Trusk'our Posted October 18 Report Share Posted October 18 Scadrien's Investiture is tied directly to spiritual genetics, so their descendants should be able to leave Scadrial and still retain their Connection to Preservation and their Allomancy as long as they don't intermix with other non-Scadriens too much. Spoiler https://wob.coppermind.net/events/171/#e8301 Questioner If people from Scadrial were to colonize, like, Nalthis, and not intermarry with the people there, would their children continue to have the Scadrial Investiture, or would they have the Nalthis Investiture? In the sense that, is it genetic, or is it planetary? Brandon Sanderson Scadrial is more genetic. Questioner Than Nalthis, where they have the Breaths? Brandon Sanderson Yes. Questioner So, would their children continue to-- Brandon Sanderson Their children would continue, for a while, to have Scadrian Investiture. Questioner For a while. Could you say, like, how many generations? Brandon Sanderson I cannot. This makes me wonder; could enough Scadriens being born on another planet cause the Shard of Preservation to Connect to that planet? If I recall correctly, in TLM Marasi said something about a Perpendicularity being easier to form around a large group of Metalborn, likely due to their Invesiture. Plus, we've seen that the Everstorm (a similarly large deposit of Investiture) can be used to Connect the Fused to Roshar so as to bypass the Oathpact, probably by acting as a large source to Connect to. Basically, if this were possible, I think it may be a way for Kelsier or perhaps even the Vessel of Preservation itself to travel between worlds, as there would be a Connection to anchor them to the other world in question. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alumínio Posted October 18 Report Share Posted October 18 8 hours ago, Trusk'our said: A Investidura de Scadrien está diretamente ligada à genética espiritual, então seus descendentes devem ser capazes de deixar Scadrien e ainda manter sua Conexão com a Preservação e sua Alomancia, desde que não se misturem demais com outros não-Scadriens. Ocultar conteúdo https://wob.coppermind.net/events/171/#e8301 Questionador Se as pessoas de Scadrial colonizassem, como Nalthis, e não se casassem com as pessoas de lá, seus filhos continuariam a ter a Investidura Scadrial, ou teriam a Investidura Nalthis? No sentido de que é genético ou é planetário? Brandon Sanderson Scadrial é mais genético. Questionador Do que Nalthis, onde eles têm as respirações? Brandon Sanderson Sim. Questionador Então, seus filhos continuariam a... Brandon Sanderson Seus filhos continuariam, por algum tempo, a ter a Investidura Escadriana. Questionador Por um tempo. Você poderia dizer quantas gerações? Brandon Sanderson Eu não posso. Isso me faz pensar; poderia um número suficiente de Scadriens nascidos em outro planeta fazer com que o Fragmento de Preservação se conectasse a esse planeta? Se bem me lembro, no TLM Marasi disse algo sobre uma Perpendicularidade ser mais fácil de se formar em torno de um grande grupo de Metalborn, provavelmente devido à sua investidura. Além disso, vimos que a Tempestade Eterna (um depósito de Investidura igualmente grande) pode ser usada para Conectar os Fundidos a Roshar, de modo a contornar o Pacto de Juramento, provavelmente agindo como uma grande fonte à qual se Conectar. Basicamente, se isso fosse possível, acho que poderia ser uma forma de Kelsier ou talvez até mesmo do próprio Receptáculo de Preservação viajarem entre mundos, pois haveria uma Conexão para ancorá-los ao outro mundo em questão. this may explain why scadrial seems to act like the roman empire growing endlessly in SP and arcanum 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alder24 Posted October 18 Report Share Posted October 18 (edited) 8 hours ago, Trusk'our said: Scadrien's Investiture is tied directly to spiritual genetics, so their descendants should be able to leave Scadrial and still retain their Connection to Preservation and their Allomancy as long as they don't intermix with other non-Scadriens too much. Reveal hidden contents https://wob.coppermind.net/events/171/#e8301 Questioner If people from Scadrial were to colonize, like, Nalthis, and not intermarry with the people there, would their children continue to have the Scadrial Investiture, or would they have the Nalthis Investiture? In the sense that, is it genetic, or is it planetary? Brandon Sanderson Scadrial is more genetic. Questioner Than Nalthis, where they have the Breaths? Brandon Sanderson Yes. Questioner So, would their children continue to-- Brandon Sanderson Their children would continue, for a while, to have Scadrian Investiture. Questioner For a while. Could you say, like, how many generations? Brandon Sanderson I cannot. This makes me wonder; could enough Scadriens being born on another planet cause the Shard of Preservation to Connect to that planet? If I recall correctly, in TLM Marasi said something about a Perpendicularity being easier to form around a large group of Metalborn, likely due to their Invesiture. Plus, we've seen that the Everstorm (a similarly large deposit of Investiture) can be used to Connect the Fused to Roshar so as to bypass the Oathpact, probably by acting as a large source to Connect to. Basically, if this were possible, I think it may be a way for Kelsier or perhaps even the Vessel of Preservation itself to travel between worlds, as there would be a Connection to anchor them to the other world in question. I think that might work, but you would need a lot, and I mean a lot of Scadrians on a planet to form such Connection, and this might not be even enough for Kel anyways. Forming a Perpendicularity like