Ravenclawjedi42 Posted September 29, 2023 Report Share Posted September 29, 2023 1 hour ago, Araris Valerian said: TKN is my only solid village read right now. He's definitely a Soother, and I can't see the elims having 2 of those. I seem to remember you being very mistrustful of him last game. Did I miss something? Or was this a mistake? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Araris Valerian Posted September 29, 2023 Report Share Posted September 29, 2023 8 minutes ago, Ravenclawjedi42 said: I seem to remember you being very mistrustful of him last game. Did I miss something? Or was this a mistake? You’re right, I was mistrustful of him. But it turns out, his info on how Soothers work is how we caught Wiz. Hence, he’s my strongest village read. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aeoryi Posted September 30, 2023 Report Share Posted September 30, 2023 1 hour ago, Araris Valerian said: I mean, I personally consider murder the highest form of respect around here, so don't let that get in your way . This list makes me quite suspicious of DeTess, actually. It seems implausible to me that the village would have both a Thug and a Lurcher in this small of a game. The only mechanical confirmation of her role is the lack of the C1 kill, which is looking more and more like a variation on a WGG to me. Actually, not sure if I buy Fifth's claim either. Having 3 Tineyes in an 11-player game is functionally the same as having 0 Tineyes and PMs just always open. Since open PMs generally benefit the village, in the world where I'm elim my role is actively detrimental to my team (especially given my lack of PM manipulation in my prior elim games). Aeoryi's Thug claim is also unconfirmed, and seems odd, because it makes her the only player in the game with 2 roles, while there are (apparently) 2 vanilla players. Given the lack of village kill roles, Thug seems like it would autoconfirm someone as village, which is a balance issue for someone with a bonus life. Vanilla can only be confirmed by terminal Seeking, so there is no reason to trust that Raven is actually vanilla. TKN is my only solid village read right now. He's definitely a Soother, and I can't see the elims having 2 of those. If I get exed today, I'd ask you guys to exe DeTess first and then Aeoryi if DeTess flips green. There's no way both of them are village. Edit: I have to add the significant caveat that trying to guess the mind of the GM is generally a bad idea. But IDK where else to go with this Let me explain this to you: I do not have a 2nd life. Quite unfortunate, tbh, but in general, thugs normally have an extra life. However, the thug ability allows me to target one player and change their alignment on the list. The reason why I lied about the second life was so that way elims wouldn't kill me, or would at least be hesitant to do so. I was really concerned that revealing the list and my role that I was going to die if the list had some relative value to elims. Especially since they killed mat that same cycle. I'll give you a rundown on how the thug ability worked the last few cycles: C2- Mat targeted TKN (green to red), I targeted archer (red to green) C3- Mat targeted araris. I couldn't target anyone (muted). C4- I targeted TKN. DeTess is the least likely to be elim imo. Since lynches and nks are the same ooa, I think that the lurch can block lynch? @Experience can you confirm? Besides, Tess is the only person I trust here. Well, if we vote out Araris, then if PMs go down, Fifth is next. Also, there have been 4 Tineye claimed, 3 of them confirmed. Mat was a Tineye, archer was a Tineye, Fifth and you have both claimed Tineye. Ravenclawjedi42's Vanilla claim was actually C1. We role exchanged in a PM, and he said set vanilla. I'm still confused, since for most of the game Tess, archer, and I have been relatively village (excuse my very cringe C1- I blame it on me being new) and you want to Exe BOTH of us? Kinda suspicious. TKN is village to me, but kinda cold? I don't know how to explain it, but I highly suspect it's because they should be village I just don't have enough posts to tell for sure, but that's average TKN gameplay. So yeah. You're the most sus rn, and then fifth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Araris Valerian Posted September 30, 2023 Report Share Posted September 30, 2023 31 minutes ago, Aeoryi said: Ravenclawjedi42's Vanilla claim was actually C1. We role exchanged in a PM, and he said set vanilla. And you trust a C1 roleclaim? 32 minutes ago, Aeoryi said: TKN is village to me, but kinda cold? I don't know how to explain it, but I highly suspect it's because they should be village I just don't have enough posts to tell for sure, but that's average TKN gameplay. The only way TKN is elim is if he's deliberately throwing the game and our GM decided to give the elims 2 Soothers. 33 minutes ago, Aeoryi said: I do not have a 2nd life. Quite unfortunate, tbh, but in general, thugs normally have an extra life. However, the thug ability allows me to target one player and change their alignment on the list. Again, we have to take your word for this, you've given no proof. However, based on you claiming not to have an extra life I'd probably exe Raven over you. 35 minutes ago, Aeoryi said: DeTess is the least likely to be elim imo. Are you familiar with a WGG? It's where the elims attack a teammate in order to give said teammate trust. Usually the giveaway is when that person never gets attacked again. Based on DeTess's original claim (which apparently was a lie; glad some people are being careful), the elims could have removed her protection by having Wiz Soothe her. But that never happened, which I believe suggests that she just is elim. