What illness could Jasnah have had?

[Stick The Savant]

We know that Jasnah had an illness as a child and it is heavily implied that she was treated with the "Methods" of the day from quotes such as this one from WoR: 

"Jasnah stared at that shadow—skin growing clammy, stomach clenched, the way she felt when she was about to vomit. Not again. She searched for another light source. A reason. Could she find a reason? No." 

assuming her perceived mental illness isn't a result of bonding Ivory or being influenced by investiture in any major way, are there any mental illnesses which would fit her situation?

 

[alder24]

5 hours ago, Stick The Savant said:

We know that Jasnah had an illness as a child and it is heavily implied that she was treated with the "Methods" of the day from quotes such as this one from WoR: 

"Jasnah stared at that shadow—skin growing clammy, stomach clenched, the way she felt when she was about to vomit. Not again. She searched for another light source. A reason. Could she find a reason? No." 

assuming her perceived mental illness isn't a result of bonding Ivory or being influenced by investiture in any major way, are there any mental illnesses which would fit her situation?

We probably won't know what will happen there for a long time, until Jasnah's book will be released. From Coppermind:

Quote

At about ages twelve to thirteen, Jasnah suffered from a case of lunacy.^[16] When Jasnah reflects on this period of time, she remembers a dark room and screaming her voice ragged. According to her, this was when she learned that people she loved could still hurt her.^[15]

Bigger quote from WoR prologue:

Quote

Her shadow was pointing in the wrong direction.
The stuffy, shuffling, chattering room seemed to grow distant. Highprince Sadeas walked right through the shadow, which quite distinctly pointed toward the sphere lamp on the wall nearby. Engaged in conversation with his companion, Sadeas didn’t notice. Jasnah stared at that shadow—skin growing clammy, stomach clenched, the way she felt when she was about to vomit. Not again. She searched for another light source. A reason. Could she find a reason? No.
The shadow languidly melted back toward her, oozing to her feet and then stretching out the other way. Her tension eased. But had anyone else seen?
[...]
Jasnah composed herself. What did these episodes of hers mean? Superstitious folktales she’d read said that misbehaving shadows meant you were cursed. She usually dismissed such things as nonsense, but some superstitions were rooted in fact. Her other experiences proved that. She would need to investigate further.
The calm, scholarly thoughts felt like a lie compared to the truth of her cold, clammy skin and the sweat trickling down the back of her neck. But it was important to be rational at all times, not just when calm. She forced herself out through the doors, leaving the muggy room for the quiet hallway

This seems to indicate that it wasn’t the first time she saw this type of shadow, and her feelings were because logic failed to find a reasonable explanation for what was happening to her. Her childhood illness might be related, but more as a reminder of what she experienced back then - dark room, screaming and unreliable mind - not this being the symptoms of this illness.

OB ch 47:

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Jasnah settled back, listening to the three spanreeds scratching paper, writing out notes that—she feared—would mostly be irrelevant. Something stirred deep within her. Glimmers of memory from a dark room, screaming her voice ragged. A childhood illness nobody else seemed to remember, for all it had done to her.
It had taught her that people she loved could still hurt her.
“Have you ever wondered how it would feel to lose your sanity, Ivory?”
Ivory nodded. “I have wondered this. How could I not? Considering what the ancient fathers are.”
“You call me logical,” Jasnah whispered. “It’s untrue, as I let my passions rule me as much as many. In my times of peace, however, my mind has always been the one thing I could rely upon.”
Except once.

It's hard to say anything, but I personally believe there was no illness at all, just Gavilar doing terrible things to her for some selfish reason. Maybe she bonded with Ivory so early and started to act weirdly, or maybe she declared herself an atheist and Gavilar tried to root it out of her with those cruel methods. Or maybe this was some cruel experiment trying to find out if he can make somebody into a Radiant if that person is close enough to death or suffers a lot (like Teft's parents, members of Envisagers, who were a splinter group of the Sons of Honor). She couldn’t understand why her father, a person she loved and a person who should love her, did such terrible things to her and her reasoning and logic failed her this one time. 

