiture.

- Honor perpendicularity could appear randomly before Dalinar was able to summon it.

-There is this idea that honor live in the heart of man.

My best theory is that honor manage to split is investiture betwen every human on Roshar. 

And you what are you thoughts on the matter ?

[Treamayne]

Welcome to the forums. Here are some tools you may not yet be familiar with:

Spoiler

Quote

• At the bottom left of a post you will see a "+" icon, a "Quote" link.
• At the bottom right you will see an heart icon (and possibly different reactions in the future).
• At the top right you will see a hamburger menu (three dots) which shows: Report, Share, and (your posts only) Edit and Hide tools.

Likes/Reactions:

Spoiler

• The Heart Icon (Like) is how you thank people or "like" a post
  • Likes, Mentions and Quotes should all send an alert to the appropriate person - even when added to an old post through the Edit feature.

Report Tool:

Spoiler

• Use  the Report tool to report any post (your own or others) to a forum Mod
  • Use this if you do accidentally double-post (sometimes it's the browser or a slow link that causes a double post) - just leave a message that it was an accidental double post and the Mods can fix it. If it was the first post of a new thread that doubled, they usually can merge the threads if they both have answers, so all of the content is retained.
  • For reporting Spam, only report a single post by the user to let the Mods and Admins know - they get messages for each "report" so reporting each Spam post is annoying and unnecessary. If all posts by a "new user" (bot) are all spam - then all of those posts will be deleted when that account is deleted.

Hide Tool:

Spoiler

• Use the Hide tool to hide your post if you want to remove it after posting (useful for accidental double-posts)
  • Hiding the first post in a Thread will hide the threan as long as ther have been no replies (Needs Testing)

Mentions:

Spoiler

• You can "Mention" a person by typing "@" and slowly typing their user name (spelling matters). As you spell their name, the interface will show a pop-up with matches - when you match appears, click it to add the Mention
  • Likes, Mentions and Quotes should all send an alert to the appropriate person - even when added to an old post through the Edit feature.

Quote Methods:

Spoiler

• The "Quote" link is exactly that, when you click it the quote will be added to the reply at the bottom of the thread wherever the cursor is (adding a carraige return if necessary)
  • So, if you have already started to reply before you decide to quote you can then add the quote before or after your text depending on the cursor location when you click "Quote"
• The + icon is multi-quote. As you read a thread, if you want to quote multiple items you can click that for each post you want to quote
  • As you click +, you should see a toaster pop-up on the bottom right of the browser window showing how many quotes you will have
  • They are added in the order you click the + icon, not in the original post order, so you can set the order of quotes for your reply
  • When you are ready to reply, click on the toaster pop-up and it will take you directly to the reply section and add the quotes automatically with one blank line between each for you to add your comment(s)
• Finally, you can also highlight a small section of a post and, when hovering over the highlit portion, click the "Quote Selection" button that pops up.
  • This will also be added to the cursor location, rather than the bottom of the reply.
• Also note that you can move quotes after they have been added to your reply.
  • For example, you add a quote and realize there are no empty lines below it for you to type - so you can hit "enter" before the quote to make an empty line then when you hover over a quote you will see a 4-way arrow at the top-left that you can use to drag the quote up (or down)  and move the quote to before the empty line. . .
  • This is also how you can add quotes to an Edit of your own post. You quote using any of the methods above and the quote will go to the reply section. You then hover over the four-way arrow and use CTRL+C to cut the quote, which you can then paste into your edit window.
• Likes, Mentions and Quotes should all send an alert to the appropriate person - even when added to an old post through the Edit feature.

Editing posts:

Spoiler

• Use the Edit link to make changes to a completed post or add information to your post if it is the most recent (to avoid double posting)
  • Quote buttons will still send a quote to "Reply" if you have a post open for edit, but it is easy to cut/paste the quote to the Edit box
  • Editing the first post in a thread allows the thread-creator to edit the thread title (important for changing accidental spoilers)
  • Editing allows you to add a reason for the edit (Spelling and grammar (SPAG), formatting, clarification, new information, etc.), but it is not required.
• Likes, Mentions and Quotes should all send an alert to the appropriate person - even when added to an old post through the Edit feature.

