10/3/23 - Ace of Hearts - Everlasting Sunset Sub 9, 4801 words (L)

[Appol PhD they/he]

Hi everyone!

 

We're approaching the end of part 1 here, with this chapter being the last bit of buildup, and I'm curious to see what suggestions people have. Thanks as always!

[Mandamon he/him]

I think overall the plot is progressing well. There are a couple odd character things going on, mainly the relationship with A and her mother, and her lack of command of the soldiers (both commented on below) .

Mainly I think we just need some more information. This was originally described as having a steep learning curve, but I haven't seen any reason it needs to be. There are enough cool things going on with this world that it will take a while to explore them, and there are plenty of secrets. So completely explaining everything else will make it a lot more accessible. How do the soldiers/ministers arrive? Who are they fighting? Are there other people? How big is this place they're in? All these are not really needed for the main mysteries, but will make the story a lot easier to understand.

In all, I'm enjoying it, and looking forward to the next one!

Notes while reading:

pg 1: Why is she crying? Because of the injured soldier she doesn't know very well? Or something else?

pg 1: "But I’m not giving up on him. Not now, not ever.”
--So...what do they do with injured soldiers? Is it like a forced regeneration into a minister? Or do not all soldiers do that?

pg 2: Seems like there's a lot of people who might be sympathetic to change. I think knowing better what they're changing from will help.

pg 6: “I’m not going to punish him.”
--I think this is straying into an area where it is appropriate to punish him. These are still soldiers, and so far A has tried to be their friend. However she's also their commander, and they need to be ready to obey her orders in an instant. Where is she drawing the line with talking back and acting out?

pg 8: "vague promise of a better future they were never going to see."
--but I haven't really seen what the problem with the present is. We've been told the soldiers are mistreated, but this crew is mostly just hanging out, fighting monsters. They don't have any active campaigns against them.

pg 11: "That’s what happens to us when we reach hit eight years"
--Well that's new. Also seems to be unknown to A. Having her know some of these things, or be able to list the injustices happening to the soldiers will give some more credence to them being oppressed.

pg 12: "truly cruel and rotten to his core."
--eh, I'd say he's more devoted to his cause. A lot of revolutionaries are not nice people. That's for the ones that come after, because the cruel actions paved the way...

pg 13: these conversations with her mom are weird. It like the book changes from an epic fantasy to a YA suddenly. Usually someone commanding other people is not living under the roof of a parent still.

pg 13: still confused here. So all ministers were once soldiers, but not all soldiers get to be ministers? Or were not all ministers soldiers? Why just some of them?

pg 14: B doesn't react that A talked directly to the leader of the deserters? Or wondered how she was able to find him?

pg 16: "They just… appeared instead of being born out of wombs after receiving the queen’s blessing."
--that's...strange. Like appear out of thin air? Any particular place? Or just where needed?

pg 18: all the warrior/weapon notes are interesting, but I'm not sure how much readers would remember them. I guess it's not a surprise that the bureaucracy knows all about them, but I still don't really know how this system works. Are there other classes besides soldiers and ministers? Are there just regular people?

[Demiurgess she/her]

To begin with, I looked through Mandamon’s comments and I agree with them overall, especially about the learning curve. Clearly, there is a mystery to the story, but the mystery can be personal while the world is properly explored. If anything, it could help you create even more tension around the mystery. So far, it feels like you are withholding it all on purpose, but it doesn’t feel like it’s about the steep learning curve – more about not putting things into the text, when they could have been. You chose to limit us to the base where the soldiers are, probably to keep the mystery going. But for me, it feels like you are limiting us to the world, which I would love to explore more. I believe, the bigger the world you build, the more points of view you might need. But it is only my perspective.

As to this chapter, it definitely progresses the first part of the novel further. I loved the beginning. It is very emotional (though Mandamon has a point that she doesn’t know these soldiers that well. We might need more motivation here. Perhaps, she is projecting some of her memories/past feelings) and it felt like there were more mysteries there. But as the conversation progressed, I had more questions. What is the bureaucracy uptake on this? Do they keep soldiers that can’t fight? Or do they usually speed their reincarnations? Then I was confused because I thought A wanted to keep soldiers safe, but I also believed it was to help them move forward and away from the fight. And then there was a phrase about treating ministers with higher muscle mass, and I didn’t know what to think of it. We still know so little about the ministers.

p.4 I didn’t realise before that the deserters were hiding in the C.O. That’s cool. But I am curious about the mechanics of it. How is it possible?

P5. S’s accusations of N. were powerful and it was an interesting turn. I like how he used the younger soldiers as an argument. But it once again brought me back to the question about reincarnation. Obviously, dying is traumatic even if you are reborn later. But is there more to it?

P9. I loved the phrase when A thinks she’s sending three kids to their deaths. It’s a good reminder that soldiers are basically teenagers there at times.

P11. It’s one striking revelation about ministers executing soldiers when they reach their limit. But how is it all arranged? Aren’t there even the tiniest of rumours?

p.13 Aren’t Z’s attacks going to affect the civilians? Isn’t she worried for her mom? Or is the house that far away?

p.13. Her mom mentions that ministers remember being soldiers. And it didn’t sound like she was referring to A only. So, for her it wasn’t a secret. Why didn’t she tell A? And A isn’t surprised her mom knows that.

So far, I don’t understand this mother-daughter relationship well enough. It feels rather superficial at times.