[Firesong she/her]

Stormlight 5 preview spoilers, as one preview mentions this:

Spoiler

She talked about being locked up in soft handcuffs in a padded room. So it was definitely something that caused her severe enough panic to require restraining her, enough that they even needed to make the handcuffs soft so she wouldn't hurt herself on them. 

On 9/29/2023 at 6:48 AM, alder24 said:

It's hard to say anything, but I personally believe there was no illness at all, just Gavilar doing terrible things to her for some selfish reason. Maybe she bonded with Ivory so early and started to act weirdly, or maybe she declared herself an atheist and Gavilar tried to root it out of her with those cruel methods. Or maybe this was some cruel experiment trying to find out if he can make somebody into a Radiant if that person is close enough to death or suffers a lot (like Teft's parents, members of Envisagers, who were a splinter group of the Sons of Honor). She couldn’t understand why her father, a person she loved and a person who should love her, did such terrible things to her and her reasoning and logic failed her this one time. 

While I wouldn't put it past him at all, the dude sucks. I don't think it was him doing it for any esoteric reason like the Sons of Honor, iirc, they didn't exist at the time, and also, Gavilar didn't really start looking into all of that until around a year before his death, as far as we know. So I don't think it was that.

I also don't think it was Ivory bonding to her, as she was shown to be really freaked out by all of Ivory's shenanigans in the WoR prologue, which was 6 years before WoK, thus happened far after that. At most, she could have tried to bond, broke it off, and it is all hidden deep in her mind as some sort of dissociative amnesia of sorts to protect herself from trauma. 

On her being punished for being an atheist though, yeah, that is possible. Gavilar sucks enough to be the type to do that. 

But, I think it might be an actual manic episode, currently. 

Edited September 30, 2023 by Firesong

[alder24]

11 hours ago, Firesong said:

Stormlight 5 preview spoilers, as one preview mentions this:

  Hide contents

She talked about being locked up in soft handcuffs in a padded room. So it was definitely something that caused her severe enough panic to require restraining her, enough that they even needed to make the handcuffs soft so she wouldn't hurt herself on them. 

SA 5 spoilers:

Spoiler

It could be the reason or not, it was vague enough so we can't say for sure why she was restrained. Quote:

Quote

She curled up at that thought, listening to the quiet sounds of Urithiru. Water in the pipes, moving of its own accord. Air whispering as it was pumped through vents. Voices echoing far outside, despite the late hour. Trembling there, she realized, finally, why she hated this mattress so much. It reminded her of the soft restraints they’d given her when she’d been young. When those who loved her had taken away her own freedom for her own good. Those terrible months that basically everyone had forgotten about as an anomaly. Except by Jasnah, who would never forget.

 

 

11 hours ago, Firesong said:

Sons of Honor, iirc, they didn't exist at the time

The Sons of Honor are way older than Jasnah, Teft reported Envisagers to authorities when he was 8, he was in his fifties at the end, and Envisagers originated from the Sons of Honor.

11 hours ago, Firesong said:

Gavilar didn't really start looking into all of that until around a year before his death, as far as we know. So I don't think it was that.

It's really hard to say. Gavilar started to talk about the importance of words and Radiants in OB ch 49, 23 years ago, when Jasnah was 12 and was suffering, so he definitely started receiving visions around this time or even earlier, and I wouldn’t be surprised if he already had some contact with the Sons of Honor or was a member of them. But we have no clear timeline of this and nothing solid on when he met the Sons of Honor. OB ch 49:

Quote

“It’s your daughter,” Dalinar guessed. “Her lunacy.”
“Jasnah is fine, and recovering. It’s not that.”

[...]

The fire’s embers seemed to pulse like a heartbeat. “Do you ever wonder about the time when this kingdom was truly great, Dalinar?” Gavilar asked. “When people looked to the Alethi. When kings sought their advice. When we were … Radiant.”
[...]
“Words are important,” Gavilar said. “Much more than you give them credit for being.”
“Perhaps,” Dalinar said. “But if they were all-powerful, you wouldn’t need my sword, would you?”
“Perhaps. I can’t help feeling words would be enough, if only I knew the right ones to say.