Other:

Spoiler

• Quotes and Spoilers are very similar, but here are the differences:
  • Spoiler tags are default "closed" and are not attributed - they may be opened by clicking the spoiler box title
  • Quotes are default "open" (but may be closed by clicking the Quote Title and are denoted by the basic arrow icon on the left side of the quote title), If the quote was added with one of the methods explained below, it will be attributed - if it was added with the quote icon in the Reply/Edit tools, it will not be attributed.
  • Attributed Quotes will have a curved arrow icon on the rigth side of the quote title to jump directly to the post from which the quote was taken.

Hope that helps.

Quote

Using Coppermind and Arcanum:

• Go to the Coppermind, you can search a term in the upper right. On the top-right of the page (below the search bar) you will see a circle icon that denotes how "complete" the information is (e.g. solid green means it has all known information, split white/blck means unanswered questions, etc.)
  • Like any wiki, links to other pages appear the first time they are referenced
  • While reading you will find notes ([1]) that take you to the references at the bottom of the page. From there, if the reference is a WoB the link will redirect you to the Arcanum post.
  • One useful technique (at least on PC) is to click the [1] note to go to the references section, open the reference link in a new tab, then use the browser back button to immediately return to where you were reading.
• On the Arcanum, you can read all of the WoBs from a specific event by clicking: Discover > Events, then select an event.
• When looking at a Word of Brandon (WoB - or Peter/Isaac) in the Arcanum, you can:
  • Click on the event name to read all WoBs from that event
  • Click on a tag at the bottom to make a search of all entries with that tag - such as Shards
  • The top right of the WoB has a "Copy" button, to easily copy the WoB contents to add to a forum post spoiler tag (please use soiler tags to keep posts visually short and let new people avoid spoilers if they desire)
• Also, on the Arcanum, you can search for keywords using the search bar in the upper left
  • While searching a tag, the advanced search will be at the top of the page, so you can keyword search within a specific tag (example: Searching "Honor" in #Shard tag)
• In any keyword or tag search the default view will be "accuracy"
  • Refine searches with Boolean (+/& for "and" to combine terms - e. g. Shard+Honor )
    • Note this method is unfiltered and will return more results than the tag and keyword search above
    • But they can be combined, by filtering a keyword and using a boolean search inside that tag.
  • You can be set that to "Oldest First" (avoiding spoilers) or "Newest first" (for recent additions) using the drop-down box
• For the Arcanum, learn more at Help and Navigation

 

2 hours ago, Yaganim said:

Honor was splintered which mean is investiture was release somewere. The remains of a splintered shard are usualy hard to miss (The Dor, The Evil). However there is no such thing on Roshar. So where is Honor investiture?

-Contary to Ambition, Devotion and Dominion Honor was preapered to die. As such he likely took precautions to prevent a disaster after his splintering.

- The Stormfather hold some of Honor investiture.

- Honor perpendicularity could appear randomly before Dalinar was able to summon it.

-There is this idea that honor live in the heart of man.

My best theory is that honor manage to split is investiture betwen every human on Roshar. 

And you what are you thoughts on the matter ?

Here are the known WoBs on the subject (that came up in a quick search):

Spoiler

Quote

sufficientlyadvanced

It says that it's dangerous to travel to Shadesmar on Sel. Why?

Brandon Sanderson

It has to do with the Dor and the lack of an entity controlling much of the power Odium left in his wake on Sel.

Phantine

Woah, that's interesting. I had no idea Odium left little bits of his power on Sel... I guess it kinda makes sense for evil monks to be powered by pure hate, though.

Brandon Sanderson

Odium did not leave his power behind, one should note. He left several other powers which are now, to a large extent, mindless...