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aeoryi Posted September 30, 2023 Report Share Posted September 30, 2023 9 minutes ago, Araris Valerian said: And you trust a C1 roleclaim? The only way TKN is elim is if he's deliberately throwing the game and our GM decided to give the elims 2 Soothers. Again, we have to take your word for this, you've given no proof. However, based on you claiming not to have an extra life I'd probably exe Raven over you. Are you familiar with a WGG? It's where the elims attack a teammate in order to give said teammate trust. Usually the giveaway is when that person never gets attacked again. Based on DeTess's original claim (which apparently was a lie; glad some people are being careful), the elims could have removed her protection by having Wiz Soothe her. But that never happened, which I believe suggests that she just is elim. A WGG? Also, your role is the most shifty. Another Tineye? After Archer claimed ribeye? And with fifth claiming ribeye (which I believe much more), your claim just looked like (C3) "Archer's gonna die anyway so I'm a tineye if you kill me you damn yourself." Which makes my initial hesitation to kill you go away drastically. I agree raven looks bad, but they've just been voting with majority and not really been analyzing the game (or if so, not finding strong enough points). They're a new player. If e!Raven they're gonna be a lot better, more informed, and probably more careful of what they say, since they'd have the guidance of a older player. DeTess doing a WGG is kinda a weird line of thought that honestly feels like a tunnel. While you are right that no one is technically "confirmed", we should be looking at the Unconfirmed players more than the confirmed players. Otherwise, we become paranoid. TKN is confirmed, yes. I was just commenting on how I personally felt about TKN. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Araris Valerian Posted September 30, 2023 Report Share Posted September 30, 2023 Archer believed my Tineye claim. An elim being a Tineye has never, in my many many games of SE, been reason for the village to not exe them (at least to me knowledge). So there's no reason to believe I would use the claim for that now. And so far as I can tell, there's no role stuff left worth hiding to make PMs valuable anyways. I didn't realize there was role stuff worth hiding at all until you said claimed following Mat's death. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aeoryi Posted September 30, 2023 Report Share Posted September 30, 2023 9 minutes ago, Araris Valerian said: Archer believed my Tineye claim. An elim being a Tineye has never, in my many many games of SE, been reason for the village to not exe them (at least to me knowledge). So there's no reason to believe I would use the claim for that now. And so far as I can tell, there's no role stuff left worth hiding to make PMs valuable anyways. I didn't realize there was role stuff worth hiding at all until you said claimed following Mat's death. I mean, my points to Araris as to why we shouldn't exe you over wiz was: - Detrimental to the village if he is a Tineye, which if archer gets NK'd (which did indeed happen) then would knock out communication all together. This is now not a good point, since fifth claimed Tineye. - A more talkative Elim is better than a silent Elim. When you suspect people, them staying silent (pulling a wizard) makes it annoyingly hard to analyze them. If they talk more, it is way easier to catch them on a slip-up later on. - Wiz might bus Araris, or use vote manip to save themselves, since a Tineye Elim dying would be better than a soother Elim dying. -I don't think Araris is as elimmy as wiz. This one actually turned out correctly... probably? Also, since you hopefully didn't know, the plan was to get you or wiz in red, TKN to be green, and the other person (between you and wiz) dead. Originally, we were gonna do a split with (3) Araris, (2) wiz, but then decided (3) wiz and (2) Araris. I think I PM'd that to DeTess. So yeah. But my vote remains on you until I find a more sus to vote on (since I don't want to vote Fifth for something that JNV did, or rather, didn't do). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Araris Valerian Posted September 30, 2023 Report Share Posted September 30, 2023 1 minute ago, Aeoryi said: - Detrimental to the village if he is a Tineye, which if archer gets NK'd (which did indeed happen) then would knock out communication all together. This is now not a good point, since fifth claimed Tineye. This is silly. It doesn't help the village at all to be talking in PMs rather than in the thread. There is a single elim left and their action has to be spent on the kill, so they can't interfere with plots. And all the role info seems to be pretty public at this point. 3 minutes ago, Aeoryi said: I mean, my points to Araris as to why we shouldn't exe you over wiz was: This doesn't address why I'm the person being compared to Wizard versus Fifth/Raven (and I'd add DeTess as well though you disagree) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aeoryi Posted September 30, 2023 Report Share Posted September 30, 2023 26 minutes ago, Araris Valerian said: This is silly. It doesn't help the village at all to be talking in PMs rather than in the thread. There is a single elim left and their action has to be spent on the kill, so they can't interfere with plots. And all the role info seems to be pretty public at this point. This doesn't address why I'm the person being compared to Wizard versus Fifth/Raven (and I'd add DeTess as well though you disagree) I meant archer, my bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeTess Posted September 30, 2023 Report Share Posted September 30, 2023 (edited) So, @Araris Valerian, just to confirm... You believe the elims could puppet JNV's actions, or that wizard (edit:meant raven, keep confusing their names) and/or me decided to bus wizard when V!araris was an alternative? Edited September 30, 2023 by DeTess Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Araris Valerian Posted September 30, 2023 Report Share Posted September 30, 2023 (edited) I didn’t see myself as a serious alternative to the exe last cycle. Maybe I’m wrong, but something tells me Archer and/or TKN would have switched onto Wiz if more votes had ended up on me. Good point about Fifth/JNV though, I’d forgotten about the action economy. It’s hard for me to say how the GM/IM would have responded if half the elim team