 

11 hours ago, Firesong said:

I also don't think it was Ivory bonding to her, as she was shown to be really freaked out by all of Ivory's shenanigans in the WoR prologue, which was 6 years before WoK, thus happened far after that. At most, she could have tried to bond, broke it off, and it is all hidden deep in her mind as some sort of dissociative amnesia of sorts to protect herself from trauma. 

I was rather suggesting that those episodes that came from Ivory, like wrong shadows, or her seeing stuff, had been happening to her since childhood, without any strong bond between them. 

[Firesong she/her]

2 hours ago, alder24 said:

The Sons of Honor are way older than Jasnah, Teft reported Envisagers to authorities when he was 8, he was in his fifties at the end, and Envisagers originated from the Sons of Honor.

 

Oh yeah, that's right. I was mixing that up with when Amaram joined them, I think. Because, yeah, that was a thing. My bad. 

[Duxredux he/him]

On 9/29/2023 at 5:48 AM, alder24 said:

"A childhood illness nobody else seemed to remember, for all it had done to her."

This line makes me think Jasnah's lunacy is supernatural in origin. I can believe Gavilar might do something like this to Jasnah, but I have a harder time believing Navani would have forgotten this if Gavilar was at fault. Navani, who bemoaned that Jasnah withdrew from her and didn't really allow her to be her mother, does not remember this childhood illness as a factor for their emotional distance.

The fact that no one in the royal palace but Jasnah remembers this period of her life has me leaning towards not just just glimpses unto Shadesmar or the beginning of bonding a spren, but maybe one of the Unmade was at work. Maybe one of the ones we don't know much about like Dai-Gonarthis or Chemoarish.

Quote

Questioner

Was Shallan's family, during her childhood, being influenced by an Unmade?

Brandon Sanderson

Um, yes.

Questioner

Was it the corrupting--

Brandon Sanderson

I'll RAFO that, but yes, there is some external influence there. 

JordanCon 2018 (April 22, 2018)

Maybe it was whatever Unmade that was making House Davar weird and wrong. Jasnah is 17 years older than Shallan, so that's plenty of time for an Unmade to mess up the home of one of the most powerful families on Roshar before moving over to wreck another home and childhood. If it is the same Unmade that made Jasnah and Shallan's childhoods broken, there could be interesting some interesting relationship dynamic and conflict resolution bringing them to work together more closely again in Jasnah's book. Shallan has serious memory issues and perhaps not all of it is repression if memory alteration is present for Jasnah's case as well. There could be some cool story telling devices and role reversals ahead of Shallan has to teach Jasnah how to identify personal truth from falsehood.

[Frustration]

On 9/29/2023 at 5:48 AM, alder24 said:

It's hard to say anything, but I personally believe there was no illness at all, just Gavilar doing terrible things to her for some selfish reason. Maybe she bonded with Ivory so early and started to act weirdly, or maybe she declared herself an atheist and Gavilar tried to root it out of her with those cruel methods. Or maybe this was some cruel experiment trying to find out if he can make somebody into a Radiant if that person is close enough to death or suffers a lot (like Teft's parents, members of Envisagers, who were a splinter group of the Sons of Honor). She couldn’t understand why her father, a person she loved and a person who should love her, did such terrible things to her and her reasoning and logic failed her this one time. 

Jasnah didn't declare atheism until the feast where Gavilar died, and she was a child at the time, Elhokar hadn't even been born yet.

[alder24]

26 minutes ago, Frustration said:

Jasnah didn't declare atheism until the feast where Gavilar died, and she was a child at the time, Elhokar hadn't even been born yet.

True, but it isn't about public declaration of atheism, it's about something private. If she just started to doubt Vorinism, telling her father that Almighty isn't that mighty, he doesn't make any logical sense or she doesn't believe in him - just in private, between the two of them, Gavilar might have overreacted and done terrible things to her. Just an idea.