Trusk'our he/him Posted October 15, 2023 Posted October 15, 2023 (edited) Because people tend to anthropomorphize objects they have a presence that can be interacted with in the Cognitive Realm. But what if humans didn't view objects in such a light? If nobody thought of objects as alive, would they no longer have such a presence in the Cognitive Realm? And what about Spren? Most are shaped by human perception, though the gaining of a mind will happen to any large body of Investiture given enough time and not devoted to a specific task. So how would Spren form on Roshar if people didn't think of objects and nature as people? Edited October 15, 2023 by Trusk'our
alder24 Posted October 15, 2023 Posted October 15, 2023 34 minutes ago, Trusk'our said: Because people tend to anthropomorphize objects they have a presence that can be interacted with in the Cognitive Realm. But what if humans didn't view objects in such a light? If nobody thought of objects as alive, would they no longer have such a presence in the Cognitive Realm? Everything has a mind because that's the result of investiture and its desire for sapience. There was a short WoB specifically about it, but I can't find it. 34 minutes ago, Trusk'our said: And what about Spren? Most are shaped by human perception, though the gaining of a mind will happen to any large body of Investiture given enough time and not devoted to a specific task. So how would Spren form on Roshar if people didn't think of objects and nature as people? Spren are purposeful Splinters made by Shards. Without human perception shaping them, Shardic perception would shape them, or they would shape themself, or take the form of some fundamental forces of Cosmere, as they are a piece of those forces. They would still exist, just be a bit more alien. The shape of a spren is more susceptible to perception, but what they are, what they represent is in SR, there is a spiritual ideal that spren represent. Spoiler Just_A_Silvereye In the cosmere, if everyone on a planet believes unicorns exist, would some kind of unicorn shadow appear in the Cognitive Realm as a result? If yes, could you create an actual, physical unicorn out of it? Brandon Sanderson No, it's not going to quite work this way. What's going to happen if everyone believes unicorns exist, but they don't, there's various things that could happen. You might end up with some Investiture taking on this persona and becoming this, but it's not like you can create it, but over time you might end up with the equivalent of a spren. Then it's not going to be just a physical unicorn running around. It's gonna have more spren aspects, and my guess would be that over time these things feed each other. Right? Like people see one, and then they describe, "This is what it looked like," and that changes the public perception to better match. And then over thousands of years what you end up with is, "Hey there's things in the forest over there that are a type of mysterious creature that are transparent and look a little like a horse with a horn, but maybe fly," or things like this. You would end up with something in the middle, between the two of them. Things wouldn't naturally pop up on Shadesmar unless there's free Investiture in that same sort of way. YouTube Spoiler Stream 5 (Dec. 2, 2022) Spoiler Kurkistan Are flamespren, are they all doing their own thing, or is there some Ideal of "Fire" sitting in the Spiritual Realm that they're all based on? Brandon Sanderson Each spren is based on the Ideal of Fire. Kurkistan And is that sitting in the Spiritual Realm? Brandon Sanderson Yes, we're using sort of a Platonic Ideal, and that concept is in force, so *sounds hesitant* "yes", but [spren] are manifestations of it. [...] Words of Radiance Philadelphia signing (March 21, 2014)
Treamayne Posted October 15, 2023 Posted October 15, 2023 1 hour ago, Trusk'our said: Because people tend to anthropomorphize objects they have a presence that can be interacted with in the Cognitive Realm. But what if humans didn't view objects in such a light? Thiis is a false correlation - it doesn't have anything to do with anthropomorphication. TES Spoilers; Spoiler “All right,” she said, standing and walking to the wall of her room. “Let’s talk about Forgery. Your cage for me had a wall of forty-four types of stone, mostly as a trap to keep me distracted. I had to figure out the makeup and origin of each block if I wanted to try to escape. Why?” “So you could create a Forgery of the wall, obviously.” “But why all of them?” she asked. “Why not just change one block or a few? Why not just make a hole big enough to slip into, creating a tunnel for myself?” “I…” He frowned. “I have no idea.” Shai rested her hand against the outer wall of her room. It had been painted, though the paint was coming off in several sections. She could feel the separate stones. “All things exist in three Realms, Gaotona. Physical, Cognitive, Spiritual. The Physical is what we feel, what is before us. The Cognitive is how an object is viewed and how it views itself. The Spiritual Realm contains an object’s soul—its essence—as well as the ways it is connected to the things and people around it.” “You must understand,” Gaotona said, “I don’t subscribe to your pagan superstitions.” “Yes, you worship the sun instead,” Shai said, failing to keep the amusement out of her voice. “Or, rather, eighty suns—believing that even though each looks the same, a different sun actually rises each day. Well, you wanted to know how Forgery works, and why the emperor’s soul will be so difficult to reproduce. The Realms are important to this.” “Very well.” “Here is the point. The longer an object exists as a whole, and the longer it is seen in that state, the stronger its sense of complete identity becomes. That table is made up of various pieces of wood fitted together, but do we think of it that way? No. We see the whole. “To Forge the table, I must understand it as a whole. The same goes for a wall. That wall has existed long enough to view itself as a single entity. I could, perhaps, have attacked each block separately—they might still be distinct enough—but doing so would be difficult, as the wall wants to act as a whole.” “The wall,” Gaotona said flatly, “wants to be treated as a whole.” “Yes.” “You imply that the wall has a soul.” “All things do,” she said. “Each object sees itself as something. Connection and intent are vital. Unless you are specifically only referencing lesser spren (rainspren, flamespren) in which case they were created by Adonalsium that way. Human perception had some influence on Higher Spren (Honorspren, Ashspren) - but even that isn't about Human perception or anthropomorphication of an object so much as it is ideas about how the surges are viewed and which traits are associated with which surge (Lightspren (Reachers) grant the surge of Cohesion because both Light and Strong Axial Forces are associated with thoughs of freedom and reduction of constraints). 1
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