Windrunner

If you wouldn't mind answering, does Roshar have a similar problem, with Honor being Splintered?

Brandon Sanderson

No, Roshar does not have the same problem. There are some differences going on. One reason being that the spren are far more extensive on Roshar, and provide something of a "release valve." The seons and the skaze on Sel are not numerous enough to fulfill a similar function. Though, of course, that's only one part of the puzzle. Raw power is dangerous.

Quote

Questioner

Can holders of Shards give them up voluntarily? If so, what would happen?

Brandon Sanderson

Yes, a Vessel for a Shard of Adonalsium can give up their power if they wish.

As for what would happen...well, there are some variables in there. Kind of like the variables in what happens to a bucket of water if you dump it out. Depends on where it falls, how strong the wind is, what the air is like.

Power dropped like this, if left alone, could end up Splintering and turning into something like spren/seons. It could become something more like the Stormfather--a large, self-aware entity. It could become something like the Dor or many of the Unmade--something proto-aware, but not truly an individual. There are other possibilities as well, depending on lots of factors. (Are sapient beings involved? what is being done with the power--is it concentrated in the Spiritual Realm as normal, or is it being pushed somewhere else?)

Quote

Argent

I thought, like, at one of the signings you told me that when Odium was on Sel and Splintered the Shards there, the reason he did the Cognitive Realm hack was because he was not yet experienced in Splintering stuff.

Brandon Sanderson

Right. He did not want what happened to happen, but he didn't know that he didn't want what happened to happen.

Argent

What I was getting at is, I could never find a recording of you saying "He was not experienced. He didn't want the power to be taken by anyone, and that's the only solution he could figure out." Does that sound like something you would say?

Brandon Sanderson

That is something I would say, yes... There are better ways to do what he wanted to do, which he later did a better job with. But there's not a lot of experimenting he could do.

Quote

Zas678

Like completely Splintered as in Dominion and Devotion.

Brandon Sanderson

Yeah. That's what-- That's the opposite of whole.

Zas678

But having a Splinter, like Endowment...

Little Wilson

Because I-- I was kind of going with "Shattered" <and> "Splintered". So Shattered would be kind of what I was going with Devotion and Dominion. 

Brandon Sanderson

Okay.

Little Wilson

And then Splintered would be more like... You mentioned that Honor kind of Splintered himself off to create the spren before--

Isaac Stewart

Oh, and that's mentioned isn't it?

Brandon Sanderson

Right, but you've got to keep in mind that-- um... So in Scadrial, Ruin and Preservation did the same thing. Their bodies are part of the world. They-- if their exist-- like, the things on the Spiritual Realm don't matter where they are in relation to each other and things like this. All those <piece> spren are still Honor, when he was alive. Does that make sense? Like, yes those are little Splinters of Honor, but they are still Honor. It's not like he's diminished, because his whole essence is the world, right? There is no diminishing that. And so that thing is we're talking about the fracturing of the mind and the killing of the Shard. That's the distinction between whole and not whole as I was making it for you there.

 

The key one to me is that what Odium did on Sel was a mistake, because he wanted to make sure that somebody else could not Ascend and that the power could not gain it's own Sapience. Odium learned from that mistake when he went after Honor and did something different - but Honor has already created his own Splinters in the Stormfather and Honorspren - I so I think the remainder of Honor's power is still in the Spiritual Realm - just blocked off from the Cognitive and Physical, which is why Honor's perpendicularity was unstable and random. . .

[Yaganim he/him]

Firstly thanks for the tips they are very useful !

Then on the topic of Honor:

 

10 hours ago, Treamayne said:

that's only one part of the puzzle. Raw power is dangerous.

I remenber reading this Wob it convince me that there was a mystery regarding Honor's death.  The existence of spren cannot explain alone the disappearance of Honor power.