P16: about being born from the womb vs just appearing. It’s a striking detail, but it doesn’t give you much information. I believe it would be great if all these details about soldiers and ministers and reincarnations were connected through their functionality or whatever differentiates the two.

Personally for me, the ending of the chapter was really heavy. I appreciate the novelty of the weapons. But there is no way I am going to remember all that. I tried to stop myself from skimming through those paragraphs and reading them properly. But for me, the important things were A’s comments and how she is going to use it. Also, there is this whole change of mood, when suddenly everybody is there to help A. Have they been testing her earlier to see whether they can trust her? Because we didn’t see it, it all feels a bit out of the blue and suspicious.

 

[Appol PhD they/he]

Thanks @Mandamon and @Demiurgess! I know I'm not consistent about replying in these threads but I've really appreciated both of your comments all throughout the story!

It's good to have a list of questions that need more explanation early on (and honestly it's heartening to know that the worldbuilding isn't fundamentally that complicated to the point that a bit of explanation will clear things up). My goal for revision will be to set up the minister/soldier system in a way that feels like it makes sense internally while having the sex/gender discussion still be a gradual build up for A.

[Silk she/her]

As I read:

“What exactly are you implying?” Since the healer seems to imply suggesting the summary execution of an injured soldier, I’m wondering, is this something A would expect? Or is this shocking even in the context of soldiers who are generally poorly treated? I think there’s room for more of a reaction shot here.

I’d also be curious to get more of a reaction from the healer herself. Does she think A is an eccentric and is just humoring her because she’s so insistent (or because of her position, or whatever else) or is she also sympathetic to A’s cause?

P3 “…by the time training ended” how much time has passed here? An afternoon? Overnight?

“Aren’t the deserters supposed to attack before long?” wasn’t the timeline supposed to be secret?

P5 “Execute me, like what she should do to you?” Because he… lost a fight?

I guess this is somewhat explained in the paragraph below, given S’s belief that they’re now doomed, but the reaction still feels like a lot. Maybe that tension (or the standard procedure for dealing with wounded soldiers, if that is a factor here) just needs to be brought to the fore a little more.

P7 “N didn’t look surprised.” I had entirely forgotten he was there. I suppose a page of other people talking about him like he isn’t there tracks with the way soldiers are treated, though.

“...before Her Majesty’s time.” Is this referring to the queen, or to L? From conversation above it seems to be the latter, but how much sway does L have over these things? Isn’t she supposed to be quite young?

P10 “I want to propose a deal to him.” Oh, interesting. Not at all what I thought, but probably a better solution than trying to persuade P back. I like it!”

“...we fight nonlethally.” Less sure about that, though. Wouldn’t it make more sense to try and negotiate a ceasefire as opposed to a show fight?

P11 “That’s what happens to us when we hit eight years…” Interesting.

“...tearing out weeds in her mom’s garden.” Still struggling a bit with the setup of the island, whether the land the soldiers are defending is the same land where A’s mom lives, that kind of question. Partially I’m wondering about physical geography, but it’s also a question of stakes. Is it only the soldiers’ lives that are on the line if they fail to repel the deserters? (Which, to be clear, I think that can be enough!) or is A’s home, family, etc. also at risk here?

P13 “It was easier… when I thought that the ministry was right.” I think this is the first time we’ve seen A note this as a shift in her thinking, rather than something she’s always believed.

“...even ones who remember being soldiers…” this, plus the scene with M from the chapter before, make it seem like this is a much more common phenomenon than when it was first introduced. In the earliest chapters I had the impression that A was unique) or had reason to think she was) on this front.

P14 “The deserters are attacking tomorrow.” A always seems to be the last person to get this intelligence. But also, this is more or less expected, yes? We already knew they were going to be attacking soon. Unless B is indicating here that they’re moving even more quickly than first thought.

I found myself skimming a bit through the descriptions of the weapons etc. Partly I wondered how much difference this level of detail actually makes in terms of informing the fights—the roles of the various soldiers, etc. seem to be fairly uniform even if individuals manifest different weapons—but mostly I didn’t feel a lot of added tension from this section, because we’ve already been so convinced that A is outmatched/outgunned. This could be tightened up, maybe, but I think what would help most is something that adds a bit of progression – maybe there is something in there that makes A think she can win after all, maybe there is something that further develops the intrigue (how did B get this information? Why does the ministry have it and not share it? How valid is it? Etc).

Overall: My thoughts are pretty similar to the others at this point, I think more concrete information about the story and setting is going to make the story much easier to follow, and if anything I think they will serve to make the main mysteries more compelling rather than less, since will have a better grounding from which to get invested in the actual storyline. I’d also agree with @Mandamon that I really don’t understand the relationship between A and her mother.

On 10/4/2023 at 10:12 AM, Mandamon said:

pg 12: "truly cruel and rotten to his core."
--eh, I'd say he's more devoted to his cause. A lot of revolutionaries are not nice people. That's for the ones that come after, because the cruel actions paved the way...

Agreed. He certainly talks like a moustache-twirling villain (and I had the impression that this was performative, at least in part), but we as readers don't have the information to come to this conclusion and neither does A.

On 10/6/2023 at 4:12 AM, Demiurgess said:

P9. I loved the phrase when A thinks she’s sending three kids to their deaths. It’s a good reminder that soldiers are basically teenagers there at times.

I agree! stuff like this works well.