Chaos he/him Posted September 21, 2010 Report Share Posted September 21, 2010 I'm putting this topic here since it may have some Mistborn spoilers, too, in order to bolster my argument. We all wonder what Shard the Almighty has. Well, maybe it's really simple. Dalinar always gets signals of "Unite them", over and over. This is almost identical to Ruin's "Kill them" for Zane. Both Shards in those cases could only send general messages, as they were inhibited (though the Almighty being inhibited by death is a little more extreme than Ruin's imprisonment). So, since "Kill them" had a direct tie with Ruin's nature, "Unite them" probably relates to the Almighty's nature. So, therefore, a few candidates: Unity Honor In my mind when I read WoK, I was thinking that he was Unity. Now, I'm backpedaling and going with Honor. Honor and Odium (effectively meaning Hatred) has a nice duality to it. Cultivation doesn't fit with that, but... maybe she came to Roshar later? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Link Von Kelsier Harvey he/him Posted September 21, 2010 Report Share Posted September 21, 2010 There's no reason they have to be paired off, or even come in matching sets. They could just be three unrelated Shards who found themselves in the same place. But, yeah, when I heard, "Unite them" three or four times, I started calling the Vision Giver (I hadn't finished the book yet, but assumed they must be from a shard) Unity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaos he/him Posted September 21, 2010 Author Report Share Posted September 21, 2010 The only reason I'm now leaning to Honor is the honorspren and how they are related to the Knights Radiant seems telling. Also, Honor would still include "unite them" just like Ruin is similar to "kill them". I know, they don't have to be opposing, but in this case, it is possible that they are brought together here because they oppose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryan he/him Posted September 22, 2010 Report Share Posted September 22, 2010 The most exact polar opposite to Odium that I can think of is Charity. Does that fit what we know of the Almighty? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Munin he/him Posted September 22, 2010 Report Share Posted September 22, 2010 The most exact polar opposite to Odium that I can think of is Charity. Does that fit what we know of the Almighty? Not really. I mean, he seems like a nice guy, but other than that... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KChan she/her Posted September 25, 2010 Report Share Posted September 25, 2010 Honor does seem to fit, since that seems to be a major theme in the book. We have honorspren, the Knights Radiant, even The Way of Kings itself. Though Unity has a nice touch to it, as well. Inspiration, perhaps? For giving visions, and how a leader is supposed to inspire feelings of respect and honor in others. Hmm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silus - Shard of Flame he/him Posted September 30, 2010 Report Share Posted September 30, 2010 How about Transformation? The Vorin religion refers to him as Elianthile(sp?), "He who transforms". And, with Geranid's Principle, change is a vital part of the spren, which would make them part of the Almighty's magic. I hope that logic makes sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChicagoWillshaper he/him Posted October 6, 2010 Report Share Posted October 6, 2010 Honor and Odium (effectively meaning Hatred) has a nice duality to it. I like it... Honor to bind them. Hate to drive them apart. Works for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deano Stormblessed he/him Posted October 7, 2010 Report Share Posted October 7, 2010 *Minor Elantris Spoiler* I have one thing to say: Shu-Keseg. Yes, the Elantris religion based on the concept of 'unity'. Related to the Almighty? We already know that Odium has visited Sel, so why not the Almighty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew the Great he/him Posted October 7, 2010 Report Share Posted October 7, 2010 Because there are other Shards on Sel, and the Almighty is plenty busy with Roshar. Odium has direct reason to want to visit Sel, namely killing Aona and Skai. The Almighty has no such motivation, since he's not planning on killing any other Shards. I don't see why he'd randomly jaunt off to another Shardworld that he has no standing interest in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deano Stormblessed he/him Posted October 8, 2010 Report Share Posted October 8, 2010 Because there are other Shards on Sel, and the Almighty is plenty busy with Roshar. Odium has direct reason to want to visit Sel, namely killing Aona and Skai. The Almighty has no such motivation, since he's not planning on killing any other Shards. I don't see why he'd randomly jaunt off to another Shardworld that he has no standing interest in. Who can fathom the thinking of a shard? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zas678 he/him Posted October 8, 2010 Report Share Posted October 8, 2010 Brandon Sanderson. Oh! And Hoid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ROSHtafARian Posted October 12, 2010 Report Share Posted October 12, 2010 I don't think Honor fits for the Almighty, as it only focuses on one of the ten Orders of Knights Radiant, most specifically Kaladin's Order. Yeah, it was a major theme of the book, but it was Kaladin's book, so it makes sense that his trait would be the defining one thematically. I don't think we can safely say that the whole series and the Almighty are similarly defined by that. Especially as learning, honesty, justice, and the traits of all the other Orders are opposite of Odium's nature as well. I think the Almighty would have to be something that encompasses or embodies all the traits of the ten