11 hours ago, Treamayne said:

I so I think the remainder of Honor's power is still in the Spiritual Realm - just blocked off from the Cognitive and Physical, which is why Honor's perpendicularity was unstable and random. . .

Do you think Odium find a way to trap a shard investiture in the spiritual realm ? And what is the phenomenon that allow a perpendicularity to form from the Cognitive Realm?

[Treamayne]

5 minutes ago, Yaganim said:

Do you think Odium find a way to trap a shard investiture in the spiritual realm ? And what is the phenomenon that allow a perpendicularity to form from the Cognitive Realm?

WoBs:

Spoiler

Quote

Brandon Sanderson

So, it doesn't have to be going through the pool. What happens with a perpendicularity is, where there is a massive collection of Investiture, it pulls a conduit through. So, if you know what you're doing and where you are, you can get through that.

Questioner

So you don't have to use the pools, just where there's a huge concentration...

Brandon Sanderson

A huge concentration of Investiture will warp the realms.

Questioner

So can anyone worldhop that way, then? If they know what to do?

Brandon Sanderson

If they know what to do, in a perpendicularity, anyone should be able to get through there.

Quote

Questioner

In our universe, mass and energy curve space. I was wondering if Investiture does the same or something similar

Brandon Sanderson

It does something similar. It draws the three Realms together. So it's got like-- Imagine a gravitational pull piercing Realms. Right? Of kind of--

Questioner

And that's how a perpendicularity works?

Brandon Sanderson

That's not the only way a perpendicularity works, but one surefire way to create a perpendicularity is a massive collection of Investiture in the Cognitive or mostly Physical realm. But Cognitive's weird, doesn't always work the right way. But there are ways to do it that way too.

Salt Lake City signing (Dec. 16, 2017)

 

So, the thing to keep in mind is that the form of a perpendicularity in the Cognitive (CR) and Physical (PR) realm does not have to be a "pool." But concentrations of a Shard's power on CR and PR can create the conduit. If my theory is correct and Odium simply severed the primary Connection for the Shard's "Body" to trap it in the spiritual realm - then, because there is still Honor's investiture in the CR and PR, then sometimes a much smaller Connection forms (like the Connection Dalinar makes through Spiritual Adhesion) - and that's why Honor's perpendiculatiy was random and not always recognizable - it was forming when a temporary connection allowed the investiture to seep back through and form the conduit at the place of that Connection.

[alder24]

15 hours ago, Yaganim said:

Honor was splintered which mean is investiture was release somewere. The remains of a splintered shard are usualy hard to miss (The Dor, The Evil). However there is no such thing on Roshar. So where is Honor investiture?

-Contary to Ambition, Devotion and Dominion Honor was preapered to die. As such he likely took precautions to prevent a disaster after his splintering.

- The Stormfather hold some of Honor investiture.

- Honor perpendicularity could appear randomly before Dalinar was able to summon it.

-There is this idea that honor live in the heart of man.

My best theory is that honor manage to split is investiture betwen every human on Roshar. 

And you what are you thoughts on the matter ?

Odium on Roshar isn't able to act like he wants, he is limited by restraints placed upon him by Honor, and couldn't fully Splinter Honor - he said he will do it once he is freed from his chains in OB - we know this because Honor's death was a pertracted event, not one violent clash like in cases of Ambition or Devotion and Dominion. It's likely that Honor was Splintered because he broke his oath, rather than in the direct clash with Odium.

Another thing is that Honor prepared the Stormfather for his Splintering and Honor's Cognitive Shadow merged with the Stormfather, and with that the biggest piece of Splintered Honor is now held by the Stomrfather. The other Splintered pieces are still in SR mainly, and they don't go nuts like on Sel, because there are hundreds of thousands of Spren filled with Honor's investiture, Highstorms providing Stormlight and other things providing a release valve for all of this investiture in SR.

And yes, people have a piece of Honor with them, they have innate investiture in their soul which is made out of Honor's investiture (RoW made it clear), a tiny bit. They aren't as invested as people on Nalthis or Scadrial but that's another thing going on with Honor's investiture (same thing is happening on Sel too, but this alone isn't enough).

