Hemalurgic Bugs

[Trusk'our he/him]

I got an idea from the bees my family used to keep- you can put tags on their thoraxes to help track them (such as separating the queen from the workers and drones), but they can still fly alright.; could you potentially use some really small spikes to implant into an insect (such as a housefly or honeybee) to Bond and control them, using them to act as a tracker or as a distraction against enemies?

Plus, they would have a very weak Cognitive Aspect I would think, so perhaps you wouldn't need four spikes to control them, but only two or three?

Also, as a bit of a side note, how easy would peering out of the eyes of a creature you've dominated via Hemalurgy be? We've seen Vin do it with TenSoon, so would it be a matter of more spikes to make their soul easier to access, or would F-duralumin's Connection boost be more necessary for peering through your fly pet's compound eyes?

Edited October 13, 2023 by Trusk'our

[The Sibling she/her]

6 hours ago, Trusk'our said:

I got an idea from the bees my family used to keep- you can put tags on their thoraxes to help track them (such as separating the queen from the workers and drones), but they can still fly alright.; could you potentially use some really small spikes to implant into an insect (such as a housefly or honeybee) to Bond and control them, using them to act as a tracker or as a distraction against enemies?

My family also keeps bees! I feel like it would be really hard to spike them but I don't see why it wouldn't work.

The real reason I'm commenting is to say that Hemalurgic bugs should be called Hugs.

[Trusk'our he/him]

1 hour ago, The Sibling said:

The real reason I'm commenting is to say that Hemalurgic bugs should be called Hugs.

Lol, especially when they're bees. Now that would be a weapon to fear .

1 hour ago, The Sibling said:

My family also keeps bees!

Well, we used to have bees.

My dad got stung once (beekeeper suits aren't as sting proof as people think, especially around the gloves), but it was fine- he had been allergic to bee stings when he was a kid but had visited an allergist who had, over the course of a year, trained his body to no longer overreact to their venom.

Unfortunately, it turns out that getting stung once can reset the whole immune system's response somehow, because when he got stung the next time he went into shock.

My mom burst into the house barely able to drag my dad and I had to carry him to the car, as he could no longer stand on his own and barely was maintaining consciousness.

My mom quickly drove him to the hospital (nearly getting into three separate accidents on the way) and my dad got the treatment he needed. He was fine by the end of it all, but needless to say, we had to get rid of the bees after that (we sold them to another beekeeper who we knew would take care of them well).

And that's the story of why we no longer have bees 

[alder24]

14 hours ago, Trusk'our said:

I got an idea from the bees my family used to keep- you can put tags on their thoraxes to help track them (such as separating the queen from the workers and drones), but they can still fly alright.; could you potentially use some really small spikes to implant into an insect (such as a housefly or honeybee) to Bond and control them, using them to act as a tracker or as a distraction against enemies?

Plus, they would have a very weak Cognitive Aspect I would think, so perhaps you wouldn't need four spikes to control them, but only two or three?

Also, as a bit of a side note, how easy would peering out of the eyes of a creature you've dominated via Hemalurgy be? We've seen Vin do it with TenSoon, so would it be a matter of more spikes to make their soul easier to access, or would F-duralumin's Connection boost be more necessary for peering through your fly pet's compound eyes?

Just one question - why? Why insects from everything that exists? Really? Spike bee to keep track of them? REALLY? WHY?  

I think insects have to tiny and fragile spiritweb to survive any Hemalurgic spiking. 

[Trusk'our he/him]

4 hours ago, alder24 said:

Just one question - why? Why insects from everything that exists? Really? Spike bee to keep track of them? REALLY? WHY?  

1. Cause it's funny to see your reaction 

2. (the real reasons) Because nobody is going to guess that miniscule bug on their back windshield is actually a tracking device/biological spy cam- it's clearly a novel enough idea based on your reaction that few people would ever think to protect against it, kind of like how nobody suspected TenSoon of impersonating Vin's dog. Plus, attacking your enemies with a swarm of angry bees sounds like a pretty compelling deterrent.

4 hours ago, alder24 said:

I think insects have to tiny and fragile spiritweb to survive any Hemalurgic spiking. 

Interesting. I hadn't thought about that, but maybe that would be the case. Maybe spiking a horde of rodents instead?