Set did might require some raw investiture, or just several years of large amounts of metalborn sitting closely in a cave. Harmony is theoretically everywhere, but his mind is limited in reach, he can't be aware of all of his investiture in Cosmere - he would need to expand his mind and this might help him to become aware of his investiture on another planet. But for Kelsier that wouldn't be enough. He needs more than that. Edited October 18 by alder24 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trusk'our Posted October 18 Author Report Share Posted October 18 4 hours ago, alder24 said: I think that might work, but you would need a lot, and I mean a lot of Scadrians on a planet to form such Connection, and this might not be even enough for Kel anyways. Yeah, I figured you'd need millions of Scadriens to populate a given planet, not thousands given their individual level of Investiture isn't particularly large. 4 hours ago, alder24 said: I think that might work, but you would need a lot, and I mean a lot of Scadrians on a planet to form such Connection, and this might not be even enough for Kel anyways. Forming a Perpendicularity like Set did might require some raw investiture, or just several years of large amounts of metalborn sitting closely in a cave. Harmony is theoretically everywhere, but his mind is limited in reach, he can't be aware of all of his investiture in Cosmere - he would need to expand his mind and this might help him to become aware of his investiture on another planet. But for Kelsier that wouldn't be enough. He needs more than that. I'm curious; why specifically don't you think it would be enough for Kel? If the planet becomes Connected to Preservation, it should act as an anchor that would pull on him as he entered the CR, negating at least some of the force that ties him to Scadrial. If the force that binds him to his home world is negated enough, he should be able to leave the planet, I would think. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alder24 Posted October 18 Report Share Posted October 18 Just now, Trusk'our said: I'm curious; why specifically don't you think it would be enough for Kel? If the planet becomes Connected to Preservation, it should act as an anchor that would pull on him as he entered the CR, negating at least some of the force that ties him to Scadrial. If the force that binds him to his home world is negated enough, he should be able to leave the planet, I would think. I don't think he is tied to Preservation, Preservation is already everywhere, and in SR space has no meaning, he should be able to leave without troubles if he was tied to Preservation. He is bound to Scadrial itself. I think this is more similar to how the Dor on Sel works, with all invested arts being tied to location, because that's how investiture in CR behaves. He is basically the Dor - investiture in CR, and this investiture is tied to both Shardic intent and physical location - this is Sacdrial. Preservation's investiture growing on another planet won't change where he's tied to. Maybe if you unkeyed him he would be able to leave? But I think that would kill him, that would sever his Connection to SR which keeps him alive, and he would fade just like a Herald trapped in a gemstone does. Not to mention those planets would have to share a border in CR, he can't just jump above numerous subastrals and he would still be Connected to Scadrial, which is always stronger compared to any other place where Scadrians settled. Spoiler Blightsong (paraphrased) Is it normal for people to become Connected to an area after being there for a bit, like with Kel and wherever he was when he found the Ire, or is something special going on? Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased) It is normal for a Cognitive Shadow to get stuck to places, because they exist through investiture it is normal for them to get tied to an area. Kelsier was still in Scadrial when he found the Ire. This happened with Odium and the two shards on Roshar, Preservation to Ruin, and the Heralds. OdysseyCon 2016 (April 8, 2016) Spoiler Questioner Well you answered my question about Allomancers being able to burn metals in other realms. Is that because the Shards are sort of… My impression from the book was that the Shards were, in the Mistborn books, specifically in that area but is it because the universe is formed across all of them that that is why the metals... Brandon Sanderson So, most of the magics are not region-dependent, because the Spiritual Realm-- in the Spiritual Realm space doesn’t exist. All things are the same distance from one another. Questioner Okay, so when Kelsier is in the-- Which Realm is he in? Brandon Sanderson He’s in the Cognitive Realm. Questioner Is he seeing people from other worlds or is he-- Brandon Sanderson No, he meets some people who are traveling but Cognitive Realm is location dependent. He is on the Cognitive Realm on Scadrial and the people he runs into there-- until he kind of travels off into space, which is where he finds the fortress. Questioner So even though he’s tied to Scadrial could he go to the Cognitive Realm of other worlds? Brandon Sanderson He would have trouble getting to another planet, being a Cognitive shadow like he was. Questioner So is there some particular thing that somebody would need to have to be able to move between the realms? Brandon Sanderson A body is helpful. Depends on what their ties are and things like that. Not always, but yeah. Calamity Seattle signing (Feb. 17, 2016) 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trusk'our Posted October 18 Author Report Share Posted October 18 2 minutes ago, alder24 said: I don't think he is tied to Preservation, Preservation is already everywhere, and in SR space has no meaning, he should be able to leave without troubles if he was tied to Preservation. He is bound to Scadrial itself. I think that he's tied to Scadrial because he's Connected to Preservation- Kelsier is a Sliver of Preservation and as such has an unnaturally strong Connection to that Shard. However, Preservation itself is bound to Scadrial, which binds Kel by association. But if Preservation was Connected sufficiently to another planet, there would be a similar force drawing the Shard's presence their, allowing the Vessel to peer in and meddle with things there, out allowing Kel to travel to that place. 