Honor's investiture can't be fully split between every human because it's practically infinite - if that were to happen humans would be ridiculously invested, and that's not the case. There is enough Honor's investiture cycling (changing forms, becoming energy and returning back to SR) between realms, forming new spren, fueling them, giving life to Roshar, investing everything in PR etc, to make this release valve work on Roshar and prevent raw power from going nuts, plus Odium didn't put Honor's investiture into CR, like he did on Sel. Also on Sel Seons didn't exist before the Splintering, they were sparks of investiture made during this event, unlike Spren on Roshar who predated Honor's death by long. 

We also don't know what he did with Ambition, whom he Splintered after killing Devotion and Dominion (he learned something from it and did something different with Ambition), so we can't use her as an example.

Some WoBs on which I based this:

Spoiler

Questioner

Dalinar's visions are the memories of Honor, correct?

Brandon Sanderson

Yes. Yes, they are things specifically created by Honor...

Questioner

Does that mean that the Recreance happened before Honor's death... since Dalinar sees it?

Brandon Sanderson

Yes. But Honor's death [spoilers out], is a protracted event.

Oathbringer release party (Nov. 13, 2017)

 

Spoiler

Wetlander

Did the Splintering happen before the Recreance?

Brandon Sanderson

I will reveal this as we go. However, be aware that in the past, when a Shard was killed, the person holding it, it is a slow burn to actually kill someone; because power cannot be destroyed. So, what it means to be killed means something a little different in these cases.

Hoser

Did Tanavast survive Honor's splintering?

Brandon Sanderson

Tanavast is dead. Good question. However, that is as of the start of The Way of Kings.

Hoser

So he could have survived the Splintering...

Brandon Sanderson

He could have survived the Splintering.

Hoser

...as a mortal...

Brandon Sanderson

Well, he could have survived for a time, but then he could not have then...

Hoser

...passed away in his sleep...

Brandon Sanderson

Right.

Steelheart Seattle signing (Oct. 14, 2013)

 

Spoiler

R'Shara

Did Honor and Cultivation binding Odium to the Roshar system directly cause the death stroke to Honor?

Brandon Sanderson

*sighs indecisively for a good ten seconds* RAFO. It's fiddly.

YouTube Spoiler Stream 5 (Dec. 2, 2022)

 

Spoiler

Questioner

Does the spren have to be present for a Surgebinder to have their abilities? Because with Dalinar, the Stormfather won’t be around all the time...

Brandon Sanderson

Good Question! Fortunately, the Stormfather is a little more omnipresent. Normally you’re gonna have to have your spren close, but the Stormfather absorbed... is basically Honor’s Cognitive Shadow, which means he’s got a connection to a lot of different things, so he’s not bound by a lot of the rules that others are.

Shadows of Self San Francisco signing (Oct. 9, 2015)

 

Spoiler

sufficientlyadvanced

It says that it's dangerous to travel to Shadesmar on Sel. Why?

Brandon Sanderson

It has to do with the Dor and the lack of an entity controlling much of the power Odium left in his wake on Sel.

Phantine

Woah, that's interesting. I had no idea Odium left little bits of his power on Sel... [Elantris spoilers out]

Brandon Sanderson

Odium did not leave his power behind, one should note. He left several other powers which are now, to a large extent, mindless...

Windrunner

If you wouldn't mind answering, does Roshar have a similar problem, with Honor being Splintered?

Brandon Sanderson

No, Roshar does not have the same problem. There are some differences going on. One reason being that the spren are far more extensive on Roshar, and provide something of a "release valve." The seons and the skaze on Sel are not numerous enough to fulfill a similar function. Though, of course, that's only one part of the puzzle. Raw power is dangerous.