NO, WAIT- spike a pack of raccoons to do your bidding! They have opposable thumbs and could break into people's houses to grab stuff for you. Nobody would bat an eye at you for raccoons "randomly" stealing something. Plus, maybe you could teach them to handle Hemalurgic spikes as well with those thumbs. . . actually, maybe that's going a bit too far- you might end up with a semi-Inquisitor racoon trying to kill you and take over the pack (Though that might make a fun MAG adventure).

But in all seriousness, a racoon servant might be fun 

[alder24]

1 hour ago, Trusk'our said:

1. Cause it's funny to see your reaction 

You're making me blush... 

1 hour ago, Trusk'our said:

2. (the real reasons) Because nobody is going to guess that miniscule bug on their back windshield is actually a tracking device/biological spy cam- it's clearly a novel enough idea based on your reaction that few people would ever think to protect against it, kind of like how nobody suspected TenSoon of impersonating Vin's dog. Plus, attacking your enemies with a swarm of angry bees sounds like a pretty compelling deterrent.

Every Coinshot, Lurcher, Mistborn and insectophob would know. Too little charge and too many legs to not be detectable by them.

1 hour ago, Trusk'our said:

Interesting. I hadn't thought about that, but maybe that would be the case. Maybe spiking a horde of rodents instead?

Or a rodent?  Just one! You don't need to be the Pied Piper. With a horde of rodents just order them to eat your opponent.  

1 hour ago, Trusk'our said:

Nobody would bat an eye at you for raccoons "randomly" stealing something.

I would because there are no raccoons in Poland  Here we have families of boars just strolling around towns (they even use pedestrian crossings).

1 hour ago, Trusk'our said:

Plus, maybe you could teach them to handle Hemalurgic spikes as well with those thumbs. . .

No, you need intent. Such animals would not be able to understand what Hemalurgy is, what it does and how to use it. They can't provide intent, not to mention precision.

1 hour ago, Trusk'our said:

But in all seriousness, a racoon servant might be fun 

I like squirrels more, they're cute - too cute for spikes. Warbreaker spoilers:

Spoiler

That's why it's better to use Awakening if you want to have a servant like this. A simple bug can be made into a Lifeless and serve you like you proposed. A squirrel or raccoon can be a perfect servant. And nobody would steal them from you. That's taxidermy on another level.

Important note for the comment below - when giving a command to a Lifeless, their brain capacity is a very important factor to determine how well they will follow your command. Too complicated command will only confuse them and they won't follow it. I expect the same to apply in Hemalurgic control - your "construct" have to have some level of intelligence to follow your more abstract commands.

Going back to bugs, they don't have much brain and intelligence to begin with. The simplest commands might be too much for them, if they even would be able to understand them. 

[Trusk'our he/him]

1 hour ago, alder24 said:

You're making me blush... 

Hmmm 

1 hour ago, alder24 said:

Every Coinshot, Lurcher, Mistborn and insectophob would know. Too little charge and too many legs to not be detectable by them.

Wouldn't the Identity/Spiritweb still block regular Steel/iron Allomancy? Humans aren't considered to be particularly Invested normally, yet metals in close enough proximity to their Spiritwebs block such methods of manipulation.

But yeah, insectephobes would be a problem. And insecticides. And probably the bug's lifespan.

1 hour ago, alder24 said:

Or a rodent?  Just one! You don't need to be the Pied Piper. With a horde of rodents just order them to eat your opponent.  

Spoiler

 

1 hour ago, alder24 said:

I would because there are no raccoons in Poland  Here we have families of boars just strolling around towns (they even use pedestrian crossings).

Location location, my friend 

 

1 hour ago, alder24 said:

I like squirrels more, they're cute - too cute for spikes. Warbreaker spoilers:

  Hide contents

That's why it's better to use Awakening if you want to have a servant like this. A simple bug can be made into a Lifeless and serve you like you proposed. A squirrel or raccoon can be a perfect servant. And nobody would steal them from you. That's taxidermy on another level.

Important note for the comment below - when giving a command to a Lifeless, their brain capacity is a very important factor to determine how well they will follow your command. Too complicated command will only confuse them and they won't follow it. I expect the same to apply in Hemalurgic control - your "construct" have to have some level of intelligence to follow your more abstract commands.

Going back to bugs, they don't have much brain and intelligence to begin with. The simplest commands might be too much for them, if they even would be able to understand them. 