6 minutes ago, alder24 said: Maybe if you unkeyed him he would be able to leave? But I think that would kill him, that would sever his Connection to SR which keeps him alive, and he would fade just like a Herald trapped in a gemstone does. The Connection is what's keeping him "alive", so severing it would end up killing him completely. Perhaps if you could reroute his Connection to something else or change his Investiture to another Shard's somehow (such as Hemalurgically spiking it out and replacing it with F-gold fueled by Endowment, thus replacing that Spiritweb and its Connection) you could allow him to leave Scadrial without straight up killing him. 10 minutes ago, alder24 said: Not to mention those planets would have to share a border in CR, he can't just jump above numerous subastrals and he would still be Connected to Scadrial, which is always stronger compared to any other place where Scadrians settled. Yeah, there's some merit there- the farther the planet is from Scadrial (meaning in the CR more planets in the way), the weaker the other planet's Connection to Kelsier would be, perhaps making it too weak to counteract Scadrial's own Connection. 6 hours ago, Alumínio said: this may explain why scadrial seems to act like the roman empire growing endlessly in SP and arcanum Hmmm, another hypothesis for the Cosmere's future 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alder24 Posted October 18 Report Share Posted October 18 52 minutes ago, Trusk'our said: I think that he's tied to Scadrial because he's Connected to Preservation- Kelsier is a Sliver of Preservation and as such has an unnaturally strong Connection to that Shard. However, Preservation itself is bound to Scadrial, which binds Kel by association. It's not because he's a sliver, it's because he's a Cognitive Shadow. 53 minutes ago, Trusk'our said: But if Preservation was Connected sufficiently to another planet, there would be a similar force drawing the Shard's presence their, allowing the Vessel to peer in and meddle with things there, out allowing Kel to travel to that place. No Shard can be connected to another world in a way they are connected to their primary system. Even Autonomy creates Avatars not because she invests in different world, but because she realizes there is already her investiture that she can use instead. The coppermind said: Quote The Cognitive aspect of a recently deceased person can become a Cognitive Shadow by finding a source of Investiture to anchor themselves to the Cognitive Realm before passing on to the Beyond. The Investiture replaces the parts of the soul that connects it to the Three Realms, providing an anchor for it in the Cognitive Realm.[1][2][5] The anchor is in the Cognitive Realm, not Spiritual, not even in Physical, that's why they can't leave, as they're like the Dor, tied to location. It's not about Connection to a Shard nor a planet. 55 minutes ago, Trusk'our said: The Connection is what's keeping him "alive", so severing it would end up killing him completely. Perhaps if you could reroute his Connection to something else or change his Investiture to another Shard's somehow (such as Hemalurgically spiking it out and replacing it with F-gold fueled by Endowment, thus replacing that Spiritweb and its Connection) you could allow him to leave Scadrial without straight up killing him. Or connect him to PR and remove his connection to SR. In RoW Kalak said "or". RoW ch 92: Quote "The bond is what keeps us alive. You sever that, and we will slowly decompose into ordinary souls—with no valid Connection to the Physical or Spiritual Realms. Capture one of us with your knives, and you won’t be left with a spren in a jar, foolish ones. You’ll be left with a being that eventually fades away into the Beyond." But I'm not really sure that's it, it feels weird. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alumínio Posted October 18 Report Share Posted October 18 2 hours ago, Trusk'our said: Sim, imaginei que seriam necessários milhões de Scadriens para povoar um determinado planeta, e não milhares, dado que seu nível individual de investidura não é particularmente grande. Estou curioso; por que especificamente você não acha que seria suficiente para Kel? Se o planeta se tornar Conectado à Preservação, deverá atuar como uma âncora que o puxaria quando ele entrasse no CR, negando pelo menos parte da força que o liga a Scadrial. Se a força que o liga ao seu mundo natal for suficientemente negada, ele deverá ser capaz de deixar o planeta, eu acho. a cognitive shadow is how he sees himself and how people see him, perhaps the issue is not Kel connection with the planet but with the collective imagination of the people of that place, as people outside of scadrial have no idea whatsoever of how he is he cannot maintain himself in the cognitive realm of that place. Maybe if he becomes very famous abroad he will get what he wants 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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