[Mistborn spoilers out]

General Reddit 2013 (March 11, 2013)

 

Spoiler

Questioner

On all the cosmere worlds, it seem as if-- do all the humans have what you call innate Investiture?

Brandon Sanderson

Let's see...

*thinks*

I believe that they all do. I don't think that you've seen anyone without innate Investiture yet.

Questioner

Because when they don't have Breath anymore, they would get Drabs, and those don't have innate Investiture?

Brandon Sanderson

They don't have innate Investiture. And on Scadrial they have the pieces of Ruin and Preservation in them. And they do have it on Roshar.

Questioner

Which Shard is that?

Brandon Sanderson

You'll have to read and find out. *gives card*

So yes, I don't think you've seen any worlds where they don't.

Words of Radiance San Francisco signing (March 6, 2014)

 

Spoiler

little wilson

[Mistborn spoilers out]

Brandon Sanderson

[Mistborn spoilers out]  That's totally, totally viable. I mean it's basically what happened with the spren. The spren existed before even Honor was destroyed and things like that.

little wilson

So, did the-- my gosh, on Sel-- the Aons-- not the Aons-- the seons did they exist before the Splintering?

Brandon Sanderson

They did not. That's a good question. But they are not the majority of the power. They're just little pieces, they are like the sparks when something gets destroyed. The sparks are not the majority but they are the sparks that were thrown off, if that makes sense?

Holiday signing (Dec. 12, 2015)

 

Spoiler

Questioner

For Adonalsium to create the universe, therefore he must have infinite power to create an infinitely sized universe. Therefore, infinity divided by sixteen is equal to infinity. Therefore, why don't the Shards have infinite power, which they clearly don't, because they can be killed?

Brandon Sanderson

The power can't be killed. The entity controlling the power can. Infinite power existing and being able to access the infinite power are different things, and a finite mind, even added to a very powerful sense of power, isn't necessarily able to tap all of that.

Questioner

[Mistborn spoilers edited out]. Therefore, it must not have infinite power, because if you minus something from infinity, it's still infinity...

Brandon Sanderson

So, infinite power is changing forms. It's not going anywhere, right? So, the Investiture, the power, is becoming energy, which is doing work, which is being released back into the system. Nothing's growing or shrinking. It is simply changing forms, and potential energy is becoming kinetic.

Oathbringer London signing (Nov. 28, 2017)

 

[Yaganim he/him]

On 11/4/2023 at 2:58 PM, alder24 said:

Honor's Cognitive Shadow merged with the Stormfather, and with that the biggest piece of Splintered Honor is now held by the Stomrfather

Does a WoB confirm that the Stormfather hold most of honor investiture? (It is stated on Honor coppermind page but the WoB related to this statement only confirm that the Stormfather is Honor cognitive shadow.)

[alder24]

8 minutes ago, Yaganim said:

Does a WoB confirm that the Stormfather hold most of honor investiture? (It is stated on Honor coppermind page but the WoB related to this statement only confirm that the Stormfather is Honor cognitive shadow.)

I think there was a confirmation like this (I said the biggest piece, not most of Honor - there is a difference between those two), either in WoBs, or in books, but I can't find it now. However evidence points towards this conclusion - Stormfather is Honor's Cognitive Shadow (which is a big thing), he's the most invested Splinter/Spren on Roshar, and connected to Honor's remnants , as he was intended to take Honor's place. Whatever you call it: the biggest piece, Connection to Honor's power or Honor's CS, the implications are more or less the same. Stormfather functions as Honor, he isn't as powerful as Honor used to be, but the Connection to Honor's power is there. 

OB ch 57:

Quote

“You have been placed in a difficult position, my son,” Odium said. “You are the first to bond the Stormfather in his current state. Did you know that? You are deeply connected to the remnants of a god.”
[...]
Odium turned to him so sharply that Dalinar jumped. “Is that,” Odium said quietly, “an offer to release me from my bonds, coming from the man holding the remnants of Honor’s name and power?”