Warbreaker spoilers:

Spoiler

Good points, especially considering the idea that you wouldn't want to have your servants stolen away from you. It would be cheaper to collect them though, as you could take a single spike, melt it down into thousands of tiny pins and use those. That would be cheaper than a single Breath for every Lifeless bug or critter under your command, and it would be more accessible to non-Nalthians as well.

 

2 hours ago, alder24 said:

Going back to bugs, they don't have much brain and intelligence to begin with. The simplest commands might be too much for them, if they even would be able to understand them. 

That's a fair point- Koloss controlled by Vin couldn't even do anything more complex than "attack", "don't attack", "stay", or "go", so bugs probably could only be expected to do bug-like activities, such as "swim in my roommate's cereal", or "eat the couch cushions", or "bite that guy".

But if you could track them via Connection (as we know Vin was able to do with her Koloss minions) then you could still conceivably use them to track someone, or perhaps you could command them to fly around an area and peer through their eyes like a little camera (like Vin with TenSoon in WoA).

2 hours ago, alder24 said:

No, you need intent. Such animals would not be able to understand what Hemalurgy is, what it does and how to use it. They can't provide intent, not to mention precision.

True. What if you first increased their intelligence and then controlled them? 

Quote

https://wob.coppermind.net/events/105/#e1089

Satsuoni

Is it possible to give cats intelligence with Hemalurgy? Or transfer cat's identity to a human?

Brandon Sanderson

Hemalurgy can do some very, very odd things. And the endowment of intelligence is a common result of tinkering with Shard-based magic.

Then you'd have a Rocket knockoff as a buddy .

[alder24]

1 hour ago, Trusk'our said:

Wouldn't the Identity/Spiritweb still block regular Steel/iron Allomancy? Humans aren't considered to be particularly Invested normally, yet metals in close enough proximity to their Spiritwebs block such methods of manipulation.

What charge do you want to put in those spikes for insects? Is this spike a new made small spike or a large spike melted down and reforged into hundreds of smaller ones? Make a spike out of humans and you will make terrible monsters if not outright kill that insect. Make a spike out of insects and the amount of charge stolen is basically minimal. Put that spike in an insect body, and the body and its soul is so little invested, that it would provide no resistance to the Steelpush.

So yes, they will see it for sure, and I'm pretty sure there was at least one moment whan Wax pushed a metalmind, so pushing a tiny spike with a tiny charge in a tiny bug would be almost like pushing a normal piece of metal.

1 hour ago, Trusk'our said:

But yeah, insectephobes would be a problem. And insecticides. And probably the bug's lifespan.

And a slipper.

1 hour ago, Trusk'our said:

Location location, my friend 

Are there raccoons in the Elendel Basin? I think there are lions and giraffes in the Roughs so the location is closer to Europe than to North America. And I doubt there are raccoons running around the Elendel city - choose dogs, or cats, or birds, or rats, or something like that. 

1 hour ago, Trusk'our said:

or perhaps you could command them to fly around an area and peer through their eyes like a little camera (like Vin with TenSoon in WoA).

That probably would wreck your brain - did you see zoomed fly eyes? They have thousands of lenses. Bee has 5 eyes. Not to mention insects have a much stronger sense of taste, smell or touch than we humans have - they have different primary senses than we humans do and that would just confuse our brain.

1 hour ago, Trusk'our said:

True. What if you first increased their intelligence and then controlled them? 

Then you'd have a Rocket knockoff as a buddy .

I would call it animal abuse, but yes, sure. But you won't get a "buddy" you will have an arch nemesis - that intelligent animal would now hate you forever for what you did to its body and how you enslave it - it will plan and use any opportunity to kill you. 

Spoiler

 

Edit: Oh my, I'm a Mistborn now! Where did I leave my vial with metal flakes?

Edited October 14, 2023 by alder24

[+Bzhydack he/him]

5 hours ago, alder24 said:

I would because there are no raccoons in Poland. Here we have families of boars just strolling around towns (they even use pedestrian crossings).

They actually are  Never saw one, but I know population of racoons is rising in Europe, in Poland too, they are very nasty invasive species.

Spiking bugs could work very well. But I think ants would be better - they are able to much more complicated actions, and are less likely to be seen - because they dont generate sound.

Rats are also good idea, we can also go for some unsuspicious bird, like pigeon, crow or magpie (or parrot in proper climate. But they are invasive species in Europe too).