Orders, like Philium, which is essentially Love and creation, and the exact opposite of Odium and desolation. The individual traits of the orders could be splinters of the almighty's shard, one specific aspect of philium or charity or whatever his shard is, maybe carved off by the Almighty himself and granted to humanity, much like I imagine Endowment does on Nalthis (as Returned are supposed to be Splinters and I don't think there's any reason to believe Endowment is dead). However, I'm convinced Odium does have a polar opposite to counterweight his shard's nature, like Ruin and Preservation balanced each other...its the only way Adonalsium could have been a balanced entity instead of leaning more towards having a darker nature or a lighter nature. That said, I'm not entirely convinced the Almighty has to be that opposite shard. He's referred to as He Who Transforms, and I think Transformation certainly seems a good fit for him, or Change, or whatever...just because he and Odium are both on Roshar doesn't mean the dynamic between them is the same as the shards on Scadrial. Cultivation is there too after all. Come to think of it, its said that humanity was cast out of the Tranquiline Halls by Odium and the Voidbringers....but nowhere does it say (to my memory) that the Almighty came with them from the Tranquiline Halls. There could be another world out there, the Tranquiline Halls, and that's where Odium's opposite shard is, and Odium corrupted or somehow resulted in humanity being exiled from that perfect world, and coming to Roshar...where Transormation and Cultivation could have already been. I think the Shin are Cultivation's people, and the fact that they and their land is so different from the rest of Roshar makes me think they were the original natives of Roshar, and were there before the conflict between Odium and the Almighty or whoever else brought other humans and Voidbringers to Roshar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew the Great he/him Posted October 12, 2010 Report Share Posted October 12, 2010 Who can fathom the thinking of a shard? Well apparently you, as you made a guess at the thinking of a Shard exactly one post before I did. Also, it's important to note that while the Shards really aren't human anymore, they once were. And so far, each and every one of them has had a reason for all of their actions, even if it's just that their Shard's nature is to want to screw the entire planet over. A couple of clarifying notes: There is no confirmation whatsoever that Returned are Splinters of Endowment (in fact, in my opinion, the fact that Endowment is still alive is reason to believe the opposite). There is no confirmation whatsoever that the Elantrians are Splinters of Aona. Is it possible? Yes. Is there anything other than speculation to make us believe it is so? Not really. Ok, so that really wasn't very much on clarification, but still. I agree that the Almighty isn't any one trait matched to an Order of Radiants. I still think that Change or Transformation are good concepts for him. I am not convinced that Odium has a polar opposite, and I seem to recall Brandon saying somewhere that not all Shards do. I'll try to dig it up, but until I find the quote, don't take this as fact. I often misremember stuff. Just out of curiosity, why do you think the Shin worship Cultivation? That seems a little odd to me, as the Shin hold stone to be sacred (and apparently stormlight as well). Stone doesn't exactly lend itself well to cultivation, you know? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ROSHtafARian Posted October 12, 2010 Report Share Posted October 12, 2010 Actually it is confirmed that Returned are Splinters of Endowment. I don't have the link, but Brandon's said so specifically in an interview. Seons being Splinters of Aona are a popular theory, but that's not confirmed, but the Returned is. But again, Lightsong is given a choice to Return by a voice in Warbreaker which would seem to indicate that Endowment's not dead, or at least its consciousness is still active. As for Odium having a polar opposite, right, Brandon's said not all Shards have an opposite and I don't believe shards like Cultivation and Endowment have opposites. But the more extreme shards on either end of the spectrum, with natures aligned towards the positive or the negative, I believe these are the shards likely to have opposites, because as I said, this is the only way they could all be pieces of a BALANCED entity or force. If there isn't a shard with an equal and opposite nature to Odium, then Adonalsium would have been an entity or force more weighted or inclined towards hatred, without a counterweight for Odium's aspect. Now, this is possible, but I find it unlikely. Shards like Ruin have Preservation to counter them, shards like Odium have a benevolent opposite to counter it, whereas Shards in the middle of the spectrum like Endowment or Cultivation can go either way, and thus require no balancing or opposite number. As for the Shin and Cultivation, I never said I think the Shin worship Cultivation. Not all Shards are associated with religions. I said I think the Shin are Cultivation's people, her domain, as it were. Their land is the most earth like, with no adaptations for the highstorms that plague the rest of Roshar, and its protected from the storms...grass, crops, other things are free to grow there naturally and be cultivated....similarly the Shin seem a generally peaceful and benevolent race, one of nurturers compared to the warlike people that dominate the rest of Roshar. I find it most likely that the Shin and their lands are most touched by Cultivation's influence...but that doesn't mean they worship her. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew the Great he/him Posted October 12, 2010 Report Share Posted October 12, 2010 Actually it is confirmed that Returned are Splinters of Endowment. I don't have the link, but Brandon's said so specifically in an interview. I just found something about Lightsong having a splinter of the divine nature in him in an interview, so it would appear that you're right. Though I wonder if a splinter in this instance is the same as a Splinter? Good call on that one. And now it's time for me to go read the rest of that interview, since I actually hadn't seen it before. I agree that Odium likely has Shards that have an overall benevolent nature to counter it. Like, say, Endowment, amongst others. I just don't think that Odium has to have a polar opposite as that would be something like Love, which is just kind of a lame Shard. Several benevolent Shards can balance one that isn't. In fact, so far as we know, of the Shards we've seen, only Ruin and Odium (and possibly Bavadin) are not benevolent-natured Shards. It would seem that Odium not having a polar opposite would work better in making up a balanced whole. About the Shin and Cultivation, that makes a lot more sense. For whatever reason, I was reading it as them worshiping her, which really doesn't make all the much sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaos he/him Posted October 13, 2010 Author Report Share Posted October 13, 2010 Not all Shards have to have polar opposites, for sure. If Shinovar were Cultivation's domain, that would imply that spren are not of Cultivation, which I'm not certain of at the moment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ari he/him Posted October 15, 2010 Report Share Posted October 15, 2010 The most exact polar opposite to Odium that I can think of is Charity. Does that fit what we know of the Almighty? If we're going for a direct opposite of Odium, I think your best candidate would be something like Philius. (which would be "Love") But I don't think that's likely. Brandon wouldn't need to keep an obvious choice like Unity or Loyalty or Love secret- most likely there's something spoilery in the Almighty's shard name, so it stands to reason it can't be immediately obvious. It would really help if we had a better hang on what magics are influenced by Cultivation and Odium to figure it out, but then again, perhaps we deliberately haven't been given enough information to figure it out for that very reason. As the others have said, not only does the Almighty not need to be a shard with an opposite, he also doesn't need to be Odium's opposite- it's entirely possible that Roshar and another world have traded off half of each others' pairs, or that Rayse/Odium killed his opposite already on Sel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kykeon Posted October 20, 2010 Report Share Posted October 20, 2010 (edited) IMHO, it's weird that ruin and preservation ended up on the same planet when there are so many other shards. YES, I know that normal laws of statistics don't apply that strongly, but something tells me that they were a whole being once that got split further after the initial separation of Adonalsium's aspects. @OP Unity sounds right. Edited October 16, 2012 by Kykeon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kykeon Posted October 20, 2010 Report Share Posted October 20, 2010 (edited) The most exact polar opposite to Odium that I can think of is Charity. Does that fit what we know of the Almighty? That would be very ironic since the idea of Charity is the exact opposite of the Vorin culture. Edited October 16, 2012 by Kykeon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shivertongue he/him Posted October 20, 2010 Report Share Posted October 20, 2010 As the others have said, not only does the Almighty not need to be a shard with an opposite, he also doesn't need to be Odium's opposite- it's entirely possible that Roshar and another world have traded off half of each others' pairs, or that Rayse/Odium killed his opposite already on Sel. This seems very likely to me. Remember, Odium is Hate. One doesn't need to be the exact opposite or even a near opposite to oppose hate. My guess, based off of no evidence whatsoever, is that the Almighty was paired, somehow, with Cultivation, that they are aspects that compliment each other. So what compliments Cultivation? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emeralis00 she/her Posted October 21, 2010 Report Share Posted October 21, 2010 cultivation Part of Speech: noun Definition: nurture, help Synonyms: advancement, advocacy, development, encouragement, enhancement, fostering, furtherance, patronage, promotion, support Antonyms: destruction, harm, hurt, neglect any fit? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zas678 he/him Posted October 21, 2010 Report Share Posted October 21, 2010 Quite frankly, it seems like Cultivation should be the Almighty. It does fit much better with Vorin than any other guesses. After all, isn't current Vorin all about "cultivating" your talents and becoming better at what your good at? *Sigh* If only it were true. Unfortunately, the only reason we know of Cultivation's name is because the Almighty used it in third person. Why must solid fact come in the way of wild speculation? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luminos Posted November 5, 2010 Report Share Posted November 5, 2010 I can put this issue to rest ;D. Brandon told me at the Dallas signing for Towers of Midnight that the Almighty held Honor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Link Von Kelsier Harvey he/him Posted November 5, 2010 Report Share Posted November 5, 2010 Man, I would have asked him that if I hadn't thought I'd just be RAFO'd. Well, thanks for the information regardless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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