 

Spoiler

Questioner

I was wondering if there was a connection between when we meet Preservation in Secret History, and the way he is, and the Stormfather. Like, is he dead yet, in Secret History?

Brandon Sanderson

There is a similarity, but-- Dying for a Shard takes a long time, in a lot of cases. So, it's similar. But the Stormfather is something different, *inaudible* remnants left over after the god died. 

Questioner

So is he dead?

Brandon Sanderson

Honor is dead, yes. But, at the same time, the Stormfather is kind of his Cognitive Shadow. So-- what does "dead" mean?

Oathbringer Houston signing (Nov. 18, 2017)

 

Spoiler

Questioner

Dalinar's visions are the memories of Honor, correct?

Brandon Sanderson

Yes. Yes, they are things specifically created by Honor...

Questioner

Does that mean that the Recreance happened before Honor's death... since Dalinar sees it?

Brandon Sanderson

Yes. But Honor's death, like Preservation's death, is a protracted event.

Oathbringer release party (Nov. 13, 2017)

 

Spoiler

Questioner

You've previously said that Nightblood is the most powerful non-Shardic being in the Cosmere. Is he more powerful than the Unmade or Stormfather in terms of raw Investiture?

Brandon Sanderson

Raw Investiture? Here's the thing, when you say powerful, it can mean lots of different things. More raw Investiture than the Stormfather... probably not. Than the Unmade, probably. I would have to look, I don't have the numbers on this. But the Stormfather is very restricted in what he can do.

Orem Signing (March 16, 2019)

 

[Yaganim he/him]

3 hours ago, alder24 said:

I said the biggest piece, not most of Honor - there is a difference between those two

I agree. The coppermind also talk about the largest piece so unless it was changed recently i don't know were i heard that the Stormfather hold most of Honor power. The Stormfather is at least the biggest piece of honor we currently know about and I don't think a bigger piece could be hidden elsewhere. Regardless I apologize for my remark since it concern something you never said.

[alder24]

4 minutes ago, Yaganim said:

I agree. The coppermind also talk about the largest piece so unless it was changed recently i don't know were i heard that the Stormfather hold most of Honor power. The Stormfather is at least the biggest piece of honor we currently know about and I don't think a bigger piece could be hidden elsewhere. Regardless I apologize for my remark since it concern something you never said.

No problem at all.

[Master Silver]

I really like this topic. The two contenders for picking up the Shard are Dalinar and Kaladin. At this point we would say that Dalinar is the most heavily invested of the Knights Radiant, being bonded to the Storm Father and having sworn three ideals. But it seems to me like Kaladin is being set up to become Honor, especially, after RoW. But there are two vacancies as I see it. We need another leader of the heralds and another Honor. If Dalinar and Kaladin keep the same relationship that is easy enough. But they might also swap. I am sort of expecting Kaladin to take Jezrien's blade, and become Herald of the Wind Runners. 

 

There is also the question of how much more investiture does Dalinar need for him to be bound by the power like Odium says?

[Marabout]

I don’t think Kaladin will be Honor.  His whole journey seems to be struggling towards a point where he can finally lay down his burdens and just live a normal life.  Picking up a Shard will only Add to his burdens.  I don’t think it will be Dalinar either.  That’s just too obvious and BS’s writing tends more towards a surprise twist that makes sense in retrospect.
I also don’t think that they need new Heralds.  The only purpose of the Heralds was the Oathpact and to me the narrative seems to be moving toward unifying the populations of humans and singers, not further dividing them or re-starting the Oathpact cycle of violence.

One note of interest from the above BS questions is that he states that dropped power can become Unmade.  I’ve been thinking more and more that the Unmade on Roshar are splinters of Ambition.

[Master Silver]

Did Honor go from being in the hearts of singers, like their gem hearts to being in the hearts of men? Something worth considering. Where the tiny pieces of Honor are wouldn't diminish his power. The singers always talk about how their old gods betrayed them. Maybe that was part of it.