was inactive. Edit: Do we actually know there is a 1 action per cycle limit? Seems that literally nobody but the elims would be impacted. Edited September 30, 2023 by Araris Valerian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeTess Posted September 30, 2023 Report Share Posted September 30, 2023 2 hours ago, Araris Valerian said: Edit: Do we actually know there is a 1 action per cycle limit? Seems that literally nobody but the elims would be impacted. I think we got that pafo'd, so technically if it isn't there than an evil JNV/fifth becomes more of a possibility. Regarding the lynch last cycle though, the initial plan for last cycle as shared by Archer in his PM's was to execute you first. I think it was me that actually dragged it around to going after wizard first before you, mostly because with how things stood last cycle, I couldn't justify not clearing the TKN/wizard opposition first. Aeoryi had raised that possibility as well in our PM's. Like, the intent had been to execute you, and have wizard second to flip them red, which then changed to taking wizard down first, and turning you red by putting you in second. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Araris Valerian Posted September 30, 2023 Report Share Posted September 30, 2023 My understanding is that the colors on the list don't matter anymore. Why is there a plot to get certain people to be certain colors? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aeoryi Posted September 30, 2023 Report Share Posted September 30, 2023 19 minutes ago, Araris Valerian said: My understanding is that the colors on the list don't matter anymore. Why is there a plot to get certain people to be certain colors? Uh, because archer thought that if we have the two "elims" in red, it's a hidden win con. Totally reasonable, and we decided to try it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Araris Valerian Posted September 30, 2023 Report Share Posted September 30, 2023 Hmm. Well, maybe it is a hidden win con. Not sure why that discussion needed to happen in PMs rather than in the thread though. That sort of thing can lead to folks feeling excluded, and I’m not sure I see the merits of keeping it a secret. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aeoryi Posted September 30, 2023 Report Share Posted September 30, 2023 3 minutes ago, Araris Valerian said: Hmm. Well, maybe it is a hidden win con. Not sure why that discussion needed to happen in PMs rather than in the thread though. That sort of thing can lead to folks feeling excluded, and I’m not sure I see the merits of keeping it a secret. Well, there was a way to jeopardize the whole plan, if wiz found out he could tie TKN and Araris, and that would screw things over Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Araris Valerian Posted September 30, 2023 Report Share Posted September 30, 2023 Perhaps. It’s just never sat well with me when people are trying to manipulate the exe through PMs (except elims, they are supposed to do that). The exe is supposed to be the part of the game that everyone gets to participate in. It can leave a bad feeling in some folks’ mouths when they learn everything is being run behind the scenes without their knowledge/consent. And I think those feelings are justified for villagers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aeoryi Posted September 30, 2023 Report Share Posted September 30, 2023 14 minutes ago, Araris Valerian said: Perhaps. It’s just never sat well with me when people are trying to manipulate the exe through PMs (except elims, they are supposed to do that). The exe is supposed to be the part of the game that everyone gets to participate in. It can leave a bad feeling in some folks’ mouths when they learn everything is being run behind the scenes without their knowledge/consent. And I think those feelings are justified for villagers. I agree, but we can't really change the past right now. Araris Valerian I need a vote count. I feel like something is seriously missing here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Araris Valerian Posted September 30, 2023 Report Share Posted September 30, 2023 1 minute ago, Aeoryi said: I agree, but we can't really change the past right now. Araris Valerian I need a vote count. I feel like something is seriously missing here. I think it’s: Araris (2): DeTess, Raven DeTess (1): Araris No Vote (3): Aeoryi, Fifth, TKN Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aeoryi Posted September 30, 2023 Report Share Posted September 30, 2023 Just now, Araris Valerian said: I think it’s: Araris (2): DeTess, Raven DeTess (1): Araris No Vote (3): Aeoryi, Fifth, TKN I suspect I'm gonna get NK'd soon. So are you okay to vote raven? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Araris Valerian Posted September 30, 2023 Report Share Posted September 30, 2023 2 minutes ago, Aeoryi said: I suspect I'm gonna get NK'd soon. So are you okay to vote raven? I'd vote Raven over my own death, but I (obviously) prefer DeTess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aeoryi Posted September 30, 2023 Report Share Posted September 30, 2023 Just now, Araris Valerian said: I'd vote Raven over my own death, but I (obviously) prefer DeTess. Lemme PM fifth. I suspect raven, because there's a good chance that wiz told him "just stay under the radar, follow what others do" Ravenclawjedi42 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Experience Posted September 30, 2023 Author Report Share Posted September 30, 2023 Just over 4 hours left in the cycle! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Araris Valerian Posted September 30, 2023 Report Share Posted September 30, 2023 Well, like I said, I'll switch from DeTess to Raven to save myself. But I feel somewhat strongly about the former being elim. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Unknown Ajah Posted September 30, 2023 Report Share Posted September 30, 2023 Can't really talk right now, but want to do my best to insure an Araris exe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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